Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Teaboy]

The travel situation has just been shit from day one. A system based entirely on trust was always going to be useless. The traffic light system has been shit as well and was just a knee jerk reaction to teh government being embarrassed about India and the Delta variant being prolifically spread throughout the UK. The actual list is nakedly political and its just further fucking the travel industry without keeping the country any safer.

You have to ask really why they are bothered by people coming into the country with Delta when they are doing next to nothing to control it here?

 

[elbows]

At this point it will be other variants that necessitate border/travel genomic surveillance. Delta is what made their expert advisors demand a better system on this front at the time, but the underlying principal remains long after Delta came to dominate here.

 

[cupid_stunt]

As expected, the CMO's have approved jabs for those over 12.

UK children aged 12 to 15 to be offered Covid jab

UK’s four chief medical officers decide to set aside view of vaccine watchdog that benefits of jabs were too minimal to justify them

www.theguardian.com

 

[miss direct]

I'm going to be even more upset about lack of masks when I come back from Turkey, aren't I? I quite enjoyed telling a government worker off here yesterday as he kept taking his mask off to talk to me.

 

[Teaboy]

At this point it will be other variants that necessitate border/travel genomic surveillance. Delta is what made their expert advisors demand a better system on this front at the time, but the underlying principal remains long after Delta came to dominate here.

That's what we should have but we don't have it with the current system. Hopefully when they change it in the near future it will be more fit for purpose.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Predictions are harder these days. I'll wait for formal announcements tomorrow. It does seem like they are making a very large show of all the stuff they are abandoning, probably in order to deal with tory party politics as much as anything. So I will be sure to pay special attention to what quietly remains on the books.

Could it be they have a conference coming up?

 

[Teaboy]

As expected, the CMO's have approved jabs for those over 12.

UK children aged 12 to 15 to be offered Covid jab

UK’s four chief medical officers decide to set aside view of vaccine watchdog that benefits of jabs were too minimal to justify them

www.theguardian.com

It will be interesting to see what the take-up is like. The risk / reward calculation seems to get more difficult the younger the person is.

 

[thismoment]

I've just had our 'riskiest' activity since this all began: Hamilton in packed theatre on Friday, though we were at back and not surrounded on all sides - almost 0 mask wearing. Went to a fringe show this morning, although that was a much smaller, with spread out audience.

I am keeping an eye on my NHS app - it is Yom Kippur later this week and although all services are masked, I will not go to any or have family over to break fast, if I get pinged even though I'm vaccinated. gsv had two days in the office this week and found his colleague had been exposed the two days before by someone else there, but the guy gsv worked with was negative fortunately. I guess this is where vaccines help - there's not such a sense of inevitability if people are exposed.

People are still good with masks in shops around here, but are getting really shit on the tube. If you get on at a busy time, still pretty good, but a lot of people don't seem to bother if it's quieter, even when it gets busy subsequently. My heart sinks slightly now when I hear loud conversation as people get on, as that inevitably means a group none of whom will wear a mask.

Glad you got to see Hamilton, I’ve been debating it forever! Regarding the tube…. Just go off the tube and I countered 3 out of 11 people wearing masks. I was one of the 3. Guess some people have had it with mixed messaging are just doing what they want. Although I thought you had to wear masks on the tube

 

[Cloo]

Yes, it's supposed to be mandatory, but there aren't enough staff to enforce and when, like you, you're one of the 3 out of 11 bothering it's pretty difficult to mount any sort of pressure to get others to do so.

 

[thismoment]

Yeah, I really do emphasise with the train/TfL staff. I had a bit of a laugh when on my train a dad looked up from his phone to declare to his daughter that her test had just come back and it was negative. Neither where wearing masks but hey, it could’ve been negative something else, right! Also if the daughter was symptomless then it’s ok. That was some journey home!

 

[elbows]

Could it be they have a conference coming up?

They have to get some stuff through parliament soon and thats what I was thinking of. But yes, when it comes to party politics conferences are also something that needs to be navigated.

 

[teuchter]

Glad you got to see Hamilton, I’ve been debating it forever! Regarding the tube…. Just go off the tube and I countered 3 out of 11 people wearing masks. I was one of the 3. Guess some people have had it with mixed messaging are just doing what they want. Although I thought you had to wear masks on the tube

There's not really mixed messaging on the Tube and TfL generally - there are plenty of signs as well as recorded announcements telling people they should still be wearing masks.

 

[Cloo]

There's not really mixed messaging on the Tube and TfL generally - there are plenty of signs as well as recorded announcements telling people they should still be wearing masks.

Yes, it's perfectly damn clear but maybe some people are assuming the signs on tubes are just left there from before and all the rules have gone now.

 

[Ninja]

Yes, it's perfectly damn clear but maybe some people are assuming the signs on tubes are just left there from before and all the rules have gone now.

Or it maybe simply people have grown tired and weary about covid now and want a return to 'the old normal'.

 

[Cloo]

Or it maybe simply people have grown tired and weary about covid now and want a return to 'the old normal'.

Definitely a degree of that.

I've spent some of time today looking back in anger at this time last year and at why the fuck the government couldn't have done the sensible thing and told people to prepare for a Christmas with just their household and for school closures over winter. They should really be doing the same this year too, but they won't. I mean, it was a novel virus with no reliably effective treatment and (at the time) no vaccine, and no one had magicked up 4 times as many NHS hospitals and staff in the meantime. There was clearly no way winter would not be worse than spring; I'm not a scientist, but I knew this. But I guess a) they wanted to 'Save Christmas' and b) they wanted people to spend money on Christmas stuff. They knew fucking well that Christmas was not going to be fine. Winter would still have been bad, but 10,000s fewer would have died, i'm betting.

 

[Cerv]

There's not really mixed messaging on the Tube and TfL generally - there are plenty of signs as well as recorded announcements telling people they should still be wearing masks.

mixed messaging in that the national government said masks were no longer required, but then the local London government issued a contradictory directive for their part only.

can imagine that a lot of people genuinely didn't know or remember that masks are supposed to be required still. and with the low compliance you're not necessarily going to twig like you would if 99% of others on your carriage were wearing them.

 

[Orang Utan]

Or it maybe simply people have grown tired and weary about covid now and want a return to 'the old normal'.

well they can’t

 

[Riklet]

Yeah, this kinda wistful childish nostalgia is pissing me off. People of all ages guilty of it.. surprised at the number of selfish old fuckers that dont bother on the bus or in the local shop tho! Mask wearing round here is probably better than some areas but still pretty 50/50 at best.

I really resent this "I wont be opressed with this minor inconvenience" selfish attitude. And it obviously spirals cos loads of shop and takeaway staff here (in a large village) have stopped wearing masks.. so customers dont either, so other people see it and think "fuck it".

I am continuing to wear a mask and only going to places with good ventilation/door open for the moment.

 

[oryx]

Yeah, this kinda wistful childish nostalgia is pissing me off. People of all ages guilty of it.. surprised at the number of selfish old fuckers that dont bother on the bus or in the local shop tho! Mask wearing round here is probably better than some areas but still pretty 50/50 at best.

I really resent this "I wont be opressed with this minor inconvenience" selfish attitude. And it obviously spirals cos loads of shop and takeaway staff here (in a large village) have stopped wearing masks.. so customers dont either, so other people see it and think "fuck it".

I am continuing to wear a mask and only going to places with good ventilation/door open for the moment.

This, and also it's hardly arduous or an assault on 'freedom' to wear a mask (everyone knows those with serious reason not to like severe asthma or PTSD are exempt), or keep a reasonable distance where possible.

There are so many other curtailments on freedom such as CCTV everywhere, privatisation of public space, tracking by big data, restrictions on the right to protest etc. etc. and I bet the anti-mask, anti-'rules' brigade do fuck all about this.

(Probably belongs on the other thread TBH).

 

[Sunray]

I've been reading and watching people say its now endemic. There is no getting rid of it as the vaccinated can get it again and they spread it the same as unvaccinated.
Germany is stopping free testing next month because what's the point of knowing numbers if most of them just recover. Obviously test sick people. Hospitalisation and deaths are still important.

Unless we go into 8 weeks of lockdown, which is never going to happen with this embarrassment of a government. I can't see how to do much about this? So everyone is going to get exposed to C-19 and there isn't much to be done.
On a positive note. It does seems it's possible to be robustly immune to COVID-19. I've been in crowds some huge, all summer. Nothing. Couple of weeks ago I was partying for hours at a festival with someone who tested positive the >very next day<. Sitting right next to each other chatting. Doing lines of K and sharing the shovel etc. Plus hanging out on and off for the whole weekend.

Thought this is it. Going going to get it again. She was rough but is fine now. Delta is super infectious and I clearly breathed loads of it in for hours. Nothing. Tested negative. Nobody around us got it either, just her. Some people felt so shit after 4 days hard parting, they got a PCR test (lol), negative.

So I am hopeful this will become how most people's immune systems end up and we can go back to worrying about flu.
Its interesting the schools have gone back and cases seem to be going down a bit.

 

[Ninja]

When presented with a potential threat (and especially whose actual level of threat is hard to assess) not all people react the same way as is simple human nature.

There is no guarantee others will react the same as yourself and assess that risk the same as yourself. Furthermore, even if they assess the risk similar to yourself they may still judge it not sufficiently high to compromise parts of their life that's important to them.

Eg. Some people baulk in horror at the thought of riding a motorbike at high speed due to the risk, while others knowingly take that risk because the love the thrill.

 

[two sheds]

When presented with a potential threat (and especially whose actual level of threat is hard to assess) not all people react the same way as is simple human nature.

There is no guarantee others will react the same as yourself and assess that risk the same as yourself. Furthermore, even if they assess the risk similar to yourself they may still judge it not sufficiently high to compromise parts of their life that's important to them.

Eg. Some people baulk in horror at the thought of riding a motorbike at high speed due to the risk, while others knowingly take that risk because the love the thrill.

This is true, although riding a motorbike at high speed (although in practice brings much less risk to others than motorists do to bikers) can bring risk to others. How does that fit in?

 

[Orang Utan]

When presented with a potential threat (and especially whose actual level of threat is hard to assess) not all people react the same way as is simple human nature.

There is no guarantee others will react the same as yourself and assess that risk the same as yourself. Furthermore, even if they assess the risk similar to yourself they may still judge it not sufficiently high to compromise parts of their life that's important to them.

Eg. Some people baulk in horror at the thought of riding a motorbike at high speed due to the risk, while others knowingly take that risk because the love the thrill.

so? none of this makes the need to carry on taking minor precautions go away.

 

[Ninja]

To the last two posters....people simply assess risk differently to yourselves.

 

[Orang Utan]

To the last two posters....people simply assess risk differently to yourselves.

that’s irrelevant

 

[two sheds]

To the last two posters....people simply assess risk differently to yourselves.

?
Just to confirm that (your example) motor cyclists travelling at high speed can cause risks for others?

But that's ok

 

[Ninja]

To the last two posters it still comes down to a diversity of they way people assess risks and dangers.
I could list endless examples of people taking risks where others don't but the point ultimately still ends up being they are essentially not you.

 

[two sheds]

Well yes but it's down to the objective rather than subjective risk.

For example I'm classed as vulnerable. If you have coronavirus but are classed as not vulnerable, you're of no risk to yourself but could be of great risk to me. Why would you not wear masks/get vaccinated to reduce the risk to me?

 

[teuchter]

To the last two posters....people simply assess risk differently to yourselves.

If yourself must come on here to repeatedly inform ourselves of the obvious, could myself request that yourself please refrains from abusing reflexive pronouns. Thankyourself.

 

[elbows]

Germany is stopping free testing next month because what's the point of knowing numbers if most of them just recover. Obviously test sick people. Hospitalisation and deaths are still important.

That is not why Germany is stopping free tests at all. Its to try to encourage more people to get vaccinated. And those who do not get vaccinated and dont have proof of prior infection will face a greater testing burden in order to be allowed entry into certain settings.

To nudge more people to get vaccinated amid concerns about a rise in new cases, Merkel said the government will stop offering free tests from Oct. 11, except for those for whom vaccination is not recommended, such as children and pregnant women.

The government will also require people to be either vaccinated, test negative or have a recovery certificate to enter indoor restaurants, participate in religious ceremonies and do indoor sport.

Germany to end free Covid-19 testing in bid to boost vaccination

Germany’s coronavirus vaccination drive has slowed and those people who have not taken up the opportunity to have shots will have to take COVID-19 tests to take a full part in public life, Chancellor…

www.france24.com