British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Spymaster]

What’s important is the intelligence available about what she did and where she fitted in. High ranking like Samantha Lewthwaite or baby-machine? Obviously we should protect ourselves, but it’s reasonable to rationally assess her threat. She’s still only 19 and we don’t generally give up on individuals for their crimes at 15. She could become anything within the next ten years away from the illusions of the caliphate.

As far as her value to the security services is concerned, I doubt she has any. If she has then by all means go and get her but they'd probably have done that by now if they thought it worthwhile. With regards to what she may or may not become, I couldn't care less if she were demonstrably the next Florence Nightingale. She's one person in a camp of 36,000. Many of the others are the victims of the regime she went out to support. I'd put every single one of them ahead of her when doling out the sympathy.

 

[Spymaster]

What makes you think that? What was the age of consent there at that time?

14 in Syria.

 

[Mr Moose]

Again, we don't know anything about her state of mind, then or now. We can't guess with the little information we have, certainly not enough to make diagnoses.

Yes, that’s why I am saying we shouldn’t put much store in what she says. She could be largely damaged victim or determined jihadist.

 

[Mr Moose]

What makes you think that? What was the age of consent there at that time?

Statutory rape is sex with a minor under the age of 13 in the UK. Not having sex with a 15 year old in Syria.

I stand corrected.

 

[Mr Moose]

As far as her value to the security services is concerned, I doubt she has any. If she has then by all means go and get her but they'd probably have done that by now if they thought it worthwhile. With regards to what she may or may not become, I couldn't care less if she were demonstrably the next Florence Nightingale. She's one person in a camp of 36,000. Many of the others are the victims of the regime she went out to support. I'd put every single one of them ahead of her when doling out the sympathy.

I probably didn’t express that well. I meant what is known about her, rather than what she can tell us. There will be lots of people telling their stories and we would get some kind of idea of how she fitted in.

 

[LDC]

It would be good if they sent Martina from the job centre to do her application.

Rather this one... "Flight back to the UK? Computer says no."

 

[8ball]

Statutory rape is sex with a minor under the age of 13 in the UK. Not having sex with a 15 year old in Syria.

I thought “statutory rape” was an American term.

 

[Spymaster]

I meant what is known about her, rather than what she can tell us. There will be lots of people telling their stories and we would get some kind of idea of how she fitted in.

Not bothered. Even less so if repatriating her involves putting others in harm's way.

 

[8ball]

Not bothered. Even less so if repatriating her involves putting others in harm's way.

It shouldn’t put others in harm’s way, because they should be assessing whether she is any threat before letting her out of prison.

 

[Spymaster]

I thought “statutory rape” was an American term.

Yeah. In the UK sex with a kid under 13 is rape, regardless of consent. Sex with a 13-16 year old is "sexual activity with a child".

 

[LDC]

It shouldn’t put others in harm’s way, because they should be assessing whether she is any threat before letting her out of prison.

They'd have to go to Syria and sort it out before that happened. Going there is not quite like popping round the corner to the shops.

 

[kebabking]

It shouldn’t put others in harm’s way, because they should be assessing whether she is any threat before letting her out of prison.

I look forward to reading the nine million page Risk Assessment for sending a mental health assessment team to an IS infested refugee camp in northern Syria....

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, but she is a victim of at least statutory rape, possibly worse, has lived under bombardment and lost two babies. I’d suggest PTSD or even complex PTSD a high possibility. She’s also living in a refugee camp with devotees and may feel a tad under duress. I’d therefore be inclined to put little weight on comments attributed to her, for good or bad..

Let's not lay it on too thick that she's a victim here. All the shit she's been through, she chose it, in a way that many others in that camp did not choose it, and they will quite rightly despise her for that.

If you're going down the 'she's a victim' route, it's more akin to the compassion shown to convicted murderers - in the phrase of the former head of psychiatry at Broadmoor, 'they are survivors of a catastrophe, and that catastrophe was them themselves'.

 

[Red Cat]

Yes, that’s why I am saying we shouldn’t put much store in what she says. She could be largely damaged victim or determined jihadist.

She could be both, but neither her status as victim and/or victimiser, or her legal status as child or adult tells us very much about her.

 

[tonysingh]

This is a tough one and my opinion is worth little but that said, I'd be inclined to look at the fact she wants her baby born under the NHS auspices as a positive sign in that it shows a slight change in attitudes re the West. You can't expect to wholeheartedly renounce Daesh straight away, certainly not whilst she's in a refugee camp. She's unsafe there, she mugs off Daesh, she might as well sign her own death warrant. She's certainly made herself unsafe as it is,with this interview.

Also, no one is beyond redemption. Not even someone that's joined an evil organisation like the aforementioned Daesh. That's not to say she shouldn't face scrutiny from the authorities here, perhaps criminal charges if they can be brought.



At the same time, I'd be inclined to offer sanctuary to some of the victims of Daesh, like the Yazidi slaves for example, assuming they were willing to come here.

 

[A380]

Perhaps those that feel she should be brought home ( rather than waiting to see if she makes it on her own) could have a on line whip round- perhaps using Kickstarter. I’m sure there are many PMCs that would have the capability and capacity. I guess with the right contacts a six person team probably all or all but one locals and a couple of soft skinned vehicles could do the planning and activation phases in say 10 days. $400 a day x 10 x six people is only $24000 plus the cars, fuel, supplies , facilitation fees and the like. You could probably have her back at Heathrow for under £30k.

I won’t be contributing by the way...

 

[editor]

This is a tough one and my opinion is worth little but that said, I'd be inclined to look at the fact she wants her baby born under the NHS auspices as a positive sign in that it shows a slight change in attitudes re the West.

I'm not sure that is true at all.

 

[eoin_k]

I wonder how the split between people who are convinced that we can't know her mind, or should give her the benefit of the doubt, and those who feel her words should probably be taken at face value maps onto those who encountered Isis on social media at the time and those who didn't? There was a time period shortly before she went out there when Isis propoganda confronted you if you followed events in Syria on Twitter. This largely consisted of snuff movies with the production standards of a high-end music video.

 

[Spymaster]

... I'd be inclined to look at the fact she wants her baby born under the NHS auspices as a positive sign in that it shows a slight change in attitudes re the West.

I'd be inclined to think it shows that she's not entirely fucking stupid and realises that she'd be far more comfortable having the baby in a London hospital than a Syrian refugee camp.

 

[Teaboy]

This is a tough one and my opinion is worth little...

Your opinion is worth as much as anyone else's here.

 

[tonysingh]

I'm not sure that is true at all.

Yeah, I was just trying to see a positive.

Sorry, I'll polish my cynicism cloak for next time.

 

[Pickman's model]

Your opinion is worth as much as anyone else's here.

i think we may rely on tonysingh's valuation of his opinion

 

[The Pale King]

Are you offering to go to Syria, and then put her up in your spare room - or are you one of those people who thinks that difficult and dangerous things should be done, but always by other people?

Are you one of those people who thinks everyone has a spare room?

 

[Teaboy]

i think we may rely on tonysingh's valuation of his opinion

It was more a valuation of everyone else's opinion, mine included.

 

[The Pale King]

How do we bring her home? Why should she be priotised to be brought here over all those who are desperate?

She is British.

She seems to be in a camp with other foreign IS brides under supervision - someone posted a wee video upthread.

 

[kebabking]

Are you one of those people who thinks everyone has a spare room?

Top and tail?

 

[Don Troooomp]

I've just read, but lost the link, she can be refused entry until she's agreed to a bunch of stuff, then could face legal action upon return.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is a tough one and my opinion is worth little but that said, I'd be inclined to look at the fact she wants her baby born under the NHS auspices as a positive sign in that it shows a slight change in attitudes re the West. You can't expect to wholeheartedly renounce Daesh straight away, certainly not whilst she's in a refugee camp. She's unsafe there, she mugs off Daesh, she might as well sign her own death warrant. She's certainly made herself unsafe as it is,with this interview.

Also, no one is beyond redemption. Not even someone that's joined an evil organisation like the aforementioned Daesh. That's not to say she shouldn't face scrutiny from the authorities here, perhaps criminal charges if they can be brought.



At the same time, I'd be inclined to offer sanctuary to some of the victims of Daesh, like the Yazidi slaves for example, assuming they were willing to come here.

while that shows a nice spirit, and a touching belief in the innate goodness of this unfortunate woman, where she has been offered the opportunity to express contrition she has described the most appalling things in the most matter of fact way with no expression of wrong choices made or of remorse or regret for aiding and abetting the nefandous islamic state: which leaves me in no doubt that she's at best a deeply damaged individual. if she's a victim of daesh, she's been a most willing one. however, i applaud and second your suggestion for sanctuary for the devotees of melek taus

 

[The39thStep]

Isis woman Tareena Shakila released from British jail

 

[Teaboy]

I've just read, but lost the link, she can be refused entry until she's agreed to a bunch of stuff, then could face legal action upon return.

How can they actually refuse entry though if she just pitches up at Heathrow? Just leave her in limbo between the gates and security? It could end up as a bitter sweet comedy, someone should make a film like that.