Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

You can, and several countries have tried some of these people in absentia. My issue with this is that they don't necessarily get tried for the larger crimes they've committed because they get done for the crimes they committed in their home countries and not the crimes they committed in Iraq or Syria.

So they get 3 or 4 years for joining a terrorist organisation rather than life for their rape and murder rampage.
Isn’t the fear that if she goes to Bangladesh she could receive a death sentence? That doesn’t sound to me like she faces charges for the lesser crimes.
 
Isn’t the fear that if she goes to Bangladesh she could receive a death sentence? That doesn’t sound to me like she faces charges for the lesser crimes.

Not Bangladesh, because they've categorically said that they won't allow her in, despite her being a Bangladeshi citizen according to their own citizenship laws.

Iraq has offered to try her, but the cowardly UK government didn't expressly give permission because she may have been executed, and that got Macron into a world of shit when he allowed it for French prisoners. The Kurds have offered as well but they're not considered a state, so nobody's allowing that.
 
Not Bangladesh, because they've categorically said that they won't allow her in, despite her being a Bangladeshi citizen according to their own citizenship laws.

Iraq has offered to try her, but the cowardly UK government didn't expressly give permission because she may have been executed, and that got Macron into a world of shit when he allowed it for French prisoners. The Kurds have offered as well but they're not considered a state, so nobody's allowing that.
The British government has a policy of not sending people anywhere they might face the death penalty. I don't think that's a cowardly policy. Now withdrawing citizenship from someone based on a loophole and dumping responsibility for them on others who didn't even know she existed. That's a cowardly policy.
 
The British government has a policy of not sending people anywhere they might face the death penalty. I don't think that's a cowardly policy. Now withdrawing citizenship from someone based on a loophole and dumping responsibility for them on others who didn't even know she existed. That's a cowardly policy.
It’s probably a popular policy as I think the public are fed up of people being let into the country who then go on to commit atrocities. It may be that she isn’t a danger at all but unfortunately for her it feeds into that narrative.
 
It’s probably a popular policy as I think the public are fed up of people being let into the country who then go on to commit atrocities. It may be that she isn’t a danger at all but unfortunately for her it feeds into that narrative.
Certainly. It's populism at its worst. And this government at times makes a virtue out of flouting or in some way subverting international treaties.

She's not zero danger. She ran off to join ISIS! But that isn't reason to deny her rights. If rights can be denied, they're not actually rights at all.

But you're right that many people don't care too much about abstract notions of rights. As I said earlier, we need to be strong enough, imo, to resist the urge to cede powers and give up rights out of fear of terrorism.
 
The British government has a policy of not sending people anywhere they might face the death penalty. I don't think that's a cowardly policy. Now withdrawing citizenship from someone based on a loophole and dumping responsibility for them on others who didn't even know she existed. That's a cowardly policy.

Except it’s not a loophole. It’s the straightforward application of relatively simple law.
 
It’s probably a popular policy as I think the public are fed up of people being let into the country who then go on to commit atrocities. It may be that she isn’t a danger at all but unfortunately for her it feeds into that narrative.
there've been very few people let into the country who then go on to commit atrocities. most of our atrocities have been home grown - the murder of jo cox, for example. the 7/7 bombers. the doctors plots of 2007. maybe you could remind me of all these people who've been allowed in and then gone on to bomb, i think you'll find it's a rather shorter list than you believe.
 
No, this isn't true. If one of your parents was born in a nation that bestows nationality jus sanguinis, and you don't relinquish that nationality; or you hold dual nationality otherwise; you may be at risk of having your British citizenship revoked if you commit an extremely serious crime. So far the only examples anyone has been able to show on this thread is the case of someone joining ISIS.

Actual cases of deprivation of citizenship are vanishingly rare. About 40 people a year have their UK status pulled, and half of those are revoked because they were obtained fraudulently in the first place.
So trusting...

Thing is, the SB decision sets a precedent. Because its a precedent, then other examples will be scarce. And one thing you can be sure of is that what is considered nasty today will be extended tomorrow. We're already seeing calls to treat environmental protesters and RMT members as terrorists by certain politicians and the right wing media. Are you so naive as to see this as something to do with justice and rule of law? It really isn't.
 
there've been very few people let into the country who then go on to commit atrocities. most of our atrocities have been home grown - the murder of jo cox, for example. the 7/7 bombers. the doctors plots of 2007. maybe you could remind me of all these people who've been allowed in and then gone on to bomb, i think you'll find it's a rather shorter list than you believe.
Well the Manchester Arena bomber for starters. That exists in recent memory.
 
So trusting...

Thing is, the SB decision sets a precedent. Because its a precedent, then other examples will be scarce. And one thing you can be sure of is that what is considered nasty today will be extended tomorrow. We're already seeing calls to treat environmental protesters and RMT members as terrorists by certain politicians and the right wing media. Are you so naive as to see this as something to do with justice and rule of law? It really isn't.
nah he's just bored and pretending to be this naive.
 
So trusting...

Thing is, the SB decision sets a precedent. Because its a precedent, then other examples will be scarce. And one thing you can be sure of is that what is considered nasty today will be extended tomorrow. We're already seeing calls to treat environmental protesters and RMT members as terrorists by certain politicians and the right wing media. Are you so naive as to see this as something to do with justice and rule of law? It really isn't.
It's not the first time they've tried to withdraw citizenship from British people on the basis of their Bangladeshi heritage. In previous cases, it was deemed illegal because they were over 21 ( the age at which this putative right to citizenship expires). With Begum, it was deemed legal because she was under 21 at the time. I'm still staggered that people cannot see what is wrong with this.
 
Maybe on a parallel forum he's arguing with DM readers about how she should be given her citizenship back and a fair trial in the UK.
The way Derren Brown won a bunch of simultaneous chess matches by pitting the players' moves against each other?

I hope he's making a better job of it over there.
 
there've been very few people let into the country who then go on to commit atrocities. most of our atrocities have been home grown - the murder of jo cox, for example. the 7/7 bombers. the doctors plots of 2007. maybe you could remind me of all these people who've been allowed in and then gone on to bomb, i think you'll find it's a rather shorter list than you believe.
The London Bridge attackers also. That said, I doubt the public differentiate much between those allowed in who commit atrocities and those allowed in whose kids commit atrocities.
 
So trusting...

Thing is, the SB decision sets a precedent. Because its a precedent, then other examples will be scarce. And one thing you can be sure of is that what is considered nasty today will be extended tomorrow. We're already seeing calls to treat environmental protesters and RMT members as terrorists by certain politicians and the right wing media. Are you so naive as to see this as something to do with justice and rule of law? It really isn't.
Naivety doesn’t come into it. I’ve argued what the law is, and the penny seems to have finally dropped even for LBJ. Now you can say that you don’t like the law and disagree with it, but to say it’s something else is just idiocy.
 
Last edited:
I hope he's making a better job of it over there.

Phwoar. That’s rich coming from you!

You’ve been incinerated on this at least 4 times now because you simply don't understand what you're trying to argue. Athos gave you a jolly good spanking too.

Cheeky git.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom