Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Orang Utan]

They're baristas. Not exactly investment bankers. They have kids. What's your beef?

I don’t have a beef, but it costs a lot of money to run a car.

 

[Petcha]

Has anyone pointed out the Irony of a Johnson government enforcing these cc changes when one of his first actions as Mayor was to reduce the size and effectiveness of the zone?

Arrggh, sorry continued derail.

It's not a derail at all!

I apologise for quoting the Mail, which I despise, but maybe I'm misinformed and tbh didn't read much about this. How is Boris enforcing the rise in congestion charges in London when it looks to me like Sadique Khan has done it while also encouraging people to avoid public transport - which is a bit bonkers to me?

Just hold your (nose) literally and suck it up (literally) for the meantime and accept that we need cars at the mo while public transport is understaffed and dangerous. I'm not sure how else someone else is supposed to get to work from Tulse Hill to Notting Hill and remain safe. It's a fairly epic cycle. And as I said before, does anyone know how our Mayor is getting around the city right now?

 

[Orang Utan]

Piece of piss!

 

[Petcha]

I don’t have a beef, but it costs a lot of money to run a car.

Fair dos. I dont have one, never have, never will, hate them, but I'm trying to be pragmatic here. I've no idea how much it costs to run a car and really dont care. They live fairly frugally I guess.

 

[smokedout]

Er no, it's a despicable move from the Tory government. An attack on the Londoners who didn't vote for them. Do you think his Tory counterpart will now be polling higher

It is a despicable move, but also an act of utter cowardice from Khan who could have quite easily said fine, I'll shut the transport system down if you aren't prepared to pay for it. Bye Grant, call me when you change your mind.

 

[20Bees]

I have a car because here, in a village a few miles from Cambridge, there is only one bus a day to and from the city and it ties in with school times. Useless for most workers and indeed, most shoppers. I could cycle the 7 miles to my evening supermarket job but I’m nervous cycling home late at night down fast unlit country lanes. Glad not to have to get in or out of London more than a few times a decade! There will be a congestion charge in Cambridge eventually, no doubt, but I work this side of the centre so should hopefully avoid it.

 

[editor]

Liverpool does what's right:

Liverpool's schools will not reopen to most children on June 1, parents have been warned today.

In a letter to parents today, the council's director for children and young people's services Steve Reddy said only the children of key workers were likely to be back at school on Monday, June 1, the target date the government set for some schools to reopen.

Mayor Joe Anderson warned earlier this week that he would resist sending kids back at the beginning of next month, saying he had concerns about whether schools would be able to operate safely.

The council will instead permanently close its network of around 50 childcare hubs which have been providing provision for parents of key workers and vulnerable children, on Friday 22 May.

Liverpool schools will not reopen on June 1

The council's children's services chief issued a warning to parents today

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[teuchter]

I'm not sure how else someone else is supposed to get to work from Tulse Hill to Notting Hill and remain safe. It's a fairly epic cycle.

Options:

• perfectly possible to cycle that distance if they are moderately fit and healthy. Should take less than an hour. Keeping cars off the road makes this easier and faster.
• if they are baristas, it's not essential work and I'd rather see them furloughed but that's an argument to have with central government.
• if they can't cycle, and they are forced to return to work, and decide to drive, they don't even have to go through the congestion charging zone.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Some TV advert refers to 'stay at home heroes' which is stretching the definition of heroism a bit far.

We are not 'stay at home heroes' we are bored people observing the rules in order to avoid this bloody plague.

 

[Sprocket.]

I have just received this from a former workmate who until recently worked at this place. He wasn’t there long and left under a cloud after falling out with a manager. To me this emphasises the foolhardiness in rushing back to work in some of these workplaces.


Coronavirus: Three Wombwell food factory workers die Three food factory workers died with coronavirus

 

[Cerv]

It's not a derail at all!

I apologise for quoting the Mail, which I despise, but maybe I'm misinformed and tbh didn't read much about this. How is Boris enforcing the rise in congestion charges in London when it looks to me like Sadique Khan has done it while also encouraging people to avoid public transport - which is a bit bonkers to me?

Just hold your (nose) literally and suck it up (literally) for the meantime and accept that we need cars at the mo while public transport is understaffed and dangerous. I'm not sure how else someone else is supposed to get to work from Tulse Hill to Notting Hill and remain safe. It's a fairly epic cycle. And as I said before, does anyone know how our Mayor is getting around the city right now?

to answer your first question
the congestion charge increase and all the rest are part of the conditions imposed by the government in return for the money. they could've just written a cheque and left London to sort it out, but chose this instead to show that London was paying back their largesse.

on the second, just drive round instead of through the congestion charge zone. still a pretty direct route.

It is a despicable move, but also an act of utter cowardice from Khan who could have quite easily said fine, I'll shut the transport system down if you aren't prepared to pay for it. Bye Grant, call me when you change your mind.

easy really? sounds like a total disaster to me. that sort of brinkmanship is going to harm a lot of people. leave it to the Trumps of this world.

 

[elbows]

I havent been able to read this piece yet, but it sounds like it draws attention to an area I have been going on about for far too long:

 

[ska invita]

This thread moves too fast....impossible to keep up. I do wish different subjects within it got broken down a bit more.

 

[elbows]

Daily all cause deaths for England and Wales were included in some ONS data that came out today. Its provisional data that will change a bit by the time it comes out again in a month, due to death registration delays.

Table 4 of: Deaths involving COVID-19, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

As expected, April 8th was the peak.

I have daily death data going back to January 1st 1970. The figure for April 8th 2020, of 3122 deaths, is higher than every other day in the historical data except for one. 3255 deaths were recorded on Jan 2nd 1970, when the UK was at the height of the H3N2 influenza pandemic.

I dont have daily data for all deaths in January and Febriary, so one of these graphs will look a little odd but I am going to include a few anyway to provide some context.

The H3N2 pandemic visible at the start of the 1970 data:


An influenza epidemic in 1976:


An influenza epidemic in 1989:

The end of an influenza epidemic in 1998/99 and another one in 1999/2000:

An example of a year from the 2010's without a bad influenza epidemic:

March and April 2020 provisional figures:

Grim

(historical daily data going back to 1970 is from Daily death occurrences, England, regions of England and Wales: 1970 to 2014 - Office for National Statistics )

 

[Petcha]

Options:

• perfectly possible to cycle that distance if they are moderately fit and healthy. Should take less than an hour. Keeping cars off the road makes this easier and faster.
• if they are baristas, it's not essential work and I'd rather see them furloughed but that's an argument to have with central government.
• if they can't cycle, and they are forced to return to work, and decide to drive, they don't even have to go through the congestion charging zone.

What line of work are you in out of interest? And what's your commute like?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I'm not sure how else someone else is supposed to get to work from Tulse Hill to Notting Hill and remain safe. It's a fairly epic cycle.

Epic? According to a quick cycling route calculator it's 8 miles, and flat (less than 200ft of climbing on the return leg). Would take less than an hour. Easy!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Daily all cause deaths for England and Wales were included in some ONS data that came out today. Its provisional data that will change a bit by the time it comes out again in a month, due to death registration delays.

Table 4 of: Deaths involving COVID-19, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

As expected, April 8th was the peak.

I have daily death data going back to January 1st 1970. The figure for April 8th 2020, of 3122 deaths, is higher than every other day in the historical data except for one. 3255 deaths were recorded on Jan 2nd 1970, when the UK was at the height of the H3N2 influenza pandemic.

I dont have daily data for all deaths in January and Febriary, so one of these graphs will look a little odd but I am going to include a few anyway to provide some context.

The H3N2 pandemic visible at the start of the 1970 data:

View attachment 212711
An influenza epidemic in 1976:

View attachment 212712
An influenza epidemic in 1989:
View attachment 212713
The end of an influenza epidemic in 1998/99 and another one in 1999/2000:
View attachment 212714View attachment 212715
An example of a year from the 2010's without a bad influenza epidemic:
View attachment 212716
March and April 2020 provisional figures:
View attachment 212717
Grim

(historical daily data going back to 1970 is from Daily death occurrences, England, regions of England and Wales: 1970 to 2014 - Office for National Statistics )

I could not have named one of those really bad flu years. I only know about the recent 2014-15 one now cos of covid19. Amazing how they all passed by with barely a comment at the time.

 

[Epona]

I could not have named one of those really bad flu years. I only know about the recent 2014-15 one now cos of covid19. Amazing how they all passed by with barely a comment at the time.

They didn't really pass without comment - my OH was in St Thomas's in December 2014 in an emergency overflow unit because they were packed full and struggling with the influx of seriously ill people. It wasn't in the news every day, but it was mentioned often enough that winter, and some like us were personally affected by it. Maybe because it affected us, I paid more attention to media mentions of it?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

They didn't really pass without comment - my OH was in St Thomas's in December 2014 in an emergency overflow unit because they were packed full and struggling with the influx of seriously ill people. It wasn't in the news every day, but it was mentioned often enough that winter, and some like us were personally affected by it. Maybe because it affected us, I paid more attention to media mentions of it?

Ok, but if you weren't affected directly it could easily pass you by.

 

[Epona]

Ok, but if you weren't affected directly it could easily pass you by.

Can't that be said of many things though?

 

[Shechemite]

Life in an ‘assessment and treatment unit’

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Can't that be said of many things though?

Fair enough, you don't think it remarkable.

There's lots I didn't know about flu before this year, like just how much it varies each year. Speaking to other people, I'm not the only one. Bit like road deaths, imo - a big killer that is just there.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Saw a queue at a bus stop this afternoon for the first time in a long while - not rush hour either, mid afternoon. Also every building site around here has been open all week. I have a bad feeling about all this.

 

[teuchter]

What line of work are you in out of interest? And what's your commute like?

I've got a non-essential job that allows me to mostly work from home. I expect that's the answer you wanted, so you can say something about how it's all very well for me to tell other people how they should travel when I don't have to - is that right?

 

[teuchter]

Daily all cause deaths for England and Wales were included in some ONS data that came out today. Its provisional data that will change a bit by the time it comes out again in a month, due to death registration delays.

Table 4 of: Deaths involving COVID-19, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

As expected, April 8th was the peak.

I have daily death data going back to January 1st 1970. The figure for April 8th 2020, of 3122 deaths, is higher than every other day in the historical data except for one. 3255 deaths were recorded on Jan 2nd 1970, when the UK was at the height of the H3N2 influenza pandemic.

I dont have daily data for all deaths in January and Febriary, so one of these graphs will look a little odd but I am going to include a few anyway to provide some context.

The H3N2 pandemic visible at the start of the 1970 data:

View attachment 212711
An influenza epidemic in 1976:

View attachment 212712
An influenza epidemic in 1989:
View attachment 212713
The end of an influenza epidemic in 1998/99 and another one in 1999/2000:
View attachment 212714View attachment 212715
An example of a year from the 2010's without a bad influenza epidemic:
View attachment 212716
March and April 2020 provisional figures:
View attachment 212717
Grim

(historical daily data going back to 1970 is from Daily death occurrences, England, regions of England and Wales: 1970 to 2014 - Office for National Statistics )

Obviously we don't yet know what happens for the next few months... but my reaction to looking at those graphs, is that in terms of number of excess deaths it's similar to a flu epidemic - a bad flu epidemic, and quite a bit worse than most of those, but not loads and loads worse.

 

[frogwoman]

It's estimated that only a tiny proportion of people have actually had the virus tho.

 

[Looby]

How can they afford it? Cut other things out? I’m not on great pay and I’ll never be able to afford a car

Some have to. Home care staff are terribly paid and most have to run a car although their mileage is usually covered.
All my recent jobs and uni placements required me to run a car.
I’m not really low paid now but it’s still a huge expense. Currently paying a massive amount for a car I’m using once a week to go to Sainsburys.

 

[Epona]

It's estimated that only a tiny proportion of people have actually had the virus tho.

Indeed, and there is a vaccination protocol for most strains of flu that are doing the rounds meaning that in most years many of the most vulnerable are protected.

 

[frogwoman]

Indeed, and there is a vaccination protocol for most strains of flu that are doing the rounds meaning that in most years many of the most vulnerable are protected.

I don't quite get this 'oh its no worse than the flu' shit from right wingers either. I have the flu shot every year after a really bad bout of it where I was in bed off work for two weeks. The flu is a killer and it's fucking shit. Even colds have given me really bad side effects in the past like coughing up blood and nosebleeds from constant coughing and blowing my nose.

 

[BristolEcho]

I don't quite get this 'oh its no worse than the flu' shit from right wingers either. I have the flu shot every year after a really bad bout of it where I was in bed off work for two weeks. The flu is a killer and it's fucking shit. Even colds have given me really bad side effects in the past like coughing up blood and nosebleeds from constant coughing and blowing my nose.

It's also how they draw comparisons like "The flu kills 1000's every year." Yes, and we know to expect that. This is more deaths on top of those that we already experience which has a significant impact upon families, communities and the economy.

The flu would kill even more without the vaccines.