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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

Pickman's model said:
ventilators up to £25k apparently

think the vaccination is more than a fiver a pop tho
Click to expand...

AZ for Belgium was e1.78
www.businessinsider.com

A politician tweeted a list showing how much the EU has agreed to pay for the leading vaccines, confirming rumors of Moderna's sky-high price

At the top end, the EU agrees to pay Moderna $22.06 per dose while paying $2.18 per dose for AstraZeneca's.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

But the Gov is giving £12 to GP's per patient I hear so hard to quantify.
 
nagapie said:
What I find most endearing about you is how you defend a race to the bottom. It's ok for the Uk to be shit because others are.

Covax is woefully inadequate, see my other post to the other person defending vaccine inequality.
Click to expand...


I'm not defending a race to the bottom at all. I'm just pointing out that, if everyone else is racing to the bottom and we don't, then people here will die who don't need to. You might be ok with letting British citizens die needlessly, but I'm not, and nor should the government be, especially now they actually have a chance to save lives after they contributed to so many dying already.

Covax may be woefully inadequate or it may not be, but it's still better to be part of it than to not be. Also as I said, we have purchased and distributed, and will continue to distribute, vaccines to Commonwealth countries separately from Covax. Gibraltar for instance, has already become the first national entity in the world to vaccinate its entire adult population, thanks to supplies paid for, purchased by, and sent from the UK. Maybe you think they should have had to go through the fucked up mess of EU procurement but I bet they're pretty glad they didn't.
 
MJ100 said:
Maybe you think they [Gibraltar] should have had to go through the fucked up mess of EU procurement but I bet they're pretty glad they didn't.
Click to expand...

Wikipedia said:
Gibraltar is not part of the UK, but contrary to all other British Overseas Territories was a part of the European Union like the UK. It participated in the Brexit referendum and it ceased, by default, to be a part of the EU upon the UK's withdrawal
Click to expand...

Wiki link : "Effect of Brexit on Gibraltar"

Just saying .... :) ... and not saying that you were assertimg to the contrary, but that part of your post was not clear.

ETA, just remembered : And Gibraltar voted 94% (or so) remain in the EU-Ref ....
 
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I've not been paying that much attention to the stats this last week, because they all seemed to be going in the right direction, so just looking at the dashboard & worldometers for the 7-day averages, I see there's a lot of positives this week.

New cases yesterday were 4,802, down -8.7% in the last week, bringing the 7-day average down to 5,343 - a figure not seen since the end of Sept. :thumbs:

And, that's despite a massive increase in the number of tests being reported, up from around 600k at the peak to around 1.5m a day now, due to lateral flow tests being used so much.

Deaths reported yesterday were 101, down -36.8% in the last week, bringing the 7-day average down to 98 - a figure not seen since the first half of Oct. :thumbs:

Patients in hospital, reported 17th March, 6,544 down from the peak of 38,400, patients admitted in the 7-days to the 15th March - 3,535, down 23.2% in the week. :thumbs:

All time record for jabs yesterday at 660,276 (1st dose 528,260 + ,2nd dose 132,016), meaning over 2m have had their 2nd dose, and a total of 26,263,732 have received at least one dose, just short of 50% of all adults*, that magic figure should be easily hit over the weekend. :thumbs:

* UK estimated population 67,886,000 - 21.3% under 18s = 53,426,282.
 
SpookyFrank said:
If it works I'll take it.

If you've built a better one I'm sure we'd all love to see it.
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No, but get the right people on the job and this happened. Four day to create a device that got approval and saved lives, people didn't need to go onto ventilators.
www.cnet.com

Mercedes-AMG F1 team develops new CPAP for COVID-19 patients

The Formula One team worked with University College London to develop the machine, which is now ready for trial and could keep patients off ventilators.
www.cnet.com www.cnet.com
 
Sunray said:
No, but get the right people on the job and this happened. Four day to create a device that got approval and saved lives, people didn't need to go onto ventilators.
www.cnet.com

Mercedes-AMG F1 team develops new CPAP for COVID-19 patients

The Formula One team worked with University College London to develop the machine, which is now ready for trial and could keep patients off ventilators.
www.cnet.com www.cnet.com
Click to expand...

The right people? The machine you derided was built by a professor of medicine. Meanwhile Mercedes and their petrol-guzzling düschbaggenwagens contribute in no small degree to air pollution and resultant breathing problems, which disproportionately affect children.
 
SpookyFrank said:
The right people? The machine you derided was built by a professor of medicine. Meanwhile Mercedes and their petrol-guzzling düschbaggenwagens contribute in no small degree to air pollution and resultant breathing problems, which disproportionately affect children.
Click to expand...

People with real skills in manufacturing and production with the tools and machines to back it up. A professor of medicine doesn't have those skills. They open-sourced the design so anyone could make it.
They made a load of them immediately.

It saved lives as it has been used across the world, not just for people with COVID but the health care workers too.
 
NoXion said:
Give the choice between no breathing assistance when I need it to continue living, and that device, then hook me up please. What a really silly question that is.
Click to expand...

That device would kill you by popping your lungs.
Ventilators are not simple devices and you want to be hooked up to a real one. 80 years of development. I refer you to
Ventilator (esp the bit on it being life-critical)

This stems from another one of the current Governments many total fuck ups. They ordered 10000 ventilators from Dyson who make washing machines and hoovers and nothing to offer anyone.
The UK's manufacturers of approved ventilators, didn't get any orders? WTF! :facepalm:
 
Sunray said:
That device would kill you by popping your lungs.
Ventilators are not simple devices and you want to be hooked up to a real one. 80 years of development. I refer you to
Ventilator (esp the bit on it being life-critical)
Click to expand...

I assume that the doctors and engineers involved in its development know what they are doing, unlike someone whose experience of designing and building ventilation machines appears to come solely from reading Wikipedia articles.

This stems from another one of the current Governments many total fuck ups. They ordered 10000 ventilators from Dyson who make washing machines and hoovers and nothing to offer anyone.
The UK's manufacturers of approved ventilators, didn't get any orders? WTF! :facepalm:
Click to expand...

I agree that the UK government fucked up the procurement of ventilators, but that's no excuse to start slagging off an effort that has literally nothing to do with that. You do know that Vanderbilt University is in the US, right?
 
NoXion said:
I assume that the doctors and engineers involved in its development know what they are doing, unlike someone whose experience of designing and building ventilation machines appears to come solely from reading Wikipedia articles.



I agree that the UK government fucked up the procurement of ventilators, but that's no excuse to start slagging off an effort that has literally nothing to do with that. You do know that Vanderbilt University is in the US, right?
Click to expand...

I'm ok at designing and building things, enough to know that manufacturing thing like this, quickly, is very hard. This is why the Mercedes UCL collaboration amazes me. But Mercedes have a tool shop like no other. I would love the chance to use that setup. OMG. The precision CNC machines for making boxes in a flash.

1616367736497.png

People seemed to lose their mind over this. It was clearly dumb doing what they were doing. Why are they doing what they were doing? Ventilators are an eighty year old technology. Go to any manufacture and ask them to make you some and they will. The world can make a million of them pretty easily.

It seemed to get forgotten you can't come up with a million fully trained people to operate them at the same time.
 
I dont think the authorities forgot, they just didnt let the staffing realities get in the way of the propaganda of being seen to be doing something. Same as with making a big show of getting nightingales setup. Not the difference-maker they were made out to be, although they may have had some lesser utility, but more than zero, in certain scenarios.

I still believe that 'save the NHS, die at home' demand management was one of the ways they coped with the first wave. An overlooked subject that nonetheless did feature in one of the personal stories touched on by a Guardian article from earlier in March:

Olufemi Akinnola, an otherwise fit 60-year-old care worker from Leamington Spa, died with Covid-19 on his sofa last April. He had been told by the NHS 111 service that staying at home was his best bet. Now his son, Lobby Akinnola, 30, wants a public inquiry to examine, among other things, the quality of advice given to people like his dad.

“When the first wave came to an end, lots of people said how well we did and that the Nightingale hospitals were not even used,” Akinnola said. “That is difficult to hear because my dad died at home. It felt like he was being treated like it was quite a bad flu … Lack of caution and unfounded confidence was a theme of the pandemic response and has been very costly.”
Click to expand...

www.theguardian.com

'Somebody has to answer for this': voices from the frontline on why we need a Covid inquiry

Medics, care workers and grieving relatives outline their anger, heartbreak and the urgent questions they want answered
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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All the talk of overseas holidays is doing my head in. I get why (economic, jobs, and people just wanting a break) but it just clearly looks like a terrible idea currently.

Why the fuck don't the government make some more pro-active plans? They could say no overseas holidays but tie it into a 'help the UK economy and holiday here' thing or something. Could be a really good chance to talk about the amazing places we have here in the UK, advertise some of them, and get people to visit. Maybe add an extra bank holiday for people to see them, and do some summer scheme for kids that run alongside it, I dunno, like a free Go-Ape session or free ticket to something like that. If they were ambitious they could have sorted out a week long outward bound program for 13-16 year olds all summer or something. Just feels like there's zero imagination or impetus for things like that.
 
LynnDoyleCooper said:
All the talk of overseas holidays is doing my head in. I get why (economic, jobs, and people just wanting a break) but it just clearly looks like a terrible idea currently.

Why the fuck don't the government make some more pro-active plans? They could say no overseas holidays but tie it into a 'help the UK economy and holiday here' thing or something. Could be a really good chance to talk about the amazing places we have here in the UK, advertise some of them, and get people to visit. Maybe add an extra bank holiday for people to see them, and do some summer scheme for kids that run alongside it, I dunno, like a free Go-Ape session or free ticket to something like that. If they were ambitious they could have sorted out a week long outward bound program for 13-16 year olds all summer or something. Just feels like there's zero imagination or impetus for things like that.
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Have you tried booking a U.K. holiday recently? I don’t think they need the help. Stuff is filling up almost as soon as it becomes available.
 
kabbes said:
Have you tried booking a U.K. holiday recently? I don’t think they need the help. Stuff is filling up almost as soon as it becomes available.
Click to expand...

Tell me about it !

I'm having to book a couple of week long / different holiday lets, plus a hotel visit between them, in order for me, OH and a couple of my employees to work at a site about 300 miles from here ...
 
Regardless of your views the one thing that most people can agree on (cranks and selfish wankers aside) is that closing your borders early and saving your internal economy would have been the better choice. Obviously that was never considered a viable option but with the travel ban in place now it would be a bloody odd thing to just to say fuck it lets allow foreign holidays this summer.

I won't say it won't happen because of the erratic decision making thus far by the government but it really shouldn't.
 
I see Johnson has been chatting about the inevitablebility of the third wave hitting the UK. Nothing particularly unusual in that but he seems to be linking it to the situation on the continent.

There are going to be some interesting weeks and months ahead.
 
Blimey, new deaths reported today are 'just' 17. :thumbs:

I know Monday's figures are always low, as they are reporting on Sunday & subject to the weekend lag, but that's still down by 47 compared to last Monday's 64, bringing the 7-day average down to 84.

New cases 5,342, down 4.7% in the last week, despite a record breaking 1,893,830 tests being reported.
 
Teaboy said:
I see Johnson has been chatting about the inevitablebility of the third wave hitting the UK. Nothing particularly unusual in that but he seems to be linking it to the situation on the continent.

There are going to be some interesting weeks and months ahead.
Click to expand...

BBC 'analysis' by Iain Watson covers most of the bases that spring to mind:

The prospect of a third coronavirus wave won't engulf anyone with joy. So why did Boris Johnson highlight this danger today?

Privately and publicly ministers are making it clear that they don't want to delay the dates in England's roadmap out of lockdown.

There will be a vote in Parliament on coronavirus restrictions later this week.

So by stressing the risk that the virus still poses, the PM may be hoping to convince restless backbenchers that he can't go any quicker.
Click to expand...

He may also be trying to persuade vaccinated people with itchy feet that booking spring or summer holidays would still be premature.

He is preparing us, too, for the strong possibility that cases could rise in the coming weeks - not just because of "incoming" risks, but because rules here are being slowly relaxed.

But by stressing the shared threat from the coronavirus - i.e. the sooner the EU population is vaccinated, the less chance of importing a third wave - his comments could be also be clearing the way for more UK/EU vaccine co-operation, and the dousing down of an inflammatory row with Brussels.
Click to expand...

www.bbc.co.uk

Coronavirus: Third wave will 'wash up on our shores', warns Johnson

Boris Johnson says the UK will "feel effects" of growing case numbers in Europe amid a row over vaccines.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
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