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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

I don't quite get this 'oh its no worse than the flu' shit from right wingers either. I have the flu shot every year after a really bad bout of it where I was in bed off work for two weeks. The flu is a killer and it's fucking shit. Even colds have given me really bad side effects in the past like coughing up blood and nosebleeds from constant coughing and blowing my nose.

Exactly - tbh I think a lot of people think they get flu every year until they actually do get a type A flu, then they realise "fuck me that's some nasty shit right there". I had the H3Nsomethingorother swine flu that was doing the rounds a few winters back, was hallucinating and struggling to breathe for a good couple of weeks and coughing up blood at one point (probably should have gone to hospital tbh), took me about 3 months to fully recover.
 
A few years ago I had a cold which was aggravated by damp and mould in the room i was living in, and sorry for the disgusting image but i coughed up a similar amount and consistency of blood to what i generally find on a trip the bathroom during my periods, i was absolutely terrified tbh and this was a fairly mild infection, was struggling to breathe at one point and I was in my 20s with no health conditions.

People need to take this shit seriously
 
I don't quite get this 'oh its no worse than the flu' shit from right wingers either. I have the flu shot every year after a really bad bout of it where I was in bed off work for two weeks. The flu is a killer and it's fucking shit. Even colds have given me really bad side effects in the past like coughing up blood and nosebleeds from constant coughing and blowing my nose.
Even apart from the differences - and a proper dose of flu can really kick your arse and for some people kill them - what it really highlights is that society doesn't take the flu seriously (or infectious diseases generally). The endless raising of flu comparisons is an attempt to put COVID-19 in the same category, "things that are a bit of a pain but not as important as showing up at the office on time".
 
Obviously we don't yet know what happens for the next few months... but my reaction to looking at those graphs, is that in terms of number of excess deaths it's similar to a flu epidemic - a bad flu epidemic, and quite a bit worse than most of those, but not loads and loads worse.
Except in those other scenarios they didn’t have to shut most things down for 2 months to stop the spread of the virus. If they hadn’t, I’m sure the graph would be loads and loads worse.
 
Even apart from the differences - and a proper dose of flu can really kick your arse and for some people kill them - what it really highlights is that society doesn't take the flu seriously (or infectious diseases generally). The endless raising of flu comparisons is an attempt to put COVID-19 in the same category, "things that are a bit of a pain but not as important as showing up at the office on time".

Yeah read an article about a month ago by a young healthy guy who ended up on a ventilator from flu in 2015 and wrote about what it had been like :(
 
Even apart from the differences - and a proper dose of flu can really kick your arse and for some people kill them - what it really highlights is that society doesn't take the flu seriously (or infectious diseases generally). The endless raising of flu comparisons is an attempt to put COVID-19 in the same category, "things that are a bit of a pain but not as important as showing up at the office on time".

Even if you have a slight cold going to work and out and about can lead to picking up a secondary infection.
 
Yeah read an article about a month ago by a young healthy guy who ended up on a ventilator from flu in 2015 and wrote about what it had been like :(
I had a proper dose a couple of years ago and it fucked me for two weeks - hallucinating, couldn't eat properly, couldn't do anything at all. Worse than a friend of mine who got the rona recently come to think of it. Luckily my lungs seem ok and things don't "go to my chest" much but you can't rely on that, and I've had more minor cases that have left me unable to climb stairs since.

Lost two stone mind.
 
Exactly - tbh I think a lot of people think they get flu every year until they actually do get a type A flu, then they realise "fuck me that's some nasty shit right there". I had the H3Nsomethingorother swine flu that was doing the rounds a few winters back, was hallucinating and struggling to breathe for a good couple of weeks and coughing up blood at one point (probably should have gone to hospital tbh), took me about 3 months to fully recover.

I had swine flu, when it peaked in the summer 2009, which was unusual for flu, then there was a lower peak in the autumn, it knocked me out for at least 3 weeks, it was a right pig.

[sorry for the pun] :oops:
 
Saw a queue at a bus stop this afternoon for the first time in a long while - not rush hour either, mid afternoon. Also every building site around here has been open all week. I have a bad feeling about all this.
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This is already happening...
The so-called "R-number" is now between 0.7 and 1.0 - it needs to be kept below one in order to stay in control. The rise in the figures is thought to be driven by the virus spreading in care homes and hospitals. The effect of the changes to lockdown announced by the prime minister on Sunday is still unknown.
The latest analysis takes account of the spread of coronavirus in care homes, hospitals and more widely in society. As the figures are based on patients ending up in hospital, they actually give a sense of the R-number from around three weeks ago.

That predates Boris Johnson's shift in England from "stay at home" to "stay alert", alongside encouraging some people back to work and allowing people to meet one person from outside their household outdoors. The increase in the infection rate is said to be "consistent with" a significant fall in cases in the community and the epidemic and in turn the R-number being driven by care homes.
 
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Anyone (elbows lol) seen a scientific paper on these new r estimates?
No attribution or details of methodology (yet) - the government has just published a national estimate of 0.7-1.0.

Note that this is an estimate influenced by data that is in effect 2-3 weeks out of date so it doesn't really reflect any limp and vague relaxation of the soft lockdown.
 
Obviously we don't yet know what happens for the next few months... but my reaction to looking at those graphs, is that in terms of number of excess deaths it's similar to a flu epidemic - a bad flu epidemic, and quite a bit worse than most of those, but not loads and loads worse.

It's estimated that only a tiny proportion of people have actually had the virus tho.

Exactly frogwoman. The impact on mortality so far resembles a bad influenza epidemic or pandemic, but the crucial point is that thats what it looks like so far with a lockdown. A lockdown that was late and soft in various ways, but still major mitigation. The data doesnt tell us what it would have looked like without a lockdown, and I am glad we didnt get to find out.

So the claim that should be made when comparing it to the last 50 years of influenza and other deaths, is that 'even with the uk lockdown it resembles the bad influenza pandemic that we had at the end of 1969/start of 1970'. Or 'even with the uk lockdown it had a peak death rate higher than any influenza epidemic of the last 50 years'. Its hard to imagine how I would be able to make those claims if the lockdown (and the steps before it that caused people to start to change behaviour lots a week before) had been done earlier.

It is of course necessary to see what happens next, I barely have enough data to really place this year in context yet. But since some people were interested in the pattern of previous years, here is a full representation of the daily death data from 1970-2018 (I dont have any for 2019 yet). The scales are too small to read but they are the same as they were on the individual year graphs I posted earlier. With this one each row shows a decade, so the first row is the 1970s and the last the 2010's. And I have placed the provisional figures so far for March and April 2020 at the start and end of every row so that it is a bit easier to start to compare this pandemic spike of death so far to all of those decades.

Screenshot 2020-05-15 at 18.27.37.png
I'm not actually obsessed with peak death rate, its just a convenient way to make historical comparisons. And I'm certainly going to take note when in April we had days with more death on those days than there has been on any other day in my lifetime (born 1975). Still its the total deaths that really matter, but the spikes are strong indicators, and they are what people tend to notice with graphs like these. Due to a lack of May data of this type, the shape of the 2020 pandemic spike as presented above may be misleading, the downward curve is not really accurately shown yet. And that obviously makes quite a difference to total deaths.

When I get round to studying the historical excess mortality data of Germany compared to this country, I expect I will have lots more to say about deaths at times other than this pandemic, how I wish we could do better as a country all the time, especially every winter. How nothing will make up for the lives lost in this pandemic, but that we could at least try to permanently change our priorities so that large orders of magnitude of deaths could be prevented in future.
 
Saw a queue at a bus stop this afternoon for the first time in a long while - not rush hour either, mid afternoon. Also every building site around here has been open all week. I have a bad feeling about all this.
on bike ride today saw full on traffic and loads of groups in the park, 6-8 people - busiest day ive seen since lockdown and i go out every day on that ride
 
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And then I had swine flu and while it was by no means fun it was a week where i didnt feel too bad as long as i took my painkillers and didnt do anything more strenuous than wander from the sofa to the bed etc.

I am confident i would not fair so well with covid now. E2a argh drafts.

anyone got any thoughts on the only 24 new infections a day in London data? Seems very unlikely to me, but... its modelling rather than fact right?

The bottom of this article suggests something different. Who knows.

 
No attribution or details of methodology (yet) - the government has just published a national estimate of 0.7-1.0.

Note that this is an estimate influenced by data that is in effect 2-3 weeks out of date so it doesn't really reflect any limp and vague relaxation of the soft lockdown.

Since they go on about multiple different modelling groups on that page, I think we will just have to find some of the individual model results ourselves. Which leads me to...

anyone got any thoughts on the only 24 new infections a day in London data? Seems very unlikely to me, but... its modelling rather than fact right?

I linked to a version of the study that came up with that number earlier this week, and yes its modelling stuff. And it relates to these official estimates of R.

I certainly wouldnt take their number of new infections at face value, it probably shows limitations with the model and/or the data they fed into it. If they base stuff on narrow data such as only confirmed deaths and confirmed cases, I'm not surprised if some of the numbers that come out are unrealistically small. Other numbers/trends might still have something of the truth to them though, I wont really know until there is conflicting eidence.

Helpfully this BBC article points out a problem with the 24 new infections a day in London thing:


However, claims there are now just 24 cases a day in the capital and that it could soon be free of the virus have been criticised.

There were in fact 49 people admitted to London hospitals with Covid-19 yesterday and probably hundreds of cases that did not need hospital treatment.

"I am extremely worried about the media message that London could be coronavirus free in days," said Prof Matt Keeling, from the University of Warwick.

He added: "If people think London is coronavirus-free that could be dangerous, and could lead to complacency, undermining all the struggles and sacrifices that everyone has made so far. A relaxation of vigilance could easily see R increasing above 1, and a second epidemic wave."

That BBC article links to several of the studies:

The one I mentioned earlier this week that came out with the 24 thing (actually 23.99): https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/now-casting/

One I hadnt seen before that likely also contributed to the current government R estimate: https://epiforecasts.io/covid/posts/national/united-kingdom/
 
U-turn on France being exempt from the forthcoming border self-quarantine stuff. I see they also clarified at some stage that I missed, that its not just air travellers either.


It was in the initial announcements about Eurostar and other entries, just the papers went with airports in the headlines.
 
Cycled up to Regents park and back through West End today.

The weather was warmer and so more people in Hyde Park. But not that many.

Soho , Regents street, Oxford st - the West End - was deserted.

Buses didnt look like many more people on them.

There was a bit more traffic going through south north route over Vauxhall bridge. But this is route through London.

My partner been told that school is possibly opening up in June. Means she will have to use underground. Not happy with that.

Schools opening will see big increase in people using public transport- teachers, cleaning staff , etc etc are needed to keep a school going.

That is if it happens. She is understandably concerned how its going to work.

I dont use my local parks so dont know how it is in Brixton.

Driving to work in London is not an option. In London only way to get people back to work is using public transport or cycling. My bike shop has has loads of work during pandemic fixing up peoples old bikes.

I volunteer at a Emergency Food Hub funded by Council and run by local group. Sending out hundreds of food boxes a day in Brixton/ Lambeth. A lot of people are struggling. In another Food Hub I went to guy came looking for food for his family. We manged to get him on the list.

My local Council in Lambeth has been doing a lot- to my surprise along with volunteers.

The Lambeth Emergency Food Hubs were set up specifically to give help during lockdown. And I can say its very busy.

I see the personal consquences of the lockdown. For a significant number of people / families this lockdown and the economic consquences are starting to hit hard. For them its a daily struggle. Particularly in area like mine ( Brixton / Loughborough Junction) which is area of high deprivation.

As parts of country gradually move towards easing of lockdown Im concerned what is going to happen to a lot of people.

The future is very uncertain. The first moves of the government- use it to have a go at Mayor of London Khan and in Manchester tell local authority th homeless now housed in hotels are local authorities problem leave me concerned. To say the least.
 
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It’s almost like the government want to fuck the tube, take it over and introduce driverless trains.
RMT today

RMT Press Office:

RMT warns of strike action if necessary to fight London Transport Austerity imposed by government.

Responding to the government announcement today that it is imposing austerity cuts and direct control over transport in London as part of its conditions for funding as a result of the Covid-19 crisis RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said,

“London Transport workers have been vital to fighting Covid-19 and any attacks on their pay, jobs and conditions arising from this imposed settlement will be a complete betrayal.

“We will be seeking an urgent meeting with both the Mayor and Secretary of State for Transport to make clear London Transport workers will not pay the cost of the crisis.

“It looks like Boris Johnson is back in charge of transport in London. We will not accept one penny of austerity cuts imposed by Whitehall or passed on by City Hall as part of this funding package and our resistance will include strike action if necessary.

“We are also deeply concerned that this is a sign of wider austerity conditions to be imposed on the transport industry across the UK”
 
This is how it should work for London for now, i think.

Live within walking/cycling distance of work: you can possibly go back to a non-essential job relatively safely. As much cycling/walking capacity as possible created.
Dont live within walking/cycling distance of work: stay at home if you have a non-essential job. If you're an essential worker - public transport kept at as empty as possible, so you can still use it relatively safely. And, congestion charge ramped up to keep the streets as free as possible for those drivers who get exemptions due to the nature of their work.

Everything the mayor's office has done is consistent with this.

Central government less so.
Plus fewer cars = making it safer to cycle.
 
Outside of the nicely managed transport system of London, are the privatised looters that run the rest of the country’s buses not on their arses because of this? Surely a nice opportunity for local authorities to ‘Take Back Control’ of assets once they’ve been allowed to go bust?
 
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