British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Yossarian]

Look like Britain might be taking its lead from the Trump administration, which removed this woman's citizenship on very shaky grounds:

Ms. Muthana is one of at least 13 people identified as Americans — almost all of them women and children — who are being held in detention camps by Kurdish forces in northeastern Syria. Many of them are facing similar issues as Ms. Muthana does, with their citizenship being challenged on technical grounds. In contrast, a majority of American men caught on the battlefield were the subject of sealed indictments and have been repatriated to face charges.

Alabama Woman Who Joined ISIS Can’t Return Home, Pompeo Says

 

[RubyBlue]

I think there are elements of this that can never make sense. We watch her and how can a 19 year old be saying those things, have done what she has, believe what she did/does?

I think this is just it ~ I can’t quite understand or comprehend it. I’ve changed my tune though ~ she should come back to the UK if possible but with no effort on our part ~ even then I would feel shit if she died en route.

Any fool would know that Holland would never admit her ~ unfortunately she is a problem for the UK.

Sky news and ITV will be gagging to get her reaction to hearing that Bangladesh and Holland have both said no.

 

[Red Cat]

I think there are elements of this that can never make sense. We watch her and how can a 19 year old be saying those things, have done what she has, believe what she did/does?

She expresses herself in a very odd way, not just flat, but saying things like my 'old' son talking about her son who died and 'it was a shock' seems the extent of her emotional vocabulary. I must admit to being surprised by these...limitations.

 

[The39thStep]

Wanted : ISIS supporter who joins ISIS state who is media savvy .

 

[Red Cat]

That's not what I meant.

I was talking about her mental state.

 

[Athos]

That's not what I meant.

I was talking about her mental state.

Probably not that many people in a sound mental state who sign up for an organisation whose MO is mass rape, torture, and murder, to be honest.

 

[The39thStep]

The mental state of someone living in a caliphate dream who realises the game is up or the mental state of someone who thought the ISIS brand was better than any other brand of Islam or the mental state of an ISIS supporter who thinks the bombing in Manchester ( and logically any other act of Jihaadism ) is ok ? Or the mental state of someone who leaves their pay rents and joins the IsIS state?
What about the mental state of their victims ?

 

[Ax^]

so at least this shit story has given katie hopkins career a resurgence

 

[RD2003]

The term might be a bit overused in these days when pop-psychology is unfortunately all the rage, but this young woman is quite clearly a narcissist. All her problems stem from this fact.

 

[Athos]

Clearly, she doesn't appreciate the wrongness of what she's done. Whilst some might argue that lessens her culpability, it must increase the risk of repeating such folly.

 

[Red Cat]

The mental state of someone living in a caliphate dream who realises the game is up or the mental state of someone who thought the ISIS brand was better than any other brand of Islam or the mental state of an ISIS supporter who thinks the bombing in Manchester ( and logically any other act of Jihaadism ) is ok ? Or the mental state of someone who leaves their pay rents and joins the IsIS state?
What about the mental state of their victims ?

I was posting in response to posts about her naivety. She seems extremely cut off in a really odd way, it's quite striking to me.

What about the mental state of her victims? Do you think I'm making excuses?

 

[RD2003]

so at least this shit story has given katie hopkins career a resurgence

Hopkins is also an obvious narcissist.

 

[Ax^]

i know but itv rolling commentary for this shit

dear god

 

[xenon]

As an aside, there was a great blog a few years ago called the Last Damn Psychiatrist. Mainly consisted of this American psych's rants about how everyone was a narcissist.

 

[RD2003]

As an aside, there was a great blog a few years ago called the Last Damn Psychiatrist. Mainly consisted of this American psych's rants about how everyone was a narcissist.

That's what I meant about it being an overused term. But I think it does apply in this case.

 

[The39thStep]

I was posting in response to posts about her naivety. She seems extremely cut off in a really odd way, it's quite striking to me.

What about the mental state of her victims? Do you think I'm making excuses?

No mate wasn't saying that . It was a wider question to the thread .

 

[Red Cat]

That's what I meant about it being an overused term. But I think it does apply in this case.

How do you think it adds to our understanding?

 

[Red Cat]

Probably not that many people in a sound mental state who sign up for an organisation whose MO is mass rape, torture, and murder, to be honest.

But I was describing something quite specific about her state not making a comment on whether she was of sound mental state or not. But thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Pickman's model]

She expresses herself in a very odd way, not just flat, but saying things like my 'old' son talking about her son who died and 'it was a shock' seems the extent of her emotional vocabulary. I must admit to being surprised by these...limitations.

Yeh cos if only she'd been proper British and stayed in school she might have both a broader vocabulary and be better able to express herself in a more nuanced way

 

[Red Cat]

Yeh cos if only she'd been proper British and stayed in school she might have both a broader vocabulary and be better able to express herself in a more nuanced way

Really? You make yourself look like a prick saying that to me. I'm pretty sure nobody else reading my post read that into it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was posting in response to posts about her naivety. She seems extremely cut off in a really odd way, it's quite striking to me.

What about the mental state of her victims? Do you think I'm making excuses?

Soz who are her victims?

 

[Red Cat]

Soz who are her victims?

It was a response to another post. Try reading again.

 

[Athos]

But I was describing something quite specific about her state not making a comment on whether she was of sound mental state or not. But thanks for pointing that out.

I get that. And you're right, I think - there's something very odd about the way she comes across.

 

[maomao]

I get that. And you're right, I think - there's something very odd about the way she comes across.

Regardless of what she's done she's just lost her friends, two children, been bombed out of her home and put in a refugee camp. It would be weird if she didn't have some sort of ptsd surely?

 

[weepiper]

She expresses herself in a very odd way, not just flat, but saying things like my 'old' son talking about her son who died and 'it was a shock' seems the extent of her emotional vocabulary. I must admit to being surprised by these...limitations.

She comes over as disassociating.

 

[Red Cat]

She comes over as disassociating.

Yes, that's a possibility. It may also point to preexisting vulnerability.

 

[Pickman's model]

Really? You make yourself look like a prick saying that to me. I'm pretty sure nobody else reading my post read that into it.

Saying that to you? Of course it would be different if I'd said it to someone else... the way it read *to me* you find it peculiar how she expresses herself without giving any genuine thought as to why that might be. For example, you don't seem to wonder whether English is her first language. I don't really find anything really strange about her talking about her old son, whereas what I get from you is you'd rather she said 'my dead son'. You would rather she had a wider vocabulary but she missed at least three years of education. I wonder how you'd express yourself in similar circumstances, quite possibly with only a few words just as she has. And that's before considering trauma etc. But yeh I'm a prick. I must say I'm surprised by the er limitations of your insults.

 

[Pickman's model]

It was a response to another post. Try reading again.

Yes, the post you responded to talked of their victims, ie daesh's victims. You talked of her victims, ie begum's victims. Who are her victims?

 

[Red Cat]

Saying that to you? Of course it would be different if I'd said it to someone else... the way it read *to me* you find it peculiar how she expresses herself without giving any genuine thought as to why that might be. For example, you don't seem to wonder whether English is her first language. I don't really find anything really strange about her talking about her old son, whereas what I get from you is you'd rather she said 'my dead son'. You would rather she had a wider vocabulary but she missed at least three years of education. I wonder how you'd express yourself in similar circumstances, quite possibly with only a few words just as she has. And that's before considering trauma etc. But yeh I'm a prick. I must say I'm surprised by the er limitations of your insults.

I usually try to read people's posts in the context of what I know of them. I hope that most people do the same for me. The idea that I wouldn't have given any genuine thought to how she may be how she is is absurd. But knock yourself out.

 

[Edie]

She expresses herself in a very odd way, not just flat, but saying things like my 'old' son talking about her son who died and 'it was a shock' seems the extent of her emotional vocabulary. I must admit to being surprised by these...limitations.

End of the day she was a child who got groomed online by an organisation who’s MO is to select vulnerable young people, who are isolated in their faith, isolate them further, coach them through leaving their families, and impress on them that the only righteous way is their way. Then she has lived through a war, lost two children, and ended up in a refugee camp pregnant. Plus she’s been living in a society where any expression of reflection or regret is profoundly seen as against God.

Stick her in front of the cameras of the West and she appears like the odd, dislocated kid that she is. De-radicalisation will take months or years. Not believing something after you’ve known it to be true- that takes time and exposure to another reality.

We should take her back because she is a UK citizen and our responsibility, but also out of mercy. I think that’s my view now.