Brunei brings in death by stoning as punishment for gay sex

[Sasaferrato]

Which one?

Tut tut.

 

[Pickman's model]

The Church of Scotland has both female and openly gay ministers, and has had for a while.

There is still a bit of conflict between the old and the new view, but a minister may be in a same sex marriage, and be called by a congregation.

The C of E is still discussing things. the Anglican Congregation is severely split on the matter.

I am not saying that any branch of Christianity is perfect, only God is perfect. Travel in the right direction is good though.

What makes you think you're going in the right direction?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Tut tut.

Is that an old Egyptian god?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Tut tut.

Thor? Odin? Zeus? So many to choose from.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This idea of a 'perfect god' is a weird one, tbh. Odd that a person can look at the world and think that its creator must be perfect.

 

[Pickman's model]

This idea of a 'perfect god' is a weird one, tbh. Odd that a person can look at the world and think that its creator must be perfect.

Don't think many religions have a perfect god, certainly the Egyptian, roman, Greek, norse religions were filled with gods who were clearly not perfect. Only xianity and similar monotheisms I think

 

[Chilli.s]

seems to me that it is easy to divide Christianlty into lots of sub-sections and to pick and choose. Islam however is all the same, everywhere.

er...no.

Can't we just agree that both Islam and Christianity are bollocks, and their leaders are cunts?

er...yes.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

This idea of a 'perfect god' is a weird one, tbh. Odd that a person can look at the world and think that its creator must be perfect.

Quite. If this shitshow is an almighty creators best work then colour me unimpressed.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Quite. If this shitshow is an almighty creators best work then colour me unimpressed.

Not that I think this is an argument against the idea of 'god' particularly. There are good arguments against the idea of a knowable god, but this isn't one of them. No reason to suppose if the thing did have meaning that said god wouldn't be a cunt.

That said, if you're going to believe in a knowable god, you may as well believe in a perfect one, given the qualities of your god are entirely arbitrary. Everything is imperfect except 'god'. I guess it is an expression of hope as much as anything.

 

[Pickman's model]

Quite. If this shitshow is an almighty creators best work then colour me unimpressed.

To be fair we're seeing it billions of years after it was made so some wear and tear is inevitable

 

[RainbowTown]

It may not achieve anything but if you do have a few seconds please try and sign the following petition that's just been set up:

www.change.org/p/condemn-persecution-of-lgbt-people-in-brunei


As to the warped individual, The Sultan of Brunei, who has implemented this vile, medieval, bestial law (amongst others that are being introduced as well under Sharia), I have only one thought; you can stone gay people to death, you can murder them for simply loving and wanting another human being - but you will never eradicate them. They will still be here, like they always have been and always will be. Nothing will ever change that. Nothing.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm obviously talking about the people in power who are bringing in this backward neanderthal law.

We have no evidence that neanderthals would ever have crawled so low.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I am not saying that any branch of Christianity is perfect, only God is perfect. Travel in the right direction is good though.

My idea of 'perfect' does not include providing the world with a holy text that countenances capital punishment for gay sex. That's not the behaviour of a perfect person, it's the behaviour of a cunt.

 

[weltweit]

Seems pretty backward to me. And brutal, unjust, cruel, unfair, and simply outrageous!

 

[likesfish]

Sharia law originally as meant to be more Humane and merciful i.e adultery could only be found guilty if 4 people witnessed the act and most of the vile punishments are difficult to enforce and are usually followed by suggestions of mercy are a much better idea.

unfortunately the Saudi Wahhabist the batshit version of Islam has more money than anyone to push its odious views.

if religious fundies got fanatical about mercy and forgiveness it would be much harder to be an atheist.

 

[8ball]

Quite. If this shitshow is an almighty creators best work then colour me unimpressed.

Moan moan moan with some people. Bloody stressful gig, being God. Was in it for 40 years, man and boy, and look at the fucking state of me.

 

[Wookey]

It may not achieve anything but if you do have a few seconds please try and sign the following petition that's just been set up:

www.change.org/p/condemn-persecution-of-lgbt-people-in-brunei


As to the warped individual, The Sultan of Brunei, who has implemented this vile, medieval, bestial law (amongst others that are being introduced as well under Sharia), I have only one thought; you can stone gay people to death, you can murder them for simply loving and wanting another human being - but you will never eradicate them. They will still be here, like they always have been and always will be. Nothing will ever change that. Nothing.

Signed and shared.

 

[dylanredefined]

don't the army do jungle warfare training there?

Yeah the SAS do the jungle phase out there and also support the local forces. There are a couple of helicopters out there. My chance of dodging a British winter there went as someone from my squadron called the officer in charge a knob. So we are banned

 

[Ming]

Is that an old Egyptian god?

A damn funky one.

 

[mojo pixy]

That too. Why does sex have to be controlled, I wonder?

Not much controlling reproduction in the case of LGBT people, mind.

I think you answered yourself. Can't control reproduction as do not reproduce, so must be eradicated.

 

[NoXion]

The core social function, regardless of any messages, of organised religions like Islam or Christianity is to regulate and control sex and reproduction.

Utter tosh. The core social function of religion, as machiavelli pointed out, is to justify the state and its power

These two functions are not mutually exclusive. There's no reason they couldn't both be true.

 

[Pickman's model]

These two functions are not mutually exclusive. There's no reason they couldn't both be true.

oh i quite agree that both can be functions. but i don't agree that both can be 'the core social function', to use littlebabyjesus's phrase, by which i understand him to mean the primary purpose.

but who brings the muscle to controlling sex, sexuality, reproduction? it's the state, which can say 'this marriage is legitimate. so to my mind 'the core social function' of religion, above regulating sex and reproduction, is justifying the state from which so much else flows.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think you answered yourself. Can't control reproduction as do not reproduce, so must be eradicated.

maybe not in the case of the l's, the g's or the t's, but i submit many of the b's will reproduce.

 

[NoXion]

oh i quite agree that both can be functions. but i don't agree that both can be 'the core social function', to use littlebabyjesus's phrase, by which i understand him to mean the primary purpose.

I think religion is an old and complex enough set of social phenomena, such that multiple core functions cannot be ruled out. For example, the Imperial Cult of ancient Rome probably had much more emphasis on justifying state power than it did regulating sexuality. Whereas many leaders of tiny but fanatical cults have no state power at all, but regulate their followers' sexuality very closely.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think religion is an old and complex enough set of social phenomena, such that multiple core functions cannot be ruled out. For example, the Imperial Cult of ancient Rome probably had much more emphasis on justifying state power than it did regulating sexuality. Whereas many leaders of tiny but fanatical cults have no state power at all, but regulate their followers' sexuality very closely.

i understood us to be talking about religions like christianity and islam on the large scale

 

[editor]

OK I don't dislike him as much now

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeh I can get on board with a boycott of those hotels

 

[yellow dog]

Islam vs Gays.
seems to be a theme these days, in some way.
the Birmingham parents vs RSE Moffat thing is still going on, altho i guess there's a thread on that already.
but the issue is the same, a religious belief vs progressive opinion.

its hard to boycott hotels that i would never afford to stay at.

was homosexuality 'legal' in Brunei before this law was passed?

 

[Pickman's model]

Islam vs Gays.
seems to be a theme these days, in some way.
the Birmingham parents vs RSE Moffat thing is still going on, altho i guess there's a thread on that already.
but the issue is the same, a religious belief vs progressive opinion.

its hard to boycott hotels that i would never afford to stay at.

was homosexuality 'legal' in Brunei before this law was passed?

It's very easy to boycott hotels I could never afford to stay at

 

[yellow dog]

It's very easy to boycott hotels I could never afford to stay at

exactly.