Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
I realise you're a known troll on here but are you really that fucking dense? The scandal was a consequence of recent government actions.
British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'
- Thread starter hipipol
- Start date
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
You’re not usually this silly.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember that there were allegations in the press that she sewed bombs into vests (and carried an AK47 as part of the morality police). But I've no idea whether or not that's true.
Athos
Well-Known Member
He cares about the subject; he doesn't care - in the sense of having any sympathy - about her situation.
bimble
floofy
You are making no sense. You're basically just standing in the village square excited to throw rotten veg at the monstrous Shamima but you keep posting to try to pretend its something more than that, and have ended up saying some really stupid stuff as a result.
bimble
floofy
What subject? He cares about citizenships being removed because he thinks thats a good and important thing? okay.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I think he cares to the extent he supports the existence and use of these powers.
bimble
floofy
If defending a home office power which isn't even threatened with change gets you all excited fair enough i suppose.
I think he just wanted to wind up some bleeding hearts by shouting 'let her hang' but has ballsed it up and ended up looking a bit daft, never mind.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Yes, he's somewhat overplayed his hand.
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
It's the absolute paradox of democratic societies. States governed (broadly) by their people will do bad things, because people do bad things - but states not governed by their people aren't democracies.
Personally I have no problem with the principle of the removal of citizenship - even when that makes someone stateless - what matters, for me,is who gets to make that decision, and how, and to who, they have to justify it.
I would prefer it if the Home Secretary had to go to a panel of senior judges to get it through, and that it was then voted on in parliament. It's a big decision, and it needs the widest possible buy-in from society in order to be legitimate.
She played (at best) a logistical role for a genocidal rape cult. Not sure Hitler actually detonated any bombs either.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you don't think he ever threw a grenade. despite him serving on the front in the first world war. right.
i love engaging with you except when as today your attention is clearly elsewhere.
I hadn’t realised the First World War was Hitler’s fascism.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
oh - you didn't know he'd fought in the first world war
Was he fighting a fascist cause? Otherwise it’s sort of pointless mentioning it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You said you didn't think Hitler ever detonated a bomb. I submit that he's likely to have being as he fought for four years. You didn't say you didn't think he'd detonated a bomb while a member of the nsdap, which would have been a rather different matter - I responded to the point you made, not the point you're now arguing
Where did I say he had never detonated a bomb? I thought the context was obvious - fascism ergo WWII. Anyway as we’re drifting completely off topic we should probably park it there.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh there was no fascist aggression before 1939 so let's move on
Athos
Well-Known Member
The trouble is that, by definition, most people are average or below.
bimble
floofy
Not when it comes to driving though everyone is exceptionally good at that.
Athos
Well-Known Member
There's some drivers that deserve hanging, for sure.
The other paradox is the cooperation with some dictators and not with others. That's really the only reason why Britain is in this mess. She moved to Syria, committed the crimes there, has not left that territory, and should really be tried by them at their earliest convenience (and tough luck for her if that's years away due to their domestic issues with state functioning). Whatever she arguably was when she went, she's now just an adult who doesn't live in the UK.
Britain doesn't want her (although in truth, the state doesn't actually care and has no principle at stake - she's simply a wonderfully useful example the Tories can campaign with as being tough on crime, particularly if some kind of foreign origin can be roped into the mix - young, photogenic, notorious, and safe to openly hate) but it can't openly cooperate with Assad like that, so they've loudly stripped her of her citizenship and tried to palm it off on Bangladesh.
If she had done this in innumerable other countries, some with equally horrible heads of state, she wouldn't have been stripped of citizenship, or turned into tabloid campaign fodder, and a third country wouldn't have been identified out of a line up. She'd have simply been left there, and the relevant British Embassy would've said 'yes you are our citizen, but you aren't in the UK - you went there, you did it, you pay for it there - or not, according to that country'.
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If she was a dual national combo of British and anything, and she'd done this in Thailand or India or the United States, the most she'd have merited would be a short list of local lawyers known to the embassy that she and/or her family might like to engage, and a request made public that 'if convicted could she please not be given the death penalty because she's British and we don't do that here, so we need to make a polite show about you potentially doing it'.
Maybe, maybe not. She's not on trial - yet. Her guilt or innocence can't be said because it hasn't been established, let alone has any mitigation been weighed against a verdict. It's just broadly two camps shouting at each other 'leave her to die, she's an evil cunt' v 'she's an innocent lamb who was led astray'. We can't really say she's either, because we simply don't know.
We can't even start the process to that knowledge until some jurisdiction stands up and says 'she's our problem'. That should be Syria, but for obvious reasons it isn't. Absent of that it should Britain, because this is where she was born and raised and then either unleashed upon Syria of her own free will or imported there. It can't realistically be Bangladesh - if only for the simple reason they've outright refused anyway. It makes very little sense for it to be The Netherlands which I've also seen floated owing to her husband being a Dutch national.
She's too useful to the British government in her current state and status - they couldn't have dreamt her up. She's all of Suella Braverman's Christmases come at once - probably the only topic where the majority of the British public would nod along in harmony with the Home Secretary. So, unless Syria turns into a model of efficiency, she's most likely to be in this position for years, and the rather pointless conversation around her in the UK will continue for years with no resolution in sight.
She travelled over two and a half thousand miles to join a newly formed Caliphate at war with the country she had left, amongst others. Unless she has the mental capacity of a frog she must have known the implications of doing that alone, without even contemplating the grotesque stuff they all got up to.
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