existentialist
Tired and unemotional
All done and returned, got the result this morning - negative.
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
That must be frustrating, in a way. At least A positive result would mean okay, got it, deal with it. Least I get antibodies.
Hope you’re feeling better soon anyway, whatever it is.
(Apologies for this derail, and for quoting the above from page 1476 -- am still on-catch-up with this thread
-- but ... )Xmas already is in summer as far as myself and other mad/bonkers festival types are concerned
To me, Glastonbury 2022 will happen despite what's happening now. Six months away from this boring, standard "Xmas" after all.
Happy Real Xmas! everybody!
Last edited:
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Having a non-zero viral load does not mean you have a sufficiently high viral load to be infectious to others.
That and the LFTs just aren't that great.
elbows
Well-Known Member
No solid claims can yet be made about the level of protection from severe disease and death that vaccines offer against Omicron.
Boosters do not offer complete protection against any infection at all, they restore some of the previously seen protection on all fronts, and probably enhance certain immune responses beyond levels seen after initial 2 doses. But 100% protection against infection is not part of the covid vaccine picture at this time, no matter which licensed vaccine or strain of covid we are talking about.
presumably they're vaccinated, and the vaccine is giving one of them more protection than the other. or one of them's doing the lateral flow tests wrong.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
AIUI Covid isn't so infectious that it's vanishingly unlikely that would happen. It's not something that's been discussed really because for obvious reasons the message that has been put over is 'be super careful at all times' but it's not like the rage virus in 28 days later or anything like that.
Or one of them has already had it or people just have different immune responses to stuff?
(I've a friend like this. He's WFH, has barely been out, managed to catch it and was pretty ill. His partner tested negative and has been teaching in a school throughout, dealing with loads of kids a day. I think being a teacher for 20 years probably means she's nails.)
smmudge
i know the smudge is true
Yeah I think it's a number of factors between the person infected, and the person not infected, and then maybe the tests.
When my dad got it, he was quite symptomatic so I would assume infectious, but my double jabbed mum tested negative with a PCR.
With my sister in law's household, her husband, eldest and middle son got it but no symptoms. My double jabbed sister in law and not jabbed at all youngest son tested negative with PCRs.
So probably more likely that they 'got' it but their immune systems fought it off effectively that even a PCR didn't detect it.
When my dad got it, he was quite symptomatic so I would assume infectious, but my double jabbed mum tested negative with a PCR.
With my sister in law's household, her husband, eldest and middle son got it but no symptoms. My double jabbed sister in law and not jabbed at all youngest son tested negative with PCRs.
So probably more likely that they 'got' it but their immune systems fought it off effectively that even a PCR didn't detect it.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
That's pretty much our situation.
Me and my wife are both triple vaxxed. She's tested negative daily despite me and my daughter both having it and living in a small terrace....but she's been in school throughout.
Whereas my visits to school or campus have been much more sporadic and masked/distanced the whole time.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I've already linked to this news in another thread where the possibility came up in conversation some days before it actually happened, but I suppose it should go in this UK thread too:
I dont consider this to be ideal but it is the sort of balancing act that authorities feel the need to do when the level of disruption caused by self-isolation is extremely high. Countries that prioritise minimising the number of infections, and bringing in other measures to keep numbers down, are much less likely to have to do this. But of course the UK has quite different priorities, and so we find ourselves in this predicament, with these resulting compromises.
Covid: Self-isolation cut from 10 days to seven with negative tests
The new rules in England mean some people could end their self-isolation in time for Christmas.
www.bbc.co.uk
I dont consider this to be ideal but it is the sort of balancing act that authorities feel the need to do when the level of disruption caused by self-isolation is extremely high. Countries that prioritise minimising the number of infections, and bringing in other measures to keep numbers down, are much less likely to have to do this. But of course the UK has quite different priorities, and so we find ourselves in this predicament, with these resulting compromises.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I feel like a wimp turning down my sister's 4 generation festive science experiment - but even my 85 year old mother has been a participant for ages - whereas I have been living with only my own bacteria for company - I hope one day I will feel able to be a good great-uncle to the 8 year old but for the moment I view him with suspicion even on Facebook ...
Last edited:
editor
hiraethified
I've already linked to this news in another thread where the possibility came up in conversation some days before it actually happened, but I suppose it should go in this UK thread too:
Covid: Self-isolation cut from 10 days to seven with negative tests
The new rules in England mean some people could end their self-isolation in time for Christmas.www.bbc.co.uk
I dont consider this to be ideal but it is the sort of balancing act that authorities feel the need to do when the level of disruption caused by self-isolation is extremely high. Countries that prioritise minimising the number of infections, and bringing in other measures to keep numbers down, are much less likely to have to do this. But of course the UK has quite different priorities, and so we find ourselves in this predicament, with these resulting compromises.
I think it's a reasonable compromise. I tested negative three times by the end of the week and it was extremely frustrating being stuck in for another three days.
I also think that some people might be more likely to stick to the rules if it's only a week's isolation.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Outbreaks in hospitals are unsurprisingly on the rise.
www.theguardian.com
Suspected Covid outbreaks in UK hospitals double in a week
Exclusive: official figures show 66 acute respiratory infection incidents in hospitals in week to 16 December
elbows
Well-Known Member
On that same subject, I only have some very basic data avilable in terms of patients who quite possibly caught the virus in hospital. I have to subtract the figures from one table of data from another table of data to get these. The results are likely a big undercount, but they do at least provide a guide to trends. And sure enough the numbers in London are ballooning. I have that data going back to August 2020 so here it is, with the recent rise in London not subtle.
Note that this stuff is also related to why, when I do graphs of daily hospital admissions, I describe them as hospital admissions/diagnoses. Those overall daily numbers include people that were hospitalised for other reasons but then test positive for covid. Some of them already had covid before admission and some of them caught it in hospital. This does complicate our ability to use daily hospital admission figures as a complete guide to how many people are being hospitalised for covid. However people who catch it in hospital do represent a fair chunk of the mortality burden during pandemic waves, they are often vulnerable to the severe consequences of the disease, so it would not be fair to try to remove them from the picture just because they were initially hospitalised for other reasons. These days the NHS does also provide some figures which attempt to judge what proportion of people with covid in hospital beds are actually in hospital for covid and non-covid reasons. This data is imperfect but if the proportions shown by that data change notably then I will post some of that data and talk about it.
Note that this stuff is also related to why, when I do graphs of daily hospital admissions, I describe them as hospital admissions/diagnoses. Those overall daily numbers include people that were hospitalised for other reasons but then test positive for covid. Some of them already had covid before admission and some of them caught it in hospital. This does complicate our ability to use daily hospital admission figures as a complete guide to how many people are being hospitalised for covid. However people who catch it in hospital do represent a fair chunk of the mortality burden during pandemic waves, they are often vulnerable to the severe consequences of the disease, so it would not be fair to try to remove them from the picture just because they were initially hospitalised for other reasons. These days the NHS does also provide some figures which attempt to judge what proportion of people with covid in hospital beds are actually in hospital for covid and non-covid reasons. This data is imperfect but if the proportions shown by that data change notably then I will post some of that data and talk about it.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Yes, I don't think we've seen anything like a peak in West Wales yet. It could peter out at about Bridgend, as the first wave did, but with the increasing infectivity of omicron, and a general ennui around precautions, I wouldn't be too hopeful.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I'm not surprised if they've decided to base their actions and inactions on hospital admissions data for London. And so this story does not surprise me:
29m ago 11:56
I would add that cases in older age groups have been rising rapidly in this Omicron wave in London, but slightly delayed compared to younger cases. So these sorts of exercises in judging matters via real hospital data from the earliest affected region will also need to be repeated again after allowing a bit more time for older cases to translate to hospitalisations.
29m ago 11:56
I would add that cases in older age groups have been rising rapidly in this Omicron wave in London, but slightly delayed compared to younger cases. So these sorts of exercises in judging matters via real hospital data from the earliest affected region will also need to be repeated again after allowing a bit more time for older cases to translate to hospitalisations.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I'll give Wales a bonus point for this:
Covid: Only six people allowed to meet in pubs in Wales
There will be strict limits on the number of people who can meet in pubs, restaurants and cinemas.
www.bbc.co.uk
miktheword
Well-Known Member
This may help answer some of the queries above concerning why some prolonged close contacts don't test positive
www.theguardian.com
Wed 10 Nov 2021 16.45 GMT
We all know that person who, despite their entire household catching Covid-19, has never tested positive for the disease. Now scientists have found an explanation, showing that a proportion of people experience “abortive infection” in which the virus enters the body but is cleared by the immune system’s T-cells at the earliest stage meaning that PCR and antibody tests record a negative result.
About 15% of healthcare workers who were tracked during the first wave of the pandemic in London, England, appeared to fit this scenario.
People testing negative for Covid-19 despite exposure may have ‘immune memory’
Study says some individuals clear virus rapidly due to a strong immune response from existing T-cells, meaning tests record negative result
Wed 10 Nov 2021 16.45 GMT
We all know that person who, despite their entire household catching Covid-19, has never tested positive for the disease. Now scientists have found an explanation, showing that a proportion of people experience “abortive infection” in which the virus enters the body but is cleared by the immune system’s T-cells at the earliest stage meaning that PCR and antibody tests record a negative result.
About 15% of healthcare workers who were tracked during the first wave of the pandemic in London, England, appeared to fit this scenario.
mwgdrwg
Be a Pisces. Jam.
New restrictions in Wales from Boxing Day
Sports all behind closed doors too.
It'll be strange seeing 60,000 fans at a Premier League game on the telly.
Covid: Only six people allowed to meet in pubs in Wales
There will be strict limits on the number of people who can meet in pubs, restaurants and cinemas.
www.bbc.co.uk
Sports all behind closed doors too.
It'll be strange seeing 60,000 fans at a Premier League game on the telly.
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
That would probably explain how my Sis-i-L managed to avoid it, when everyone else in the [3-generation] household had it. Brought in by the youngest sprog, probably from play/school.This may help answer some of the queries above concerning why some prolonged close contacts don't test positive
People testing negative for Covid-19 despite exposure may have ‘immune memory’
Study says some individuals clear virus rapidly due to a strong immune response from existing T-cells, meaning tests record negative result
Wed 10 Nov 2021 16.45 GMT
We all know that person who, despite their entire household catching Covid-19, has never tested positive for the disease. Now scientists have found an explanation, showing that a proportion of people experience “abortive infection” in which the virus enters the body but is cleared by the immune system’s T-cells at the earliest stage meaning that PCR and antibody tests record a negative result.
About 15% of healthcare workers who were tracked during the first wave of the pandemic in London, England, appeared to fit this scenario.
Hey it's ok gentlegreen - you are making a decision that is right for you - and it's an understandable, sensible decision. And your family members are making the decisions that suit them. Hopefully everyone will accept each others choice, even if they don't fully understand it.
I wonder if the suspicion you feel could be reframed as concern your nephew could be carrying the virus. I'm guessing it's the virus not the boy that is troubling you!
And perhaps you could tell someone in the family that you are looking forward to being a good uncle once risks have settled down. It's lovely think to be hoping for!
Maybe you could suggest a short meet with them in the local playground one day before new year, or maybe that's too soon for you to be mixing.
Be kinder to yourself - I don't think you're a wimp!
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
It's not just covid - I haven't benefited from the regular informal vaccinations I got when I was handling public computer keyboards in a university ...
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I'm not exactly a keen watcher of the experts and the data, but there seems to have been a notable shift in the last 3 days or so. There were fairly clear messages from Whitty and, I think, Sage about taking action quickly, which the cabinet ignored. Since then the mood music seems to have shifted from the experts, for example I heard the news in the car and there were 2 of them saying 'we need to wait for the data, which might be another 2 weeks'. Also, Omicron might not be as bad, though... we don't know yet.
I'm sure that's all true, but the shift seems to have been 'it may be bad, so we need to act now' to 'we don't know, so we shouldn't act now'. Are they just asking different experts?
I'm sure that's all true, but the shift seems to have been 'it may be bad, so we need to act now' to 'we don't know, so we shouldn't act now'. Are they just asking different experts?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
All of which, mood music wise, sounds very different to this:
NHS may set up ‘field hospitals’ in car parks to cope with Omicron
Hospital canteens, offices and meeting rooms could also be turned into wards if health service is overwhelmed
elbows
Well-Known Member
It is mostly just different experts being asked, and narratives being tuned to fit the policies the government chose.
If there is to be a broader shift in expert opinion then more time is required before that becomes the case. And there may be additional lag to that happening, assuming that hospital data doesnt get published as much over Christmas.
Personally when looking for optimism, so far I am mostly reliant on the idea that very widespread behavioural changes have occured in recent weeks, plus the pace of the booster programme, plus further nuancing of estimates in regards how well the vaccines still hold up against Omicron. None of this is sufficient to actually make me properly optimistic yet, but I certainly havent been pummelled by new reasons to be gloomy beyond those already provided by early modelling.
If there is to be a broader shift in expert opinion then more time is required before that becomes the case. And there may be additional lag to that happening, assuming that hospital data doesnt get published as much over Christmas.
Personally when looking for optimism, so far I am mostly reliant on the idea that very widespread behavioural changes have occured in recent weeks, plus the pace of the booster programme, plus further nuancing of estimates in regards how well the vaccines still hold up against Omicron. None of this is sufficient to actually make me properly optimistic yet, but I certainly havent been pummelled by new reasons to be gloomy beyond those already provided by early modelling.
Similar threads
