brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Happened in Kent.
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
5pm today - Hancock Half hour, with special guests - NHS Test and Trace chief medical adviser Susan Hopkins, and NHS England’s medical director Stephen Powis.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Ah. OK. Well, speaking personally, I know that none of the surgeries in this corner of Wales have such facilities.
Boudicca
Seaside Queen
Yes, the GP surgery I mentioned up thread must have been using Pfizer as it was before the Oxford one was available. They have a chemists on site, so maybe they had somewhere to store it there? O rmaybe it came across from the hospital in batches.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
The latter, I think.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Today's daily figures -
37,535 new cases, down from last Monday 46,169.
599 new deaths, a low figure due to the weekend lag, but up 70 compared to last Monday 529, taking the 7-day average to 1,128 a day.
37,535 new cases, down from last Monday 46,169.
599 new deaths, a low figure due to the weekend lag, but up 70 compared to last Monday 529, taking the 7-day average to 1,128 a day.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Might be a bit of an understatement. In the context of Europe we are more than twice as far as the next closest, and more than 5 times as far as the EU average.
It'll be interesting to see how it pans out in the end for sure. In the interests of quoting you in a few months time, which countries do you predict will show better results due to having "more equal societies and a stronger sense of community"?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Yes, definitely. On nicer days at the weekend, there are still a number of people but probably 10% of what I’d otherwise expect. On drizzly week days, there’s virtually nobody.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I didn't listen to much of it, but to my eye it has shades of hydroxychloroquine etc ...
Yes, well done. Aren't you a clever boy.
You know that this is not how legislation or guidance is read, don't you? Have you ever sat in a High Court or Court of Appeal action and listened to how judges actually interpret this stuff for real? They don't take kindly to peoples' attempts to logic-chop their way out of the intent and spirit of either legislation or guidance.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I'm staying in my hundred, which allows me to exercise locally but in places where the number of pedestrians I encounter is considerbly less than if I was to restrict myself to my parish.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
2hats
Dust.
It will be interesting to see how that plays out beyond 4 weeks (hence).
Cloo
Banana for scale
I've been reflecting on how we've come to this horrible pass because, for all their wittering on about 'sacrifice' & 'blitz spirit', the UK government just didn't believe we could or would make any sacrifices for one another. They underestimated us.
They didn't go into lockdown quickly because they didn't think we'd bear it, that we'd just want our bread and circuses. They didn't mandate masks because they thought we wouldn't want to go to even the slightest trouble on behalf of other people, and so on. So we're going to end up having to bear it for longer than much of the rest of the world because they assumed we were as selfish and self serving as, well, they are.
They didn't go into lockdown quickly because they didn't think we'd bear it, that we'd just want our bread and circuses. They didn't mandate masks because they thought we wouldn't want to go to even the slightest trouble on behalf of other people, and so on. So we're going to end up having to bear it for longer than much of the rest of the world because they assumed we were as selfish and self serving as, well, they are.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the government have killed more people than died in air raids and v1 and v2 attacks from 1940 to 1945. so let us hear less about blitz spirit from them.
ice-is-forming
I was born naked, shameless & fucking outrageous..
Oh absolutely! I made these posts on the world wide thread a while ago now. I think the uk government have completely underestimated their population.
The Australian government is as inept, corrupt and right wing as the uk government. But even so there's a subtle cultural contrast that's made for a different lockdown narrative
Obviously there's huge differences in covid transmission due to the space and weather we have here, but still, when and where a hard lockdown's necessary our experience of essential services, lockdown rules, and the consequences for breaking them has been much tighter than the UK
I'm wondering if this is because the government have more confidence in applying stricter rules, because they know and trust from our regular large disasters, that the population have the resilience and necessary solidarity to follow them
What are the differences that gives a government the ability and confidence to actually make harder rules, so that the outcomes aren't purely based on geography or timing. Perhaps some of the confidence comes from knowing that they have the geography to enforce them
Perhaps it's also something to do with the population always being drilled to be disaster ready. It's a way of life
Geography doesn't explain the differences in things like what is considered an essential service, or maybe it does as in regional and remote areas services are already reduced . I also think that the Aus gov had increased confidence to close more services / businesses because they have the experience of seeing a large amount of people managing without during times of disasters, and more importantly perhaps not blaming the government because of the overall acceptance of environmental/natural disasters. There is a demonstrated compliance and consideration for others by the population
Really I'm just wondering about why Boris Johnson ditthers so much I suppose
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Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
On the first point, we might be several orders of magnitude better than other European countries, but are only at 6/100. We have clearly had a better/quicker start than some, which will probably achieve a significant advantage as the programme rolls out. I'm just making the point that at the moment we are comparing very small numbers.
'In terms of quoting me'... I'm not talking about something that will necessarily be visible in overall figures. But some societies will be better than others at getting the vaccine to everyone - societies where not as many have dived off electoral registers, where everyone has a doctor, where there are strong community health programmes etc.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
They thought we all think like them.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I dont think its that simple, I think that was largely a crap excuse for inaction. They were bowing down to perceived political and economic self-interest.
Others enabled this with various justifications. Ask Whitty for a start, since he was still making reference to the dangers of acting too soon in the middle of December!
Others enabled this with various justifications. Ask Whitty for a start, since he was still making reference to the dangers of acting too soon in the middle of December!
elbows
Well-Known Member
Plus the approach and timing they have gone for actually requires a greater and longer burden on the public.
Late lockdowns have to be longer and stronger, although I hesitate to emphasise the stronger bit too much since a nice early preventative lockdown also needs to be strong in order for such an approach to really keep a lid on things.
By doing things late every time and entirely avoiding opportunities to do all sorts of sensible things earlier, the government actually has to place more faith in the public adhering to restrictions when those restrictions are finally imposed. Otherwise the healthcare system would be overwhelmed to an even more significant degree than we've seen in either wave so far. And that has very serious political and economic implications, which is why even this shit government does eventually impose pretty serious stuff, even they cannot afford to let things go out of control beyond a certain level, and they require the public to play their part in slamming the brakes on at those times.
What they have deliberately avoided testing is a different sort of public response. eg how the public would have responded if the government had listened to the advice about imposing some restictions in other areas before schools reopened, to compensate. Or if they had stuck to the scenario that was apparently baked into the reasonable worst case winter planning, where it was assumed that measures would be taken in September in response to a rise in infections. They never gave us the chance to demonstrate that we were ready to do the right thing at the right time. They preferred to wait until a long time past the point where people realised action was needed, and to have the public demanding they act rather than the other way around.
Late lockdowns have to be longer and stronger, although I hesitate to emphasise the stronger bit too much since a nice early preventative lockdown also needs to be strong in order for such an approach to really keep a lid on things.
By doing things late every time and entirely avoiding opportunities to do all sorts of sensible things earlier, the government actually has to place more faith in the public adhering to restrictions when those restrictions are finally imposed. Otherwise the healthcare system would be overwhelmed to an even more significant degree than we've seen in either wave so far. And that has very serious political and economic implications, which is why even this shit government does eventually impose pretty serious stuff, even they cannot afford to let things go out of control beyond a certain level, and they require the public to play their part in slamming the brakes on at those times.
What they have deliberately avoided testing is a different sort of public response. eg how the public would have responded if the government had listened to the advice about imposing some restictions in other areas before schools reopened, to compensate. Or if they had stuck to the scenario that was apparently baked into the reasonable worst case winter planning, where it was assumed that measures would be taken in September in response to a rise in infections. They never gave us the chance to demonstrate that we were ready to do the right thing at the right time. They preferred to wait until a long time past the point where people realised action was needed, and to have the public demanding they act rather than the other way around.
Concerning proper ultra-cold storage for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, briefly discussed a bit earlier :
What wuld be very useful IMO, would be to know to what extent those surgeries who are unable to freeze the Pfizer/BioNT vaccine as required, are being supplied with the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine instead?
Latter vaccine was scarcely mentioned at all in today's BBC Wales story about Wales' (currently) under-par vaccination pace.
But this WAS mentioned :
brogdale said:
What wuld be very useful IMO, would be to know to what extent those surgeries who are unable to freeze the Pfizer/BioNT vaccine as required, are being supplied with the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine instead?
Latter vaccine was scarcely mentioned at all in today's BBC Wales story about Wales' (currently) under-par vaccination pace.
But this WAS mentioned :
BBC Wales said:
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
That bbc wales quote is slightly inaccurate.
The bulk supplies in transit can keep for up to 30 days if the dry ice coolant is replaced, which needs doing at least every five days.
Technically, that's for an "unopened" transit case of bulk vaccines.
[this has been illustrated several times times in the "cold chain" graphic on the BBC News website.]
But, personally, I don't see any reason why one tray can't come out of the transit case , & more dry ice added ...
The bulk supplies in transit can keep for up to 30 days if the dry ice coolant is replaced, which needs doing at least every five days.
Technically, that's for an "unopened" transit case of bulk vaccines.
[this has been illustrated several times times in the "cold chain" graphic on the BBC News website.]
But, personally, I don't see any reason why one tray can't come out of the transit case , & more dry ice added ...
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
from previous infoConcerning proper ultra-cold storage for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, briefly discussed a bit earlier :
What wuld be very useful IMO, would be to know to what extent those surgeries who are unable to freeze the Pfizer/BioNT vaccine as required, are being supplied with the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine instead?
Latter vaccine was scarcely mentioned at all in today's BBC Wales story about Wales' (currently) under-par vaccination pace.
But this WAS mentioned :
975/5=199
vaccinations needing to be administered per day within the time window after leaving the deep cold storage
there was also something about the amount of times it could be moved (5 IIRC) from manufacture
all way back when it first got approved and tinted via my less than stellar memory
Interesting detail, the logistical issues to do with storing the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine have been written about in a good few places.
But personally, I'm much more interested in how/whether more supplies of Oxford/Astra/Zeneca are getting distruibuted to places where they can't store the Pfizer/BioNTech one.
Not just in Wales, but everywhere where -70C storage is lacking! ???
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
according to this article it is being manufactured in north wales (wrexham), no idea on how the logistics work though.
Yes, that Wrexham factory (CP Pharmaceuticals/Wockhardt) is for the vital "fill and finish" part of the process, that article reminds me.
It did make me wonder at one point whether Wales would get slightly preferential distribution of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, but there's no logic to that thought at all
, and I've heard nothing to that effect anyway .....Similar threads
