British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Teaboy]

In the current situation we're talking about a young pregnant British woman who wants to return to Britain. She should be allowed to return and helped to do so as far as is practical. The same would go for any British citizen regardless of gender or ethnicity or political orientation, although the pergnacy clearly makes the situation more urgent as would a serious health condition .

As far as I can gather she has no other nationality so there is no other state she could move to. There's no indication that she is being accused of any crime in the location she is currently located. If she were she should as far as practical be offered consular support. Wherever she is she has the right to a fair trial, again it is the British states duty to try to ensure this happens.

Its all moot anyway because you can't give UK consular service in a country where there are no UK consular services. But you know this anyway.

 

[Shechemite]

Who is stopping her from returning to Britain?

 

[kebabking]

Worth noting of course that she isn't actually a holder of a British passport - she used her sisters passport to travel to Syria, she doesn't have a British passport.

I look forward to our resident Heroes of the Working Class explaining to an underpaid D Grade official from the Passport Office who was expecting to knock off at 4 on a Friday in Liverpool and take her children to the Panto, why she should instead board an aircraft to Jordan, drive across the Syrian desert for several days in the company of D Sqn 22SAS, then hang about an IS infested refugee camp to provide consular support to someone who would happily see her throat cut.

Oh to be her TU rep....

 

[Teaboy]

Who is stopping her from returning to Britain?

Our cuddly and lovable home secretary wants to have a go at stopping her:

"My message is clear," Sajid Javid told the Times: "If you have supported terrorist organisations abroad I will not hesitate to prevent your return."

I reckon he's talking bollocks though because I don't see how he can beyond some completely illegal shenanigans.

 

[Spymaster]

Who is stopping her from returning to Britain?

Nobody. They're just not helping her, although Javid seems to be saying he could 'prevent her return' this morning. I'm not sure if he could legally do this if she just turned up at Heathrow though.

 

[LDC]

Worth noting of course that she isn't actually a holder of a British passport - she used her sisters passport to travel to Syria, she doesn't have a British passport.

I look forward to our resident Heroes of the Working Class explaining to an underpaid D Grade official from the Passport Office who was expecting to knock off at 4 on a Friday in Liverpool and take her children to the Panto, why she should instead board an aircraft to Jordan, drive across the Syrian desert for several days in the company of D Sqn 22SAS, then hang about an IS infested refugee camp to provide consular support to someone who would happily see her throat cut.

Oh to be her TU rep....

No need, someone up thread volunteered Tower Hamlets child protection services to pop over to Syria and sort it out.

 

[Spymaster]

 

[kebabking]

No need, someone up thread volunteered Tower Hamlets child protection services to pop over to Syria and sort it out.

Looks like the Employment Tribunals of Tower Hamlets will be booked solid for the next few years - you want me to do fucking what?!

 

[tim]

While I broadly agree that she should be allowed back, and perhaps helped to come back, being a member of IS is rather more than a 'political orientation'. That is to understate the case and to do a disservice to the thousands of victims of these fuckers.

Is having supporter of ISIS worse than being a former member of the UVF?

Ulster Volunteer Force - Wikipedia

If so why? If not why should they be treated differently?

 

[Spymaster]

Is having supporter of ISIS worse than being a former member of the UVF?

Ulster Volunteer Force - Wikipedia

If so why? If not why should they be treated differently?

If a member of the UVF was stuck in a camp in a war zone without consular connections, having facilitated the rape and murder of thousands over the last 4 years, I'd say fuck them too.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Our cuddly and lovable home secretary wants to have a go at stopping her:

"My message is clear," Sajid Javid told the Times: "If you have supported terrorist organisations abroad I will not hesitate to prevent your return."

I reckon he's talking bollocks though because I don't see how he can beyond some completely illegal shenanigans.

Gavin 'Shit-Eating Moron' Williamson suggested simply murdering any IS returnees before they got here. But no, you cannot under international law deny one of your citizens the right to return home. Traditionally a Home Secretary would have known shit like that.

 

[The Pale King]

Bring her home. She is our problem one way or another, the drive to making people stateless by the Tories will be used increasingly and applied to different groups. If she is tried/de-radicalised etc she could be a useful weapon against further such converts, or she may spend most of her life in prison. Either way, the process should be carried out here.

 

[Athos]

Is having supporter of ISIS worse than being a former member of the UVF?

Ulster Volunteer Force - Wikipedia

If so why? If not why should they be treated differently?

Why should either of them be helped?

 

[eoin_k]

Is having supporter of ISIS worse than being a former member of the UVF?

Ulster Volunteer Force - Wikipedia

If so why? If not why should they be treated differently?

You're setting the bar quite low there. I mean how different are Isis from Combat 18? Why can't we just all try to get along?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Gavin 'Shit-Eating Moron' Williamson suggested simply murdering any IS returnees before they got here. But no, you cannot under international law deny one of your citizens the right to return home. Traditionally a Home Secretary would have known shit like that.

Savid Javid knows that too, but he's just keen on his big, shiny head appearing to look tough on the TV, so he's come out with a steaming pile of bollocks.

 

[Shechemite]

Bring her home. She is our problem one way or another, the drive to making people stateless by the Tories will be used increasingly and applied to different groups. If she is tried/de-radicalised etc she could be a useful weapon against further such converts, or she may spend most of her life in prison. Either way, the process should be carried out here.

How do we bring her home? Why should she be priotised to be brought here over all those who are desperate?

 

[kebabking]

Bring her home....

Are you offering to go to Syria, and then put her up in your spare room - or are you one of those people who thinks that difficult and dangerous things should be done, but always by other people?

 

[Athos]

Gavin 'Shit-Eating Moron' Williamson suggested simply murdering any IS returnees before they got here. But no, you cannot under international law deny one of your citizens the right to return home. Traditionally a Home Secretary would have known shit like that.

That's not strictly true; the SoS can deprive British citizens of that citizenship in certain circumstances. Albeit I don't think he could in this case.

 

[Riklet]

Maybe if she has to find her own way back, following the refugee routes that millions of others have followed - displaced partly by her/her husband/her comrades - it will give the little brat some time to reflect on the severed heads in the bins and what choices she would like to make in life from now on.

If she makes it back to Britain then I think she should be treated fairly and equally like any other person, given NHS treatment, good legal representation, whatever. Quite another matter is spending millions getting her out of a Syrian refugee camp on a private flight and flown back for her baby's birth.

It seems awful to take any pleasure in her tragic situation and it's not one any of us would wish on any 19 year old, even if they have done awful things. But she is an adult and she has made her own choices. It would be quite another matter if she had wanted to come back one week after after she had run away and had made it to the Turkish border or whatever. But she didn't.... only now that the going has got tough in paradise has she shown any inclination to return.

And a grim reminder that she is by no means that unlucky compared to other ISIS brides.

 

[SpookyFrank]

She can live with that Peter Fahy bloke who ran the obviously failed Prevent thing and yet now seems to want to mouth off about what should become of those people he failed to protect.

 

[Spymaster]

It would be quite another matter if she had wanted to come back one week after after she had run away and had made it to the Turkish border or whatever. But she didn't.... only now that the going has got tough in paradise has she shown any inclination to return.

She stuck it out for 4 fucking years!

When asked about IS she said:

But she said she felt the IS "caliphate" was at an end.

"I don't have high hopes. They are just getting smaller and smaller," she said.

She doesn't have "high hopes" for the caliphate because they're being bombed to buggery.

Oh well, never mind.

 

[Mr Moose]

If she comes home in April to find we’ve left the EU, she’s going to think the world’s gone plain barmy!

 

[eoin_k]

There is a wide gulf between supporting Conservative rhetoric about making people stateless and calling for every effort to be made to bring Begum back to this country. If the war on terror has demonstrated anything, it's the limited ability of the state to provide a legal-juridical solution to this sort of situation without taking an authoritarian turn with consequences for the rest of us. Meanwhile, the prison system doesn't have a great track record on rehabilitating offenders at the best of times. You might even suspect that this wasn't its main purpose. Initiatives like the Prevent programme also manage to be both heavy-handed and completely ineffective. That the Government doesn't want to bring the likes of her back for a show trial shows that they don't have a solution, so they have to fall back on looking tough through exclusion and Nato airstrikes.

 

[Mr Moose]

She stuck it out for 4 fucking years!

When asked about IS she said:



She doesn't have "high hopes" for the caliphate because they're being bombed to buggery.

Oh well, never mind.

Yes, but she is a victim of at least statutory rape, possibly worse, has lived under bombardment and lost two babies. I’d suggest PTSD or even complex PTSD a high possibility. She’s also living in a refugee camp with devotees and may feel a tad under duress. I’d therefore be inclined to put little weight on comments attributed to her, for good or bad.

What’s important is the intelligence available about what she did and where she fitted in. High ranking like Samantha Lewthwaite or baby-machine? Obviously we should protect ourselves, but it’s reasonable to rationally assess her threat. She’s still only 19 and we don’t generally give up on individuals for their crimes at 15. She could become anything within the next ten years away from the illusions of the caliphate.

 

[Athos]

Yes, but she is a victim of at least statutory rape...

What makes you think that? What was the age of consent there at that time?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That's not strictly true; the SoS can deprive British citizens of that citizenship in certain circumstances. Albeit I don't think he could in this case.

Only if she has another nationality. You can't just take a person who is wholly a British citizen and make them stateless.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yes, but she is a victim of at least statutory rape, possibly worse, has lived under bombardment and lost two babies. I’d suggest PTSD or even complex PTSD a high possibility. She’s also living in a refugee camp with devotees and may feel a tad under duress. I’d therefore be inclined to put little weight on comments attributed to her, for good or bad.

What’s important is the intelligence available about what she did and where she fitted in. High ranking like Samantha Lewthwaite or baby-machine? Obviously we should protect ourselves, but it’s reasonable to rationally assess her threat. She’s still only 19 and we don’t generally give up on individuals for their crimes at 15. She could become anything within the next ten years away from the illusions of the caliphate.

Statutory rape is sex with a minor under the age of 13 in the UK. Not having sex with a 15 year old in Syria.

 

[Red Cat]

Yes, but she is a victim of at least statutory rape, possibly worse, has lived under bombardment and lost two babies. I’d suggest PTSD or even complex PTSD a high possibility. She’s also living in a refugee camp with devotees and may feel a tad under duress. I’d therefore be inclined to put little weight on comments attributed to her, for good or bad.

What’s important is the intelligence available about what she did and where she fitted in. High ranking like Samantha Lewthwaite or baby-machine? Obviously we should protect ourselves, but it’s reasonable to rationally assess her threat. She’s still only 19 and we don’t generally give up on individuals for their crimes at 15. She could become anything within the next ten years away from the illusions of the caliphate.

Again, we don't know anything about her state of mind, then or now. We can't guess with the little information we have, certainly not enough to make diagnoses.

 

[Athos]

Only if she has another nationality. You can't just take a person who is wholly a British citizen and make them stateless.

Yes, but that's not what he originally said.

 

[friedaweed]

Worth noting of course that she isn't actually a holder of a British passport - she used her sisters passport to travel to Syria, she doesn't have a British passport.

I look forward to our resident Heroes of the Working Class explaining to an underpaid D Grade official from the Passport Office who was expecting to knock off at 4 on a Friday in Liverpool and take her children to the Panto, why she should instead board an aircraft to Jordan, drive across the Syrian desert for several days in the company of D Sqn 22SAS, then hang about an IS infested refugee camp to provide consular support to someone who would happily see her throat cut.

Oh to be her TU rep....

It would be good if they sent Martina from the job centre to do her application.