Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Sue]

New UK slogan going down like a cup of cold sick in Scotland.

Same in Wales and NI -- they're going to ignore the new slogan too.

UK coronavirus: 'This is not the time to end the lockdown,' says Boris Johnson in address to nation – as it happens

Prime minister says from June some pupils could return to school in England; official UK death toll rises to 31,855

www.theguardian.com

 

[andysays]

I dont think it's a necessarily a bad thing garden centres are open tbh if it's safe to do so, I kind of want to get some seeds and be as self sufficient as possible. Afaik Germany never closed harden centres and they were one of the first things to open in countries with stricter lockdowns. I dont have a problem with some stuff opening if it's safe to do so, and tbh in the uk non essential stuff was never shut down so you still have people working in highly unsafe environments to pack clothes up etc

To be honest some garden centres have been open even before the announcement, my sister said she went to one last weekend.

This is all true and fair enough, but I doubt the first question most people have been asking themselves over the past weeks is when the garden centres are going to re-open, so making a thing out of announcing that specifically seems curious...

 

[SpookyFrank]

You are the PM, we are where we are now, what are you going to do?

Protect the rights of workers who do not feel they can get to work safely or that their workplace will be safe. Immediate and effective action against any employers found to be compelling workers to return to work against their will.

Actually decide what is essential and what isn't, and close what isn't, at least until June. Reopening now will be all cost, little benefit for many businesses anyway.

Maintain support for furloughed workers, improve support for self-employed workers so you get more support if you were earning less, instead of the current system where people least in need of support get the most support. Reduce support for furloughed workers who make over 50,000 a year to a small slip of paper with the word 'cope' written on it.

Rent freeze and arrears amnesty covering April, May and June.

Stop punishing and threatening people doing stuff outdoors that has an infinitesimal, if any, chance of spreading the virus. A picnic with members of your household, a run on the beach, whatever. Change the messaging to 'avoid unecessary contact with others, but do so according to your own common sense and judgement'.

Prioritise reopening stuff people actually need. Like, opticians more than soft furnishings. Give important services/businesses proper PPE sourced by government procurement so that those critical to health and wellbeing are not fighting for supplies with businesses which are critical to nothing but their own existence.

 

[Sue]

Went out briefly last night (first time in a week) and there were loads of people out and about. FFS.

Hackney has third highest coronavirus death rate in country

Hackney has the third highest coronavirus mortality rate in England and Wales, according to the Office for National Statistics.

www.hackneygazette.co.uk

‘They're making it up as they go along’: confusion dilutes lockdown message

With picnics tolerated and even a pub doing takeaway drinks, it seems few in Hackney are obeying the stay-at-home rule

www.theguardian.com

 

[maomao]

Those are basically the same instructions we have had for the past couple of weeks but a bit vaguer. Keep contact to a minimum, stay at home as much as possible. No more "one exercise per day, no visiting relatives".

The population do not respond well to vague instructions. Everybody's reaction to the specific instructions was how to bend them. This is just moving responsibility onto the general public. It's going to be a disaster.

It's explicitly so the public can be blamed. They've already realised they've fucked this worse than any Western European nation and are already lining up scapegoats.

I'd be in favour of distributing free vegetable gardening equipment to help take the strain off the supermarkets.

 

[Petcha]

Went out briefly last night (first time in a week) and there were loads of people out and about. FFS.

Hackney has third highest coronavirus death rate in country

Hackney has the third highest coronavirus mortality rate in England and Wales, according to the Office for National Statistics.

www.hackneygazette.co.uk

‘They're making it up as they go along’: confusion dilutes lockdown message

With picnics tolerated and even a pub doing takeaway drinks, it seems few in Hackney are obeying the stay-at-home rule

www.theguardian.com

A bar within spitting distance of Brockwell Park (Canopy) was doing takeaway pints yesterday. Huge queue. Tbf if there wasn't a queue I'd have probably partaken myself.

 

[DaveCinzano]

2009 was Brown, surprised they haven’t gone all trumpian and desperately pointed the finger at ZaNu LIEbore.

If you're going there, the rules of engagement say you have to go all in

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Those are basically the same instructions we have had for the past couple of weeks but a bit vaguer. Keep contact to a minimum, stay at home as much as possible. No more "one exercise per day, no visiting relatives".

The population do not respond well to vague instructions. Everybody's reaction to the specific instructions was how to bend them. This is just moving responsibility onto the general public. It's going to be a disaster.

The disaster may be that the wrong things/people get blamed for the UK's lack of progress. Easing measures when new cases are still being found at a rate of 4k per day, having only ramped up testing to decent levels a week ago, means we're still learning where the ongoing problems are - mostly, it appears, centred around hospitals and inadequate infection control.

Other countries have started easing following significant drops in new cases, at which point they could at least say that their previous measures had enabled them to get on top of things. I don't really call 4k new cases a day 'on top of things'.

 

[Sasaferrato]

If by some cruel mistake, I had somehow ended up PM, I'd have stepped aside and nominated Elbows back in February.

That is called 'passing the buck' I believe.

 

[Sasaferrato]

We’ve had an enormous amount of discussion on here about different responses and the different models other countries have used.

That's the whole point really.

It really is a case of trying various strategies, eventually something will work.

Verry easy to sit on the sidelines and criticise, not so easy when you have to develop a strategy to get people back to work without provoking a second wave. Germany has had to reimpose lock down in some areas where things had been eased.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Line up the Labour front bench against a wall and shoot them


Country need some good news in this situation

FIFY

 

[Sasaferrato]

Those are basically the same instructions we have had for the past couple of weeks but a bit vaguer. Keep contact to a minimum, stay at home as much as possible. No more "one exercise per day, no visiting relatives".

The population do not respond well to vague instructions. Everybody's reaction to the specific instructions was how to bend them. This is just moving responsibility onto the general public. It's going to be a disaster.

You are absolutely right there.

 

[planetgeli]

As requested.

 

[maomao]

Seal the borders properly. Apply a firm but fair lockdown with heavy fines and a proper appeals process.

Invest in a proper contact tracing system, with or without an app, I'd take advice on that. But the aim would be eradication of the virus New Zealand style.

Send the army in to seize all private country estates and turn them over to food production as soon as possible to ensure the people's food supply.

A food commission set up to plan long term food supplies and to put rationing in place if required.

UBI immediately.

Cancel all credit card debts, rents and first home mortgages. Landlords who fall in mortgage arrears due to the above will have their properties taken over by the state and remain in the possession of their tenants.

All companies that can't afford to pay their workers to be nationalised by force and turned into workers' cooperatives with wages covered by state until working again.

That should do it for now.

 

[xenon]

What's the difference between that and Stay at Home?

You can go up the garden centre and go for a couple of jogs a day. Idealy on the way to work. Or sommat.

 

[Sasaferrato]

It's explicitly so the public can be blamed. They've already realised they've fucked this worse than any Western European nation and are already lining up scapegoats.

I'd be in favour of distributing free vegetable gardening equipment to help take the strain off the supermarkets.

If you compare like with like, it is a different picture. The UK counts all deaths, Spain and Italy are counting hospital deaths only, which is a vast under-count. Lombardy has experienced 180% excess deaths, which is a better measure.

I'm not saying though that the government's response has been perfect, it has been far from it, especially with regard to care homes. The Scottish health secretary decanted people from hospitals to care homes to free up beds. Those patients took the virus with them. The care home death rate in Scotland has been dreadful, and is nowhere near finished.

There have been over 1000 Scottish care home deaths so far.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That is called 'passing the buck' I believe.

Not really. The only sensible answer really is that I/we wouldn't have made such a hash of things in the first place, because my/our priorities/objectives would have been different from the start. There's a lot to be said for being broadly pro-people.

If I were to inherit this total mess today, my first job would be to spend some time examining all the issues in order to sort the mess out. I don't have the necessary information to hand to do that. I can see where some of the problems lie - lack of ppe, lack of correct infection protocols/not following the correct ones - but to work out the solutions would require a look at the detail.

At the very least, I'd be acknowledging that there is a problem here and things have not been done correctly to this point, which is more than anyone currently in government is prepared to do. That would be a start in and of itself.

Otherwise, Raheem's answer stands - if I had brought the country to this stage today in this current crisis, the only thing for me to do would be to resign. I'm clearly not up to the job.

 

[xenon]

Is this the roadmap out of lockdown, or is he gonna “address the nation” with that at some point later on? And if so anyone know what time? (Trying to plan my roast!).

Yeah some changes, the garden centre stuff, road map and at 7.

I'm joining a virtual comedy night at half 7.
So will have a few laughs...

Then watch some comedians.

 

[smokedout]

The garden centre stuff is probably also because they havent got much wiggle room in regards what to reopen, and stuff that is outdoors is generally less risky, so its one of the few things they could possibly do at this stage.

It's not less risky for the people who work in garden centres, and the associated distribution and production chains. They all have to get to work now, and spend all day around both colleagues and the public, including those who've decided social distancing isn't for them. And then go home to their families or people they live with.

It's a small sector and probably won't make a huge difference to overall national transmission, but every opening up of non essential production like this ramps up the number of people potentially exposed to some of the most likely means of transmission which are face to face contact and public transport, and there will be lots more people behind the scenes keeping these industries going than just those working the tills. I agree that there's probably very little direct risk to customers though.

Most of what we've seen the last few days - people chatting at appropriate distance in the streets, or sitting around in parks having a drink - whilst very visible and annoying to some is probably not that risky really. Going to work, getting on public transport and going to see family and friends in their home is. As well the push to do the first two, with ministers calling this week for construction and fast food to open up again as well as whatever happens tonight (and to the furlough scheme), they now seem to be taking a lax approach to the third. Limiting contact with other people can easily be read to mean go give your granny a hug, have a small birthday do and take the kids round to their friends to play, just you know, keep it down a bit. There seems to be little emphasis on curbing what we know is most likely to drive infection, I imagine because that would involve hard truths about the dangers of trying to get the economy back to normal and people back to work. I wasn't optimistic before but I think we might really be in trouble if they pursue this route.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

No, just another email from HMRC telling me to register for something I can't apply for yet, and for I which I already registered anyway.

Me too. Though it wasn't that hard, they seem to have made the process as awkward as they can. No link, just a message to go and search for the right page. Then a load of pointless text (stuff like, 'don't claim if the corona virus has not affected your business' and 'You can claim even if you are still working') before hitting the button that takes you to the place a link from the email should have. I am eligible apparently. Surely they just know that anyway from my tax records that I had to log into to check eligibility? They already have my phone, email, and bank details, they need all of them on file, why do they want them again?. So obviously after that you still have to register by filling in all your details again and your passport number for verification, even though they can only pay the money into your own account and they have already verified by email, text, your UTR and HMRC log in.
I 'think' I'll be getting the full amount, which is good, but not what I would have been earning during this period, and I doubt I will get anymore work this year.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Not really. The only sensible answer really is that I/we wouldn't have made such a hash of things in the first place, because my/our priorities/objectives would have been different from the start. There's a lot to be said for being broadly pro-people.

If I were to inherit this total mess today, my first job would be to spend some time examining all the issues in order to sort the mess out. I don't have the necessary information to hand to do that. I can see where some of the problems lie - lack of ppe, lack of correct infection protocols/not following the correct ones - but to work out the solutions would require a look at the detail.

At the very least, I'd be acknowledging that there is a problem here and things have not been done correctly to this point, which is more than anyone currently in government is prepared to do. That would be a start in and of itself.

Otherwise, Raheem's answer stands - if I had brought the country to this stage today in this current crisis, the only thing for me to do would be to resign. I'm clearly not up to the job.

The 'why' is for another day.*

What matters at the moment is the 'how'. I can only say that I am grateful that I don't have try and negotiate the way out of this, there is little point in protecting the populace if you kill their employment, there is little point in protecting the economy if you kill hundreds of thousands of people in doing so.

*There needs to be a thorough enquiry into what went wrong, and who was responsible, if for no other reason than one can have no confidence that this will not occur again.

 

[treelover]

Seven arrested out of 40 having a party, including children in Bolton, GMP twitter.

 

[keybored]

I'm joining a virtual comedy night at half 7.

Belly Laughs?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Me too. Though it wasn't that hard, they seem to have made the process as awkward as they can. No link, just a message to go and search for the right page. Then a load of pointless text (stuff like, 'don't claim if the corona virus has not affected your business' and 'You can claim even if you are still working') before hitting the button that takes you to the place a link from the email should have. I am eligible apparently. Surely they just know that anyway from my tax records that I had to log into to check eligibility? They already have my phone, email, and bank details, they need all of them on file, why do they want them again?. So obviously after that you still have to register by filling in all your details again and your passport number for verification, even though they can only pay the money into your own account and they have already verified by email, text, your UTR and HMRC log in.
I 'think' I'll be getting the full amount, which is good, but not what I would have been earning during this period, and I doubt I will get anymore work this year.

I usually make most of my money in March through to July so this 'average month' thing really fucks me. Also in the first year that gets taken into account I made fuck all, while the relatively lucrative year up to this April doesn't count. All in all if you couldn't apply online and had to send off an envelope with a stamp on it then I'd probably come off better by just keeping the stamp.

 

[treelover]

Seven people have been arrested following a birthday party in Bolton.

Shortly before 8pm on Saturday 9 May 2020, police were called to reports that a large group of people were fighting outside an address on Wemsley Grove, Tonge Moor.

www.gmp.police.uk

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The 'why' is for another day.*
What matters at the moment is the 'how'. I can only say that I am grateful that I don't have try and negotiate the way out of this, there is little point in protecting the populace if you kill their employment, there is little point in protecting the economy if you kill hundreds of thousands of people in doing so.

That's a false choice. The countries that have put saving lives first right from the start are the countries that are likely to suffer the least damage to their economies.

 

[gosub]

The 'why' is for another day.*

What matters at the moment is the 'how'. I can only say that I am grateful that I don't have try and negotiate the way out of this, there is little point in protecting the populace if you kill their employment, there is little point in protecting the economy if you kill hundreds of thousands of people in doing so.

*There needs to be a thorough enquiry into what went wrong, and who was responsible, if for no other reason than one can have no confidence that this will not occur again.

I am amazed you still have confidence in public enquires

 

[klang]

That's the whole point really.

.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's the whole point really.

It really is a case of trying various strategies, eventually something will work.

Verry easy to sit on the sidelines and criticise, not so easy when you have to develop a strategy to get people back to work without provoking a second wave. Germany has had to reimpose lock down in some areas where things had been eased.

afaik every country that is easing lockdown is doing so in a way that involves the provision for reimposition of measures locally or nationally if there are signs of R0 going above 1. If that is happening in certain parts of Germany, that's not a sign of failure or mistake. It's simply the process, and recognition that we're past a point where 'one size fits all' regarding lockdown.