Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
i had a nice and important thought.
But yeah, been clear for a while hasn't it that the initial 'oh fuck this is scary' was not going to see us through the marathon.
Yeah and my oft repeated mistake is assuming logic and/or collective responsibility will work for everyone and then getting annoyed when they don't.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not to mention your f keyYeah and my opt repeated mistake is assuming logic and/or collective responsibility will work for everyone and then getting annoyed when they don't.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
How lucky you are you haven't ever found out how long fear can last for
bimble
floofy
Its not for this thread but i think we have enough information to know that even in the most extreme circumstances, like inside the camps or in a war where you know that you might die any moment or tomorrow morning, people adjust and a certain kind of normal asserts itself, small things become important again, life continues etc.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you don't need to think of Kolyma or Belsen.
I was thinking of more banal lives of fear which can be found behind many front doors
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
There's plenty of fear lasting in my schoolkids who are scared of killing their grandmothers, who are sometimes their carers.
The reason fear isn't lasting for some people is that, to them, nothing has happened. They don't know anyone who has had Covid because even though action was taken lamentably late it still did prevent a much worse scenario happening where even more than 50,000 died and the NHS collapsed. And of those 50,000 deaths how many times have you heard the justifiers of inaction saying "Yeah, but it's just in care homes".
Because, on the whole, compared to some countries and cultures, we don't GAF about old people in this country. It's why we have care homes in the first place. And if it's 'only happening to the aged', then where's the fear for the majority?
Fear lasts. You just need something tangible to be fearful of.
The reason fear isn't lasting for some people is that, to them, nothing has happened. They don't know anyone who has had Covid because even though action was taken lamentably late it still did prevent a much worse scenario happening where even more than 50,000 died and the NHS collapsed. And of those 50,000 deaths how many times have you heard the justifiers of inaction saying "Yeah, but it's just in care homes".
Because, on the whole, compared to some countries and cultures, we don't GAF about old people in this country. It's why we have care homes in the first place. And if it's 'only happening to the aged', then where's the fear for the majority?
Fear lasts. You just need something tangible to be fearful of.
Seymour addresses this in his latest mail-out - think he's about right tbh: there was collective responsibility, but it's been squandered by the government. Interesting points about the pivot to more punitive measures.Yeah and my oft repeated mistake is assuming logic and/or collective responsibility will work for everyone and then getting annoyed when they don't.
Consider the situation in the UK now. The British government is likely to be forced into a second lockdown. But why? Why is so much of the country already under lockdown? Why are students being locked down on campus? Because the government wasted the time it bought with the first lockdown, then ignored its own scientific advisors to practically abolish social distancing and aggressively reopen the most dangerous disease vectors well in advance of having developed a proper testing and tracing system. And now it's rolling out a series of punitive fines for people who don't adhere to social distancing, or self-isolate when they have symptoms of Covid-19. They claim that this is because of a small minority ruining it for the majority who adhere to the rules. It might have been true back in April that the majority adhered to the rules: but that's exactly why the government didn't need large fines. It's definitely not the case now. Why? One reason is that serial fuck-ups, the Cummings debacle, the contradictory messaging, and the official drive to force people back to work, have systematically lowered people's vigilance over the last few months. Another is that the withdrawal of economic support means there's little incentive for a precarious worker or a small business owner to self-isolate. Hence the resort to fines.
SlideshowBob
Active Member
What's even more grating about this is the people who don't care about lockdowns now are (crudely speaking) the exact political groupings who are usually outraged whenever anyone says anything mildly critical about old people in general.
sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
Do you have to do this?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I agree with quite a lot of your post but not this bit. Just because old people don't live in the same house as you doesn't mean you aren't bothered about them or that you aren't supporting them.
I know I've said this before, but I think the level of support available from the government really is the key issue. If they put together an adequate support package for people and businesses, people would take it much more seriously. As it is, their response to the new wave is totally inadequate, so why would anyone take them seriously - how can anyone afford to take them seriously?
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
I'm not saying that everyone in a care home doesn't have someone who supports them (but perhaps can't support them adequately for good reason). Capitalism puts pressures on us all. But I do think care homes are a sign of the commodification of the elderly, a drive for profit in other people's misery. A gap in a market. And the market exists, at least in part, for a reason not unconnected to our view of old people.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Do you have to do that, are you incapable of saying what you object to?
In retrospect I'd have phrased it perhaps differently but the central point stands, that fear isn't necessarily a transient emotion, it is something that can be felt for years, it is something that can be the core emotional experience of people's lives. We're all fortunate if we've never experienced fear of that quality or duration
"The auldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear"
--H.P. Lovecraft
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bimble
floofy
I think thats all true, then there's the longer story of the rise of the nuclear family (instead of extended families living together) all contributing to the way that old people are increasingly out of sight and elsewhere.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
It's absolutely grim in any business that relies on tourism, crowds, or events right now and I'm not sure the government quite grasps that not everyone in those industries is under 30 and living in London.
Don't think getting an A levels going to help a middle aged roadie.
Miliband (Ed, not the other one! 
) is really good
I've thought this for ages.
) is really good I've thought this for ages.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
TBF, Tuesday's figures often are, picking-up the lag from the weekend, having said that 71 deaths is almost twice that of Tue. 22nd, which was 37.
I prefer the 7-day rolling average figures, which are fairly grim too, Tue 15th - 11, Tue 29th - 35, more than tripling in 2 weeks.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
The positive test results are scaring me more than the deaths.TBF, Tuesday's figures often are, picking-up the lag from the weekend, having said that 71 deaths is almost twice that of Tue. 22nd, which was 37.
I prefer the 7-day rolling average figures, which are fairly grim too, Tue 15th - 11, Tue 29th - 35, more than tripling in 2 weeks.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I think unless the government stumps up the cash (and even then) we are unlikely to have people follow a second lockdown in the same way they did the first. There's a lot less fear and more scepticism about it this time around including from people I wouldn't have expected to agree with those sort of arguments.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah I agree, although I think financial stuff is only one reason why some people don't follow it. And it's the same for me, I know people that were very strict first time around that are much less so now. I guess if it gets really bad people will change quickly though...?
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
Yes as a guide to how things are going, again taking the average figure of 4189 on Tue 22nd, to 6086 yesterday, at least they are not doubling weekly, they are up by around 45%.
And, they can't be compared to March, because of the massive increase in testing, remember the estimate was over 100,000 cases a day back then, the ONS survey tends to suggest actual cases now are running at about twice those being picked by pillar 1 & 2 testing, so around 12,000 a day. A lot more younger people, and mild or asymptomatic cases, are being picked up by both pillar 1 & 2 testing, and the ONS surveillance testing (pillar 4) survey.
It's bad, and heading in the wrong direction, but not as bad as some projections, or as bad as headline figures can suggest.
Yup
I have no 'scepticism' about this but have relaxed a fair bit. Still wearing the mask, washing hands and sanitising after things but have found myself a little less vigilant (alert
) when out and about. Have only been in a few pubs since March, all of which were well distanced and organised.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yeah I mean I'm not one to talk tbh, been in a few pubs and a Chinese restaurant since they reopened, plus in person services at the synagogue this weekend, 2 metres apart with all the windows and doors open lol so it was freezing 
.
It's just stuff I'm hearing from people out and about how 'this is gonna kill more people than the virus', how social distancing makes it hard to hug people, socialise etc. And it does tbf, it's fucking shit. The whole thing is grim especially going into winter and autumn where outdoor socialising is hard.
.It's just stuff I'm hearing from people out and about how 'this is gonna kill more people than the virus', how social distancing makes it hard to hug people, socialise etc. And it does tbf, it's fucking shit. The whole thing is grim especially going into winter and autumn where outdoor socialising is hard.
Yeah I mean I'm not one to talk tbh, been in a few pubs and a Chinese restaurant since they reopened, plus in person services at the synagogue this weekend, 2 metres apart with all the windows and doors open lol so it was freezing
I was thinking about this yesterday. Trying to do a daily walk round a local nature reserve for body and mind. At the start of lockdown there was some litter
and was about to pick it up but stopped myself as had forgotten sanitiser. Last week the same thing happened but I just grabbed it and stuffed in my bag. Almost certainly not an issue but just shows how my head has changed.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I think the reasons are also social, ie connected to the kind of atomised lives centred around individual consumption that we all tend to live now.
"there is no society, there are only individuals and their families"
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
A few points from my zoom meeting this morning.
The care home owner mentioned the weekly staff test results, which were coming back in 24-48 hours, are now taking 3-4 days on average - and the extra wait is stressing them out, her small home has remained covid free so far.
She reported another local care home, which had been clear, had a member of staff that started to feel ill towards the end of her shift, she didn't go in the next day & took another test. The care home had to wait 3 days for the positive result before they could re-test all staff & residents, positive results came back on 2 more members of staff & 2 residents.
* Care homes are issued with enough tests to test staff weekly and residents every four weeks.
The funeral director mentioned they had a break in covid cases of about 8 weeks, but are currently dealing with two.
The electrician and locksmith both mentioned their private jobs have virtually disappeared in the last week, except for emergency call-outs, with jobs booked being put off, because people are getting nervous again about having strangers come into their homes. This is a repeat of what happened in the week before lockdown.
The SME advisor is currently flat out in helping small & medium sized businesses deal with redundancies, most of the owners are so upset about losing good staff, but have no choice in an attempt to keep their businesses afloat. One guy had to make a family member redundant.
It's all a bit grim TBH.
The care home owner mentioned the weekly staff test results, which were coming back in 24-48 hours, are now taking 3-4 days on average - and the extra wait is stressing them out, her small home has remained covid free so far.
She reported another local care home, which had been clear, had a member of staff that started to feel ill towards the end of her shift, she didn't go in the next day & took another test. The care home had to wait 3 days for the positive result before they could re-test all staff & residents, positive results came back on 2 more members of staff & 2 residents.
* Care homes are issued with enough tests to test staff weekly and residents every four weeks.
The funeral director mentioned they had a break in covid cases of about 8 weeks, but are currently dealing with two.
The electrician and locksmith both mentioned their private jobs have virtually disappeared in the last week, except for emergency call-outs, with jobs booked being put off, because people are getting nervous again about having strangers come into their homes. This is a repeat of what happened in the week before lockdown.
The SME advisor is currently flat out in helping small & medium sized businesses deal with redundancies, most of the owners are so upset about losing good staff, but have no choice in an attempt to keep their businesses afloat. One guy had to make a family member redundant.
It's all a bit grim TBH.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Well Cornwall's got off incredibly lightly so far but ...
www.cornwalllive.com
More employees saying similar. So, .... young people going out clubbing and partying at fault again
You really would think they'd be sending government inspectors round these places. Ah no, with this lot I suppose you wouldn't.
More workers test positive at Cornish food factory
Staff members claim that 88 people tested positive on Saturday
More employees saying similar. So, .... young people going out clubbing and partying at fault again
You really would think they'd be sending government inspectors round these places. Ah no, with this lot I suppose you wouldn't.
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