8ball
Decolonise colons!
Then you are a capitalist oppressor and the neckshot is in the post.
British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'
- Thread starter hipipol
- Start date
Then you are a capitalist oppressor and the neckshot is in the post.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Couldn't you pay someone to post for you?
And besides, you started arguing with me in post #5,519 and not the other way round.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Stop coming out with these facts and expecting them to bolster your case
I agree with your summary of them, but I'm not sure about your interpretation of what he meant by it. That western left wingers were only giving IS a pass because of being too busy criticizing right wing terror (therefore IS very much not part of that right wing) seemed implicit in the statement.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I saw it the other way about - that 'the left' was so obsessed with mirroring 'the right' that anything the 'the right' disliked 'the left' gave a bit of a free pass to - that the enemies of IS were 'the lefts' focus, not IS itself.
Personally I think such attempted definitions are utterly vacuous - that, as with Ukraine, there are so many violently different opinions within both the left and the right on the subject that to suggest there is a 'left' view and a 'right' view is to deny the Sun while staring it in the face.
That's not, of course, to suggest that a significant slice of 'left,' opinion didn't go there...
The bottom line is that because Begum is brown and has a vagina she is being considered differently via liberal QED than if she was white with a cock going into a fascist killing and rape spree. We all know this but still have to go through various mental gymnastics with folk who deny that's the case.
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Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Are you daft? Sure there are eejits on the left that might think like that... or it's a convenient straw man to have a go at. But there are those on the left who are trying to take a more reasoned approach. Try arguing against those people's views rather than what you want them to be.
I know the left well enough, over decades not years, to understand the various biases and where they lead.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Nope, if a white male 15-year-old did what she'd done I'd also want him to keep his citizenship and be prosecuted for his crimes. Born here, raised here, they're ours to deal with.
The odds are Begum would end up in prison for life.
The only gender-related part, really, is that stripping her of her citizenship also meant her last son, who still had a chance, was left to die. And his mother was, until her citizenship was stripped, a British citizen, and he had family here that seem to be relatively sound. Not sure what that baby was supposed to have been guilty of.
It's impossible to find a similar case but I don't accept this as true.
White male nationalists imprisoned for various offenses are regularly discussed on here and there are never any opposing voices. And rightly so.
Yet they haven't done the half of what she faces. They've been sanctioned for downloading terrorist manuals. Being part of a subscribed group.
She traversed a continent to join a group actively at war and doing the whole terrorist thing, raping and killing people. Why the tears? Jesus.
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scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I don't think there are any tears for Begum herself.
I can't speak for everyone, but if a 15-year-old British boy did the same, I'd also want him to come back and be tried and most likely spend the rest of his life in prison. What a weak liberal I am for hoping for... life in prison after a trial.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Lol, what?!
The offence of which she'd likely be convicted is s.4 Border Security Act 2019 known as 'Entering or Remaining in a Designated Area'. That offence carries a maximum sentence of 10 years, which would be for e.g. adults suspected of fighting who have not already received any punishment. Given she was a minor and non-combatant, and already served a considerable time in prison, she'd likely get four years, which would mean she'd be entitled to release on license after two. And that's if she's convicted; her lawyer's would push the defence that alleged grooming and trafficking meant she didn't travel voluntarily.
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What's wrong with her current predicament? It's what she chose after all.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not sure scifisam's as au fait with the law as you
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scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Oh come on. You're not really making a good play for let her hang.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I don't want her to hang. But the idea that if she came back any risk she poses would be minimised by a significant prison term is fanciful.
And still no one gets all worked up about Alexanda Koety. Stripped of his British citizenship. Where were the pages and pages saying he should have been brought back to the UK.
Oh but I didnt' see it at the time and yeah should etc. Point is, nothing, no one raised it. In fact I've probably mentioned him more times just on this thread.
Oh but I didnt' see it at the time and yeah should etc. Point is, nothing, no one raised it. In fact I've probably mentioned him more times just on this thread.
He hasn't got a vagina so nobody cares about his destiny.
I think you have a point. Along with her age, patriarchy is playing some role both in the extremis condemnation and the, she must have been groomed, bring her home, she had babies, she can tell the school kids don't join Isis, it's not cool mkey.
There's El Shafee Elsheikh too whom TBF I haven't even mentioned. But again stripped of British citizenship.
Humberto
minor kerfuffles ensue
Stupid comment
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Facts? Tanya's response was hardly "arguing."
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Totally get what you mean but psychotic ≠ having a shit personality/dreadful politics/being a psychopath.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Sure you find it odd if you can't work out why people might feel that way.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
He was 29 when he left the UK to join ISIS, not 15. He had two other citizenships, actually beheaded people, and he was actually given a trial which resulted in a sentence to be partly served in the US and then the UK.
I do still think he should have been treated as a British citizen and not have his citizenship taken away, because he was born here and spent most of his life here.
But it's not merely gender at play here, is it.
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
I would think anyone with an IQ above 50 reading my post to its end (it is rather short really) could see that my post indicates clearly why I think people project such position, im not going to waste time expanding for numbskulls
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
This would be the elderly woman whose troops killed civilians in Ireland, Kenya, Malaysia, Iraq, Afghanistan, England, Korea, Germany, Cyprus, Kosovo, Bosnia, Sierra Leone, aden, and numerous other countries. Whose governments have led us to the shit we're in now. Whose constables rape, murder, criminalise and intimidate. Frankly i find it really really strange you can't see why people would eagerly anticipate the death of Elizabeth ii and indeed the extirpation of her nefandous family. By contrast sb is a model citizen
Athos
Well-Known Member
In fairness, she was literally groomed to it from birth, by everyone around her.
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