Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[sheothebudworths]

@ sheothebudworths It really is and it doesn't seem to be spoken about much. And the people making the decisions are least likely to use it, so I don't trust their decision making.

Yeah, I don't know what I'm wittering on about, tbf - there's no fucking way I'd be attempting any commute on the tube right now - and OBVIOUSLY more people are going to be driving (those who can, at least) if they start insisting people go to work and/or people are facing the threat of a complete loss of income/their jobs if they don't (which is clearly the plan, with stopping furlough, the cunts).

 

[2hats]

Scotland has been no better than England, and in the case of care homes appears to be substantially worse.

Wrong.

 

[8ball]

View attachment 211868

Via

In the official Covid colours, too.

 

[sheothebudworths]

No 10 publishes Sage material originally redacted showing tougher lockdown proposals rejected by experts
On Friday my colleagues Paul Lewis and David Conn reported on how some members of Sage, the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies, were angered by the way the government readacted large chunks of a Sage document before publishing it last week.
UK scientists condemn 'Stalinist' attempt to censor Covid-19 advice


Read more
The scientists felt the redactions were unnecessary, because it seemed the content was just being hidden to prevent people learning that some government proposals had been dismissed by the experts, and at last one adviser was said to be considering resigning.
Now the government has relented - at least partially. This line has been added to the website page where all the Sage documents are published.

Material was redacted from this document in accordance with the standard principles governing Freedom of Information when it was first published. However Sir Patrick Vallance [the government’s chief scientific adviser) and No 10 agree that such Sage documents relating to Covid should be published in full, in the interests of maximum transparency, with exceptions only for matters relating to national security.

Here is the document (pdf). It is a meeting note, dated 1 April, prepared for a Sage meeting on 2 April.
The newly-released material is everything from point 3, starting with the headline: “Specific comments about new suggestions for improving adherence within the Framework (27 March)”. It shows Sage rejected three proposals to toughen the lockdown.
Here is the key extract.

The framework proposes four new suggestions for increasing adherence, numbered as options 17 to 20 that SPI-B have not commented on before. These focus on: 17) increasing the financial penalties imposed; 18) introducing self-validation for movements; 19) reducing exercise and/or shopping; 20) reducing non-home working. We have reservations about options 17 to 19.
First, we are unclear what the evidence base is that the targeted behaviours are a substantial contribution to disease transmission, particularly given the high adherence rates currently observed in the community. Is there evidence, for example, that exercise conducted more than 1km away from the house leads to higher rates of transmission than exercise conducted within 1km of the house? Indeed, for this option, there is a risk that reducing the ability of people to apply some flexibility in choosing where to exercise will increase risk by preventing people from spreading out in nearby open space. Tightening restrictions without clear epidemiological need may lose support among people who have been attempting to adhere.
Second, the implicit assumption underlying options 17 to 19 is that people lack motivation to adhere to current guidance. This may apply to some specific subgroups (the example of young men has been given), but broadly the current levels of adherence we are witnessing suggest this is not the issue.
Third, there are equity issues within options 17 to 19. Any flat rate financial penalty will have a higher impact on poorer households, while the assumption that printing and completing paperwork is straightforward for all households can also be challenged. The assumption underlying restrictions on shopping frequency is that people can afford to buy in larger quantities. The risk of tension arising as the police are required to start penalising those who are not adhering should also be factored into considerations.

 

[belboid]

In the official Covid colours, too.

not quite the right font though.

I've been trying to work it out, it seems to be a tweaked Arial, though the R &S aren't quite right. They're more like Deja Vu Sans, but the I's in that are quite different.

 

[8ball]

not quite the right font though.

I've been trying to work it out, it seems to be a tweaked Arial, though the R &S aren't quite right. They're more like Deja Vu Sans, but the I's in that are quite different.

It looks kind of "road sign" to me, though I'm not wise in the way of fonts.
Mostly wondering how many people also get the yellow and green thing (early 1970s synaesthetic cohort).

 

[cupid_stunt]

Scotland has been no better than England, and in the case of care homes appears to be substantially worse.

How many excess deaths in Scottish care homes?

According to the ONS it was about 16,000, up to a couple of weeks ago, in England & Wales, only 6,000 logged as being due to C-19.

 

[8ball]

How many excess deaths in Scottish care homes?

According to the ONS it was about 16,000, up to a couple of weeks ago, in England & Wales, only 6,000 logged as being due to C-19.

We must be ahead of the States in the 'per capita' category.

 

[Raheem]

In the official Covid colours, too.

The most famous Norwich supporter right now.

 

[quimcunx]

Regardless of covid they could do more to discourage cars. With covid complicating public transport as a solution do more to encourage lone travellers to use one/two person vehicles. Bikes electric bikes mopeds electric scooters.

If you can afford a £5000 car you can afford a £4000 car and another transport device.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

With Self Employment payments does anyone know if you are eligible if you took other work. I've taken on PAYE agency stuff to support myself with all my work being cancelled. Obviously would be nice to get something on top.

Apparently I find out Thursday anyway...

 

[SpookyFrank]

With Self Employment payments does anyone know if you are eligible if you took other work. I've taken on PAYE agency stuff to support myself with all my work being cancelled. Obviously would be nice to get something on top.

Apparently I find out Thursday anyway...

I think eligibility is based on having a history of income from self-employment, and not so much what you're actually earning now. You're supposed to claim only if your income has been affected but anyone can say that and there's no real way of checking.

As long as you've delcared everything and answered whatever they ask honestly you should be fine.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I think eligibility is based on having a history of income from self-employment, and not so much what you're actually earning now. You're supposed to claim only if your income has been affected but anyone can say that and there's no real way of checking.

As long as you've delcared everything and answered whatever they ask honestly you should be fine.

Ta. Guess I'll see. Would certainly be handy. Been doing 50 to 70 hour weeks, for a while now, would be great to do some thing like normal hours.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

If by some cruel mistake, I had somehow ended up PM, I'd have stepped aside and nominated Elbows back in February.

I’d have nominated elbows for PM back last November.

 

[cupid_stunt]

With Self Employment payments does anyone know if you are eligible if you took other work.

Nobody knows, not even my accountant, let alone SpookyFrank, because the full details haven't been released, it should be more clear come Friday, when you can make a claim.

Probably best to keep this conversation to the specific thread, it'll get lost on this one.

Freelancers during this crisis and the Self Employment Income Support Scheme

Ive been self employed for 12 years, never tried to keep profits deliberately low, still working through this, not sure I've suffered 'hardship', but I'm certainly claiming this freebie when they screw us with national insurance next time. do you write music?

www.urban75.net

 

[andysays]

Went out briefly last night (first time in a week) and there were loads of people out and about. FFS.

Hackney has third highest coronavirus death rate in country

Hackney has the third highest coronavirus mortality rate in England and Wales, according to the Office for National Statistics.

www.hackneygazette.co.uk

‘They're making it up as they go along’: confusion dilutes lockdown message

With picnics tolerated and even a pub doing takeaway drinks, it seems few in Hackney are obeying the stay-at-home rule

www.theguardian.com

Looks like the Guardian believes that Broadway Market is representative of Hackney, and everyone who lives there is a media consultant or an interior designer

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

To be honest some garden centres have been open even before the announcement, my sister said she went to one last weekend.

There's plenty that sell food and/or hardware so those ones always had the option to stay open I guess.

 

[MickiQ]

Don't fall for this shit, lots of people already know that when furlough ends at the end of June, many of them won't have jobs to go back to.

Almost certainly but some will, no matter who is No 10, the belief that every job can be saved was never a realistic one.

 

[Sasaferrato]

How many excess deaths in Scottish care homes?

According to the ONS it was about 16,000, up to a couple of weeks ago, in England & Wales, only 6,000 logged as being due to C-19.

It is hard to find figures.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Not sure if I agree the strategy is still herd immunity but fuck knows at this point. It's amazing how something so startlingly obvious as using different colours can go unnoticed though.

'Go, go on break the lockdown you're half way there anyway!'

 

[prunus]

Utter bunch of useless venal fucking cunts. Totally unworkable pointless and self-defeating set of ‘proposals’, and a roadmap to dismal failure and nothing else.

Just wanted to get this out there in advance of 7pm as I have a premonition I’m going to be too apoplectic to type then.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I think eligibility is based on having a history of income from self-employment, and not so much what you're actually earning now. You're supposed to claim only if your income has been affected but anyone can say that and there's no real way of checking.

As long as you've delcared everything and answered whatever they ask honestly you should be fine.

Having spent eight years making the self employed cough up what they were due in tax, this is going to be interesting. The chronic under-declarers are going to lose out, so are those who choose to take dividends (at 7.5% tax and no NI) rather than a salary.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Not sure if I agree the strategy is still herd immunity but fuck knows at this point. It's amazing how something so startlingly obvious as using different colours can go unnoticed though.

'Go, go on break the lockdown you're half way there anyway!'

It's up to each of us what we do. I will not be coming out of lock down for at least another month. Isolation is the only way to avoid this bloody plague.

I can appreciate that the younger and fitter amongst us are desperate for life to recommence, but this wrinklie doubts if he would survive an attack of Covid 19.

 

[Sue]

It's up to each of us what we do. I will not be coming out of lock down for at least another month. Isolation is the only way to avoid this bloody plague.

I can appreciate that the younger and fitter amongst us are desperate for life to recommence, but this wrinklie doubts if he would survive an attack if Covid 19.

Some people may not have much of a choice -- it'll be go to work and put yourself at risk or not have a job to go to.

 

[Sasaferrato]

We must be ahead of the States in the 'per capita' category.

Greater London has an area of 605 square miles, and a population of 8.9 million.

New Jersey has roughly the same population, but has an area of 8,722 square miles.

I would imagine that outside of the big population density areas, there will be places in the states where there hasn't been a case in 100 miles.

When you look at the UK, all the 'hot spots' are in areas of large population density.

Islay, island, 4500 pop, zero cases. 238 square miles.

 

[Raheem]

Not sure if I agree the strategy is still herd immunity but fuck knows at this point. It's amazing how something so startlingly obvious as using different colours can go unnoticed though.

'Go, go on break the lockdown you're half way there anyway!'

The advice does seem to overlap a bit with what was being fed in the initial 'herd immunity' phase. Emphasis on hand washing and noticeably flexible form of social distancing, plus go back to work.

 

[sheothebudworths]

 

[little_legs]

Almost certainly but some will, no matter who is No 10, the belief that every job can be saved was never a realistic one.

The job losses will happen because of government's inaction, incompetence, and frankly, PM's diseased brain. So if you think it wouldn't have mattered anyway, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

It's up to each of us what we do. I will not be coming out of lock down for at least another month. Isolation is the only way to avoid this bloody plague.

I can appreciate that the younger and fitter amongst us are desperate for life to recommence, but this wrinklie doubts if he would survive an attack if Covid 19.

It's not up to each of us what we do. It's up to the government to give clear and concise messaging as to what we do to avoid catching and spreading the virus. It's up to the government to give clear and concise messaging as to what we can and can't do during lockdown. Protect the population and steer them through a crisis, that should be the main goal. Instead we've had let them take it on the chin... Oh actually maybe not... Start testing... Oh actually let's not bother.... We've got loads of PPE... Oh actually we haven't... You can do this if you like during lockdown... Oh actually maybe you shouldn't but you can sort of do that.

I'm younger and fitter than you I expect and yes, I want life to recommence, I live alone in a city none of my family live in and I'm desperate to leave it so I can go and see them but I can't because I risk bringing the virus into their house where two of them are at risk. The more the government dicks about with its vague bollocks the longer we all have to wait for life to recommence.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Some people may not have much of a choice -- it'll be go to work and put yourself at risk or not have a job to go to.

I do appreciate that. Both Mrs Sas and me are very grateful indeed that work isn't a consideration.