Collective punishment
- Thread starter moono
- Start date
Moono: Instead of laying Camp David to rest, let us lay cheap propaganda without substance to rest. Explain just why 997% of the "West Bank", 3% of Israel Proper [to offset the 3% loss of "West Bank" land] 100% of Gaza, and 100% of E. Jerusalem would not translate into a contigious and viable state? It is better than any Partition EVER offered to them, including their own formulations. Explain why it was less than satisfactory.
"Yasser's voice from the dead calling to Rachamim..." Yes indeed! Yasser nefver wanted statehood! Like most Arab "Leaders" he wanted to pimp the "Palestinians." Beg to differ? Surely you know his beautiful young beard, Imean wife, is being indicted ion fraud for absconding with close to 3 billion of her peoples/ cash.
"Zionist expansionism." You just do not get it! Gave back Sinai. Gave back Gaza. Giving back so called "West Bank." Seems like a lot of colonialism to me [sic].
"Zionism was founded on brutal compulsion." Ohhhhh...Is that what you call buying inferior land at exorbirant prices? Got it. Thanks for that tip.
TAE: I would support the shelling of the local Tesco store IF the firing party had made fair attempts at sinpsiring the local authorities to do their part. IF they did not, and rockets were being launched from Tesco killing innocents from my nation, I would be glad to push the key sequence.
It is natural for one entity to place a higher priority on members of said enetity, than to others. If killing 10 innocent shoopers in that store [along with militants] would save 50 odd people from my nation ? Of course I have no qualms at all killing those shoppers.
"Yasser's voice from the dead calling to Rachamim..." Yes indeed! Yasser nefver wanted statehood! Like most Arab "Leaders" he wanted to pimp the "Palestinians." Beg to differ? Surely you know his beautiful young beard, Imean wife, is being indicted ion fraud for absconding with close to 3 billion of her peoples/ cash.
"Zionist expansionism." You just do not get it! Gave back Sinai. Gave back Gaza. Giving back so called "West Bank." Seems like a lot of colonialism to me [sic].
"Zionism was founded on brutal compulsion." Ohhhhh...Is that what you call buying inferior land at exorbirant prices? Got it. Thanks for that tip.
TAE: I would support the shelling of the local Tesco store IF the firing party had made fair attempts at sinpsiring the local authorities to do their part. IF they did not, and rockets were being launched from Tesco killing innocents from my nation, I would be glad to push the key sequence.
It is natural for one entity to place a higher priority on members of said enetity, than to others. If killing 10 innocent shoopers in that store [along with militants] would save 50 odd people from my nation ? Of course I have no qualms at all killing those shoppers.
TAE said:
I would be happy to pass the info to the army - Tesco's sausages are shit
moono said:BFF;
I think you're getting it.
Further, the Zionists will continue to erode any meaningful moves, towards negotiations and peace, by inflaming the Palestinians with acts of humiliation and violence which are impossible to ignore.
The israelis are so pleased that the terorists are stupid.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
"The Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz gave a small snapshot of what this looks like for Gazans. Last Thursday morning, Illan as-Siam was sitting at home with his wife and three children when an Israeli tank smashed into their garden. Armed soldiers out and, aiming guns at the children, they announced they were turning the house into a temporary military base. They were forbidden from even going to the toilet. When they cracked and let the crying 11 year old go, he was accompanied at gunpoint.
What are they being punished for, these 1.4 million people? What has happened that makes Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, say, "I want no one to sleep at night in Gaza. I want them to know what it feels like"? The vast majority, of course, have done nothing. More than half the population of Gaza are children. Among the adults, 67 percent want a two-state solution with Israel and an end to attacks on Israeli civilians.
But “they” – everyone, innocent or guilty – are being ostensibly punished for three reasons. The first is that an Israeli soldier has been kidnapped. He is the only Israeli being detained by the Palestinians. By contrast, the Israelis are currently holding 8200 Palestinian fighters, 800 of them Guanatnomo-style, without charge and indefinitely. Some of these people were involved in attacks upon the Israeli civilian population and deserve to be severely punished – but the vast majority were simply resisting violent occupying troops within Gaza and the West Bank.
The second public reason is that, against the will of the majority, a tiny number of Palestinians are firing Qassam rockets at Israel from Gaza. Thirteen Israeli civilians have ever died in this way – in contrast to the 238 Palestinians killed from the air since the Israeli ‘disengagement’ from Gaza. If the Israelis are entitled to bomb in response, what are the Palestinians entitled to do? The current firing of rockets only began after Israeli forces broke their promise to provide Gazans with a safe passage to the West Bank, declared economic war on their elected leadership, and struck at the Islamic University in Gaza.
The final public reason is that the Palestinians chose – in free, open elections – to elect Hamas. I dislike Hamas intensely. It is an organization that loathes women’s rights, believes in the execution of homosexuals, and defends the deliberate targeting of Jewish children. But the Palestinian people did not give them a mandate on that basis. They gave Hamas a mandate to eradicate the fetid corruption of Fatah, and they made it clear that they expect Hamas to pursue any real path to peace that came along.
That’s why last month, when the Fatah President Mahmoud Abbas threatened to use his remaining powers to hold a referendum on accepting Israel’s existence over the heads of Hamas, the Islamist organisation quickly backed down. They made clear signals that they would accept peace with Israel after all.
But here we come to the real reason for the assault the world - including, very publicly, Kofi Anan - is watching in disbelief. Most people would expect any Israeli government to celebrate the news that even the radical wing of the Palestinians were poised to accept Israel’s existence. But once Hamas makes this commitment, there is no longer any excuse to refuse serious peace negotiations – and that was never part of the Sharon-Kadima plan, inherited and followed to the letter by Olmert.
We need to look at the origins of the Kadima approach to understand what is happening in Gaza. Ariel Sharon did not have a Damscene conversion to the cause of Palestinian self-determination in his seventies, after a lifetime of trying to crush it. He simply realised that unless the borders of Israel were quickly redrawn, the higher Arab birth-rate was going to soon produce an Arab majority living between the River and the Sea under Israeli rule. This would leave Israel with a choice: either become an Apartheid state and lose even American support, or be voted out of existence. Sharon chose to steer away from this by redrawing the country’s boundaries unilaterally to ensure a Jewish majority, on his own terms and in his own way. This would allow him to seize the choicest morsels of the West Bank – including the major settlements and the all-important water supplies – and leave the Palestinians with barren scraps like Gaza.
The only thing that could obstruct this plan is the arrival of a Palestinian “partner for peace”, somebody the world could demand Israel negotiate with. Inevitably, any negotiations would require Olmert to give up some of the areas he is currently planning to seize. Sharon had already snubbed Mahmoud Abbas when he offered just this back in 2002, concocting an excuse about him not disarming the militias quickly enough. (If Abbas had done what Sharon demanded, he would be dead now). Over the past three weeks, confronted with the possibility that even Hamas would negotiate, Olmert has continued Sharon’s strategy. He has tried to choke off any possible partner by invading Gaza and attempting to stoke yet further Palestinian radicalisation.
The last three weeks have not been primarily about an Israeli soldier, a slew of rockets, or Hamas. They are about the determination of the Israeli government to unilaterally seize chunks of the West Bank, and to refuse to negotiate, any time, any place, anywhere. "
Excerpt from the excellent article by: http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=922
What are they being punished for, these 1.4 million people? What has happened that makes Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, say, "I want no one to sleep at night in Gaza. I want them to know what it feels like"? The vast majority, of course, have done nothing. More than half the population of Gaza are children. Among the adults, 67 percent want a two-state solution with Israel and an end to attacks on Israeli civilians.
But “they” – everyone, innocent or guilty – are being ostensibly punished for three reasons. The first is that an Israeli soldier has been kidnapped. He is the only Israeli being detained by the Palestinians. By contrast, the Israelis are currently holding 8200 Palestinian fighters, 800 of them Guanatnomo-style, without charge and indefinitely. Some of these people were involved in attacks upon the Israeli civilian population and deserve to be severely punished – but the vast majority were simply resisting violent occupying troops within Gaza and the West Bank.
The second public reason is that, against the will of the majority, a tiny number of Palestinians are firing Qassam rockets at Israel from Gaza. Thirteen Israeli civilians have ever died in this way – in contrast to the 238 Palestinians killed from the air since the Israeli ‘disengagement’ from Gaza. If the Israelis are entitled to bomb in response, what are the Palestinians entitled to do? The current firing of rockets only began after Israeli forces broke their promise to provide Gazans with a safe passage to the West Bank, declared economic war on their elected leadership, and struck at the Islamic University in Gaza.
The final public reason is that the Palestinians chose – in free, open elections – to elect Hamas. I dislike Hamas intensely. It is an organization that loathes women’s rights, believes in the execution of homosexuals, and defends the deliberate targeting of Jewish children. But the Palestinian people did not give them a mandate on that basis. They gave Hamas a mandate to eradicate the fetid corruption of Fatah, and they made it clear that they expect Hamas to pursue any real path to peace that came along.
That’s why last month, when the Fatah President Mahmoud Abbas threatened to use his remaining powers to hold a referendum on accepting Israel’s existence over the heads of Hamas, the Islamist organisation quickly backed down. They made clear signals that they would accept peace with Israel after all.
But here we come to the real reason for the assault the world - including, very publicly, Kofi Anan - is watching in disbelief. Most people would expect any Israeli government to celebrate the news that even the radical wing of the Palestinians were poised to accept Israel’s existence. But once Hamas makes this commitment, there is no longer any excuse to refuse serious peace negotiations – and that was never part of the Sharon-Kadima plan, inherited and followed to the letter by Olmert.
We need to look at the origins of the Kadima approach to understand what is happening in Gaza. Ariel Sharon did not have a Damscene conversion to the cause of Palestinian self-determination in his seventies, after a lifetime of trying to crush it. He simply realised that unless the borders of Israel were quickly redrawn, the higher Arab birth-rate was going to soon produce an Arab majority living between the River and the Sea under Israeli rule. This would leave Israel with a choice: either become an Apartheid state and lose even American support, or be voted out of existence. Sharon chose to steer away from this by redrawing the country’s boundaries unilaterally to ensure a Jewish majority, on his own terms and in his own way. This would allow him to seize the choicest morsels of the West Bank – including the major settlements and the all-important water supplies – and leave the Palestinians with barren scraps like Gaza.
The only thing that could obstruct this plan is the arrival of a Palestinian “partner for peace”, somebody the world could demand Israel negotiate with. Inevitably, any negotiations would require Olmert to give up some of the areas he is currently planning to seize. Sharon had already snubbed Mahmoud Abbas when he offered just this back in 2002, concocting an excuse about him not disarming the militias quickly enough. (If Abbas had done what Sharon demanded, he would be dead now). Over the past three weeks, confronted with the possibility that even Hamas would negotiate, Olmert has continued Sharon’s strategy. He has tried to choke off any possible partner by invading Gaza and attempting to stoke yet further Palestinian radicalisation.
The last three weeks have not been primarily about an Israeli soldier, a slew of rockets, or Hamas. They are about the determination of the Israeli government to unilaterally seize chunks of the West Bank, and to refuse to negotiate, any time, any place, anywhere. "
Excerpt from the excellent article by: http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=922
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14021.htm
Video report from Robert Fisk about the on-going 'collective punishment' in Lebanon. The cynicism and ghastly efficiency of the Israeli government strikes me as massive - dropping leaflets on a village saying that the inhabitants shoiuld leave as it's going to be bombed, and then bombing the whole convoy of vehicles as it leaves. I guess it's more efficient for them - if they just bombed the village, some civilians might survive - this way they have them trapped in their cars and can wipe out the whole population at one go. Even easier than shooting fish in a barrel, I guess.
Israeli officials have even been using this leaflet dropping before bombing as an example of their desire for the safety of civiliians in the international media, and very few people in the media have even questioned if there is a more sinister motive behind this policy. Wiping out whole civilian communities is ethnic cleansing pure and simple - didn't the nazis employ the same tactics? But I guess the Geneva convention does not apply to Israel any more than it applies to the US.
Video report from Robert Fisk about the on-going 'collective punishment' in Lebanon. The cynicism and ghastly efficiency of the Israeli government strikes me as massive - dropping leaflets on a village saying that the inhabitants shoiuld leave as it's going to be bombed, and then bombing the whole convoy of vehicles as it leaves. I guess it's more efficient for them - if they just bombed the village, some civilians might survive - this way they have them trapped in their cars and can wipe out the whole population at one go. Even easier than shooting fish in a barrel, I guess.
Israeli officials have even been using this leaflet dropping before bombing as an example of their desire for the safety of civiliians in the international media, and very few people in the media have even questioned if there is a more sinister motive behind this policy. Wiping out whole civilian communities is ethnic cleansing pure and simple - didn't the nazis employ the same tactics? But I guess the Geneva convention does not apply to Israel any more than it applies to the US.
An update from Robert Fisk about the collective punishment in Lebanon
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14059.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14059.htm
Similar threads
