British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[The Pale King]

She's not reported as saying anything, she is recorded speaking plainly on film, stating she has no regrets about running away to join ISIS, that she feels ISIS deserve to fail as they are not hardcore enough, ffs.

And whatever prosecution she may face should she get her arse back to the UK, it will not involve life without parole. And she can't be made stateless.

Get a grip.

I said I would be perfectly happy for her to spend the rest of her life in prison (made no comment on judicial system/life terms per se), in response to someone who said I was trying to excuse her actions, which I was not and have not done.

 

[kebabking]

"She expresses no regrets". Has it occurred to you that she is unable to speak freely? I would be wary of taking the Times report as gospel, who knows who else is in the camp.

I don't know if you've read her interview, but she quite happily goes on about how IS deserved to lose because they became corrupt. Not, I would suggest, the comments of one who has to hide her thoughts because theres an IS minder standing behind her with a bucket of unleaded...

 

[A380]

It presses all the leftie twonk buttons; brown skin, female, muslim ... Can do no wrong!

If this were a white nazi male who'd been greasing the wheels of the rape and murder of black Africans, most of the posters on this thread would have suddenly developed a taste for capital punishment.

Yep, 'of course an asian, muslim woman can't possibly be responsible for their actions' : racism pure and simple. The more enlightened of us know that people of asian heritage can be complete fucking idiots, specially after a few too many beers....

 

[The Pale King]

I don't know if you've read her interview, but she quite happily goes on about how IS deserved to lose because they became corrupt. Not, I would suggest, the comments of one who has to hide her thoughts because theres an IS minder standing behind her with a bucket of unleaded...

Sure, could be the critique of the true believer.

 

[8ball]

Yep, 'of course an asian, muslim woman can't possibly be responsible for their actions' : racism pure and simple. The more enlightened of us know that people of asian decent can be complete fucking idiots, specially after a few too many beers....

Hardly culturally specific - you should see what Whitey gets up to round my way after a few bevvies...

 

[A380]

Hardly culturally specific - you should see what Whitey gets up to round my way after a few bevvies...

I was actually being very very specific...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yep, 'of course an asian, muslim woman can't possibly be responsible for their actions' : racism pure and simple. The more enlightened of us know that people of asian heritage can be complete fucking idiots, specially after a few too many beers....

 

[tim]

Fuck off. I said upthread she should face justice in Britain and very possibly spend the rest of her life in prison. But I will not take as gospel what she is reported saying in the times. There might be reasons why she uses the form of words she does. I look forward to her facing justice.

What crime has she been accused of that under English law would merit a full life tariff?

The infamous Anjem Choudary, who was sentenced for crimes committed as an adult, served 2 years before being released on licence. You may want to "throw the key away" etc, but those aren't the sentences English courts hand down.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yep, 'of course an asian, muslim woman can't possibly be responsible for their actions' : racism pure and simple. The more enlightened of us know that people of asian heritage can be complete fucking idiots, specially after a few too many beers....

I mean we can all make up shit nobody said and then point out how bad it is to score some easy points but that's not very informative is it?

 

[Red Cat]

It presses all the leftie twonk buttons; brown skin, female, muslim ... Can do no wrong!

If this were a white nazi male who'd been greasing the wheels of the rape and murder of black Africans, most of the posters on this thread would have suddenly developed a taste for capital punishment.

Most posters on the thread have been critical and emphasised her agency.

 

[A380]

I mean we can all make up shit nobody said and then point out how bad it is to score some easy points but that's not very informative is it?

And you normally do.

 

[The Pale King]

What crime has she been accused of that under English law would merit a full life tariff?

The infamous Anjem Choudary, who was sentenced for crimes committed as an adult, served 2 years before being released on licence. You may want to "throw the key away" etc, but those aren't the sentences English courts hand down.

I don't think she has been. But she may well have participated in or witnessed slavery and genocide. You are quite right about the law, my language was loose.

 

[Treacle Toes]

There's no way of finessing this point really. Nonsense about how hard her life here must have been doesn't cut it - and is based on a bunch of unproven assumptions anyway. She grew up in a Bangladeshi family in Bethnal Green so must have had a deprived childhood? Get to fuck. That just doesn't hold water. A glance at educational achievement records shows that - high numbers of Bangladeshi girls doing well at school and going on to university. The idea that she was somehow driven to this by the evilness of British society is simply nonsense, and dangerous nonsense imo as it potentially obscures the actual motivations and drivers. The answers, if there are answers, are simply not that easy.

Who has argued those points exactly? Or have you just assumed that was what was meant?

What do you actually know about her upbringing? I am more interested in her actual influences and education, not what you assume she did or didn't know/was motivated by.

 

[Spymaster]

Most posters on the thread have been critical and emphasised her agency.

Bollocks.

There are loads of people posting here who we've all seen earnestly wish painful deaths on others just for voting for mainstream political parties they don't like or for chasing foxes on horseback. Those very same idiots are on this thread now, wringing their hands over this scumbag who pissed off to Syria for 4 years to engage in a spot of genocidal rape and torture. 'Ooooh, she was only 15' ... 'poor girl grew up in Bethnal Green' ... 'you can't expect her to express remorse from a refugee camp' ...

 

[SpookyFrank]

And you normally do.

Nice sidestep. Who exactly is it you think has argued that this person's religion or ethniticty excuses their actions?

 

[Treacle Toes]

So why does that happen? Why do those girls feel like that? Why did those girls commit to it together?

The million dollar question.

 

[Red Cat]

Bollocks.

There are loads of people posting here who we've all seen earnestly wish painful deaths on people for voting for mainstream political parties they don't like, or for chasing foxes on horseback. Those very same idiots are on this thread now, wringing their hands over this scumbag who pissed off to Syria for 4 years to engage in a spot of genocidal rape and torture. "Ooooh, she was only 15" ... "poor girl grew up in Bethnal Green" ... "you can't expect her to express remorse from a refugee camp" ...

Maybe you notice those posts because you're out for a fight but there have also been plenty of posts emphasising the agency of the girl.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The million dollar question.

One we won't answer if we disregard the possibility of outside influences affecting this person's actions, as they do for everyone else on the planet. 'She's just evil' isn't really much use in preventing evil acts in future.

But apparently considering the possibility of influences or contributing factors is just reverse racism.

 

[Spymaster]

Who exactly is it you think has argued that this person's religion or ethniticty excuses their actions?

 

[Spymaster]

Maybe you notice those posts because you're out for a fight but there have also been plenty of posts emphasising the agency of the girl.

I notice those posts because they’re written in black and fucking white by half the posters active on this thread!

 

[Riklet]

Interesting Twitter thread here which outlines some more details about the situation and mentions the real possibility of Kurdish prisoners being handed over to the Assad regime in the future. This is a view shared by the Guardian's brilliant Beth McKernan who is based in Istanbul and has covered the region a lot.

Essentially, with the US pulling out in the next few months and the Erdogan regime moving into Kurdish controlled areas, the Kurdish authorities may choose to make various deals with the Assad regime in the near future. This is likely to include arrangements with ISIS prisoners, foreign fighters and potentially other enemies of the regime.

Could or should that change views if in 3-6 months time Begun is likely to be kept in Syria but moved from the Kurish areas and potentially imprisoned/tortured/murdered there?

 

[A380]

One we won't answer if we disregard the possibility of outside influences affecting this person's actions, as they do for everyone else on the planet. 'She's just evil' isn't really much use in preventing evil acts in future.

But apparently considering the possibility of influences or contributing factors is just reverse racism.

You are just trolling now aren’t you? No one could actually misconstrue so many posts.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Interesting Twitter thread here which outlines some more details about the situation and mentions the real possibility of Kurdish prisoners being handed over to the Assad regime in the future. This is a view shared by the Guardian's brilliant Beth McKernan who is based in Istanbul and has covered the region a lot.

Essentially, with the US pulling out in the next few months and the Erdogan regime moving into Kurdish controlled areas, the Kurdish authorities may choose to make various deals with the Assad regime in the near future. This is likely to include arrangements with ISIS prisoners, foreign fighters and potentially other enemies of the regime.

Could or should that change views if in 3-6 months time Begun is likely to be kept in Syria but moved from the Kurish areas and potentially imprisoned/tortured/murdered there?

Doesn't change my view. I agree with those who say that she should be offered help to come back by the UK govt in the form of sorting out travel documents or even fronting up money for a plane ticket, but that the UK govt is under no obligation to go out of its way to mount a rescue operation on her behalf. If not mounting a rescue operation for her results in her death, that's not on the UK govt, imo.

 

[clicker]

I don't know the mileage or logistics involved here, but are there foreign aid workers helping in the refuge camp where she is at the moment? Just wondering about the likelihood of someone being offered enough money to get her to the Turkish consul? Would a newspaper stump up cash for copy?

 

[tim]

I don't know the mileage or logistics involved here, but are there foreign aid workers helping in the refuge camp where she is at the moment? Just wondering about the likelihood of someone being offered enough money to get her to the Turkish consul? Would a newspaper stump up cash for copy?

If The Times has the resources to get a journalists in and profit from her plight, they have the resources to get her out.

 

[kebabking]

Not for me - her greatest offences have been committed against Syrians, what they choose to do with her is a matter for them, and something which perhaps she should have thought a little harder about.

If she is transferred to the Assad regime then I wouldn't fall off my chair if she was used used as a propaganda tool, with heavily scripted RT interviews and the works. She might also just get shot...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If The Times has the resources to get a journalists in and profit from her plight, they have the resources to get her out.

Do they? Without putting their own people at further risk? Maybe you know something more about such things than me.

 

[A380]

If The Times has the resources to get a journalists in and profit from her plight, they have the resources to get her out.

It doesn’t really work like that.

 

[eoin_k]

"She expresses no regrets". Has it occurred to you that she is unable to speak freely?[/QUOTE ]

Have you listened to what she actually says? She gives a number of fairly clear indications that she is speaking her own mind candidly and not under duress.

I would be wary of taking the Times report as gospel, who knows who else is in the camp.

I'm not relying on the journalist's account being entirely accurate and strongly doubt the accuracy of specific details. I'd say
It is fairly certain she fits the profile of the people she is being held with, so there isn't much need for speculation on that count either.

 

[clicker]

If The Times has the resources to get a journalists in and profit from her plight, they have the resources to get her out.

I don't think The Times would want to upset their readers. But I wonder if her best bet at the moment is that a private individual/company stump up the cash for her 'rescue'. With a view to making money out of her on her return.