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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Yeah, I've not changed anything much since things officially eased slightly (and unofficially loads). I'm a bit the same, I can't see me changing much for a while yet. I've been working through it (NHS clinical) although only part time. The only thing I'll do different is probably drive somewhere 30 minutes or so for a walk or swim in the country.
Same here.

I was absolutely mortified the other day when my I found that my son had gone to see a friend of ours and actually gone into her house :eek::mad:. I'm really angry with her because she is a mental health nurse working in a clinical setting (so at higher risk imo) and has several chronic health conditions and lives with 3 other people including a child. , so putting them at risk by having my son in her house. My son is putting himself and housemates at risk....although by all accounts his housemates have been bringing back people to hook up with :facepalm:. His arguement is 'We are all gonna get it' and understandably he wants to live his life.....however I was just incredulous at his management. Its summer, it's hot, you could of met in the park and socially distanced, you could have had a socially distanced chat on the doorstep. Like him and me do.

It made me cry because I so badly want to hug him. So fucked off with my friend.
 
I see a lot of people out and about who would appear to be taking a similar approach. Of course, that's a self selecting sample, so I don't really have an idea how many people are really still shutting themselves indoors for everything but essential business. I'm curious though, whether there is an unseen proportion of the population who are pretty fearful about leaving their homes - and how large that proportion is.

For me I didnt go out all that much before this pandemic, which in its own funny way has given me the luxury of being in no rush to frequenty venture outside again now. I've been taking things one week at a time, and every week I assume there is a bit less risk. However what would be a real difference maker for me would be if we had high quality, timely local data that actually gave me a decent sense of what ongoing community transmission there is round here. I'm not entirely convinced that I will be treated to such a system.
 
I know that all the way along some people have expressed concern that the government were setting the scene to blame the public for epidemic waves. I had previously given the reasons why I think they couldnt do that for the first wave, and for the future it was not something I was exceptionally concerned about, it was something to keep an eye on and keep in mind rather than something I thought would happen for sure.

Well, with the whole Cummings thing I now think its even less likely, since people would just turn round and blame the actions of Cummings and the failure to remove him as reasons why public adherence to measures had fallen short.
 
I feel that walking or cycling around outside, including relatively busy parks (where it's still feasible to stay 1 or 2m from everyone) is pretty negligible risk. I don't feel entirely comfortable in supermarkets, I wouldn't sit in a pub and for now am still not using trains or buses at all. But leaving the house doesn't in itself feel like a big deal.
Part of the problem with that attitude (not having a go at you, just an observation in general) is that if everyone does it, then some proportion of those people will have some unanticipated event happen to them - bike/car accident, health emergency, whatever - which, regardless of their original intentions, brings them into much closer contact with far more people than they would ever have planned.
 
On the assumption that the FT was previously a cheerleader for the tories and austerity and critical of labour lavish spending etc maybe now would be a good time for them to apologise for the blood on their own hands.
Endorsed Tories in 2010, coalition in 2015, Tories in 2017 and no party (but free-market liberals) in 2019.
Like you say, blood on their own hands. However, badly the present government has handled things much of the damage was done under the previous coalition/Tory (and Labour) governments.
 
Part of the problem with that attitude (not having a go at you, just an observation in general) is that if everyone does it, then some proportion of those people will have some unanticipated event happen to them - bike/car accident, health emergency, whatever - which, regardless of their original intentions, brings them into much closer contact with far more people than they would ever have planned.
Yes, so you have to take a view on what the risks of the unanticipated events happening are - and balance them against the risks of things happening if everyone stays couped up at home, whether that means mental health, the consequences of not getting proper exercise, DIY accidents, and so on. But that's kind of a separate calculation from the one about the risk of spreading infection assuming nothing unanticipated happens.
 
Feeling a bit fed up today and missing family and friends. A friend posted a picture of another friend in her garden and I was slightly pissed off about it, as I haven't seen anyone (other than butchers). I know I could meet one other person and sit in a park with them but the only people I would want to do that with are either quarantined completely or too far away.

I also feel bad for feeling like this because I know I am lucky to be working, safe in my house, and not having to worry about money and nobody I know has had the virus, which is the most important thing.
 
I've had a couple of half-arsed stabs at looking at things more locally from now on, as the situation evolves to the point that the individual epidemics and outbreaks stand out more, and as things hopefully get tackled on that level.

Well here is the BBCs equivalent, mostly at the regional levels but there are some interesting graphs and nods to the local future. There is plenty more to the story beyond the headline they went with.

 
Today saw the launch of the Government's Track and Trace programme.

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So how did that go ?

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One or two teething troubles then. Yesterday Baroness Harding seemed quite bullish about the system's readiness.

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Today however :

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When the programme was announced at the start of the month it was reported that
The contact tracing system crucial to hopes of easing lockdown will be outsourced to private call centre operators including Serco (...) The bulk of contact tracing work will be contracted out to at least two companies who are being asked to provide about 15,000 call centre staff. They will be given about a day of training in the principles of and a script to handle conversations with people who have been at close quarters with confirmed cases.
Coronavirus: Private call centres will run new contact tracing system - The Times May 4th (paywalled so archived)

In it's last two issues Private Eye expressed some scepticism about the plans
CONTRACT TRACING - Private Eye 1521 (8-21 May)

Health secretary Matt Hancock's pledge on 23 April that he would be “really kickstarting contact tracing” by “hiring an initial 18,000 people” and “training up the mass ranks of our contact tracers” sounded like the UK was about to follow the successful test-and-trace route against Covid-19 followed elsewhere. But again the UK seems to be going its own way.

Contact tracing is labour-intensive as it involves interviewing infected people to find their recent contacts, who are then traced and tested for infection and quarantined if necessary. It has helped containment in Germany and some south-east Asian nations. Having abandoned it in favour of its misguided herd immunity plan in mid-March, the government now seems to be trying to play catch-up. But in a letter to the 13 regional directors of public health, Public Health England said only 3,000 of Hancock's 18,000 contact tracers would be “qualified public health and clinical professionals”. The rest will be “call handlers” from “an external logistics partner”.

The NHS will not directly hire those 15,000 people, instead handing out call centre contracts to companies like Serco. Agencies advertising for contact tracer posts are offering minimum wage (£8.72 an hour) and asking for staff with experience of “telephone or face to face customer services” who are “passionate” about “delivering an outstanding customer experience”.

This low-wage “customer services” approach is in contrast to best practice elsewhere, which relies on local government staff. The Association of State and Territorial Health Officials, the US’s public health association, recommends training “librarians, teachers and school personnel, and other professionals that have experience working in communi ties”. Ireland, meanwhile, brought in repurposed librarians, civil servants and army cadets to supplement its contact-tracing teams.

Public Health England had only 300 contact tracers at the time the approach was abandoned in mid-March, and it didn’t mobilise the 5,000 or so local authority environmental health experts who already have contact-tracing experience. Hancock’s antipathy to local government and enthusiasm for contracting out, as well as for unproven tech solutions - his scheme relies on untested mobile phone apps to trace contacts digitally - means the UK is again out on a limb.

SUNK WITHOUT TRACERS - Private Eye 1522 (22 May - 4th June)

How will the government’s 15,000 unqualified Covid contact tracers (last Eye) be medically supervised? The answer seems to be: via a script.

The 15,000 unqualified staff, supplied by call centres, will join 3,000 medically qualified contact tracers who work for Public Health England. When the Eye asked if the two groups would communicate, the Department of Health (DoH) responded that unqualified staff would receive “context-specific training developed by Public Health England” - but not, apparently, delivered by the NHS or its professionals.

Instead they will rely on a script, with both qualified and unqualified staff working on a common IT system where the DoH said they would “interface and work together in an integrated way where appropriate”. Job ads, however, show that separate, medically unqualified “customer service” supervisors are being recruited for the call centre staff.

Health secretary Matt Hancock’s plan to use unqualified contact tracers unsupervised by medical staff is far from standard practice. Public Health England’s own contact tracing was suspended on 12 March, but its guidance says “a clinician” will speak to infected people to “gather details of places they visited and the people they’ve been in contact with”. In Iceland, health students and police officers supplemented contact tracing teams. Hancock’s plan rests heavily on the idea that its new NHSX app will do the bulk of the tracing work. Let’s hope he’s right.

Among the contact tracers who spoke to Sky News yesterday
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The scripts they have been given do indeed cover how to "handle conversations"

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When the programme was announced it was also stated
The system will be underpinned by an NHS app that alerts people if they have been near someone known to have coronavirus, which begins trials in the Isle of Wight this week. Yesterday the government said that more than half the country would need to download a tracking app for it to stay on top of outbreaks. (Times May 4th)


However yesterday Baroness Harding was unable to confirm a date when the app might be ready
Baroness Dido Harding, the new boss of the NHS's Test and Trace programme, would not confirm if the app was still on track to be launched in June. When asked whether she could say when the app would be available, the former TalkTalk boss who is now leading the UK's tracing effort, said: "No, sorry. One of the things I am trying to do with this programme is move away from individual dates."

NHS test and trace system to launch without app - Telegraph (paywalled so archived)

One way of looking at all this would be to focus on the fact that an outsourced system, which already had visible holes in it, is being launched when it isn't ready, and when it isn't known whether the voluntary app that is supposed to underpin it will work.

But let's not be 'gloomsters' and 'naysayers'. After all if it turns out that it was correct that
tracking all known contacts of each case and checking them for the virus is crucial to allowing lockdown to be eased without risking a second wave of the epidemic. (Times)
and the system doesn't actually work what is the worst that can happen ?

As people have said there can be no CERTAINTY of a 'second wave'.
 
When I read people saying that they are basically going to continue barely leaving the house ... this is quite out of whack with how I am now behaving - I feel that walking or cycling around outside, including relatively busy parks (where it's still feasible to stay 1 or 2m from everyone) is pretty negligible risk. I don't feel entirely comfortable in supermarkets, I wouldn't sit in a pub and for now am still not using trains or buses at all. But leaving the house doesn't in itself feel like a big deal.

I see a lot of people out and about who would appear to be taking a similar approach. Of course, that's a self selecting sample, so I don't really have an idea how many people are really still shutting themselves indoors for everything but essential business. I'm curious though, whether there is an unseen proportion of the population who are pretty fearful about leaving their homes - and how large that proportion is.

I wonder if it differs according to whether you live somewhere urban or suburban/rural. If you look out of the window and see a fair few people out and about, then it doesn't feel weird to be out and about yourself. But maybe if you are in a quiet area, where even in normal times you don't see people walking around, and you are sitting inside watching news reports, does that create an entirely different perception of risk/acceptability?

Yes and no. I'm not scared to go out and I do go out and am relatively happy distancing wise and risk wise. However I'm wfh full time and cant be bothered going out in the evening even if i hoped to earlier in the day. Sometimes this all seems quite tiring. If i was commuting being outside would be a part of my day but once home I'd be equally unlikely to bother going out again for a walk or cycle or drink. . Even though I'm happy going out it does feel like more of an expedition/palaver. Going into little shops is mostly ok but even sainsbury local can feel stressy. Also now some people seem a lot more cavalier I feel the need to counteract that a little.

There are lots of people about but if I think about how many people there must be living in the flats around me and how many people must be furloughed I think most people are mostly staying home.
 
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I’ve been feeling little bit better about going out and the past few weeks I’ve been doing the supermarket shop and weirdly look forward to it even though it’s quite stressful.
I then read in our local paper that a Bournemouth footballer has tested positive though and swears that the only place he’s been is to the supermarket and must have caught it there. He could have been lying of course but that freaked me out a bit.
I’m preferring tiny (and fucking expensive) shops. There are a couple of independent bakeries that only let one person in at a time so I’ve been going there once or twice a week for fancy bread and a coffee that I put in a mug when I get home. That small sense of normality has been lovely.
 
We were in an online work meeting this morning, our workmate's brother is working on the end of life ward, he said on Tuesday they've had to call police to that ward twice because grieving relatives turned up to pay their respects despite being told this wasn’t allowed under the lockdown rules. First time they’ve had to do this to get people to leave.
 
I was in town yesterday and noticed that people were keeping their distance at all times, even when talking with friends. If people came within arms reach there was a distinct look and move away. Prior to this, it being Spain, people were physically close all the time. I wonder if this is going to be a cultural change.
 
They already are where I live and just about everywhere else....

Groups of up to six people will be able to meet outside in England from Monday, Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said.

People can meet in gardens and private outdoor spaces, provided they keep two metres apart, Mr Johnson added.

"These changes mean friends and family will start to meet loved ones," in what would be a "long awaited and joyful moment", he said.
 
I was in town yesterday and noticed that people were keeping their distance at all times, even when talking with friends. If people came within arms reach there was a distinct look and move away. Prior to this, it being Spain, people were physically close all the time. I wonder if this is going to be a cultural change.

Hopefully. It looks like our best weapon when keeping virus free as we come out of lockdown.
 
I was in town yesterday and noticed that people were keeping their distance at all times, even when talking with friends. If people came within arms reach there was a distinct look and move away. Prior to this, it being Spain, people were physically close all the time. I wonder if this is going to be a cultural change.

Very possibly the reason the Spanish government lost their mind when they realised how infectious it was and told everyone to go inside and not come out at all.
Also why it's not so much of a problem for the British, your all fucking weirdos, not getting close to you lot. The old normal.
 
Very possible the reason the Spanish government lost their mind when they realised how infectious it was and told everyone to go inside and not come out at all.
Also why it's not so much of a problem for the British, your all fucking weirdos, not getting close to you lot.

I dunno. I grew up in Oxford. Its taken me 40 years to train myself out of being a stand-offish weirdo and now this happens.
 
They already are where I live and just about everywhere else....



Some already were but its all about what proportion are doing such things. So its still noteworthy when these relaxations happen formally, because gradually I'd expect far, far more people to start behaving that way compared to the numbers you've already seen/heard/heard about doing this.
 
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