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British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

tim said:
I can think of at least two vague acquaintances killed in tree related incidents and none in terror attacks.
About 14 people have been killed in London inJihadi attacks over the last decade. Google shows a fair few people die every year because they drive into a tree, fall out of one, or are crushed by one falling upon them.


The main point is though whilst terrorist attacks make the headlines, they're very low down on the list of real urban dangers.
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I only ask because I have never known any Londoner killed by a tree but I have known one person murdered & another two who have been injured in terrorist attacks. If you go back 15 years then the number murdered goes up by 48.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
There is an additional consideration, and that is a simple principle. I'm not necessarily advocating someone risking their life to save her, but if at some point there is a chance to bring her back to the UK safely - which involves getting money to her, for instance, which consulates do do in exceptional circumstances - that principle would kick in: she is a problem, and she is our problem, so you bring her back here regardless of other consequences. Ditching or being flexible with that principle itself has dangerous consequences.
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See, I don't see her as being part of 'us' anymore, and therefore I don't see her as being 'our' problem - her unborn is slightly different, but only so far as being a child in need of being somewhere a long way from its biological parents, ideally never knowing who they were.

I'll happily help the child, but I wouldn't piss on the woman if she was on fire.
 
Athos said:
That's a flawed way of thinking about risk. You could have said the same in the early days of the rise of Nazism.
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Have you at the Michel Houellebecq again? We are clearly not on the verge of the country becoming a Caliphate.
 
kebabking said:
See, I don't see her as being part of 'us' anymore, and therefore I don't see her as being 'our' problem - her unborn is slightly different, but only so far as being a child in need of being somewhere a long way from its biological parents, ideally never knowing who they were.

I'll happily help the child, but I wouldn't piss on the woman if she was on fire.
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I feel a little different, but I can't particularly argue with that. But I do think states ditching that 'us' bit is a dangerous thing in and of itself - if, as in this case, the person wants to come back. Even if, as in this case, the likely outcome is that she is sent to prison for a stretch as soon as she comes back.
 
LynnDoyleCooper said:
So only what happens in London (or the UK) is important in understanding the totality of possible risk and consequences?

Do you think you might not be in possession of many of the facts about this topic?
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As I was responding to a response to this comment I made

As a Londoner I'm more likely to be killed by a tree than by a Jihadi terrorist, even a 19 year old one pushing a pram
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It was obviously the relevant answer to give. Do try and keep up with the statement in my original post.

And anyway the consequences of and risks posed by a pregnant nineteen year old returning to London, which is the topic of this thread, are clearly London linked consequences and risks. I can't see her returning to London would have much effect on the lives of the people or urban fabric of Tokyo, Berlin, Toulouse, Sao Paolo or even Swansea.
 
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It sad to see the innocence of childhood fade away and this story of a 15 year old who ran away to a state that sought to expand by the use of suicide bombers as a recognised tactic is a tragic example of that loss of innocence.

They blow up so fast don’t they.


( Sorry. If there were a hell I’d be going)
 
tim said:
Have you at the Michel Houellebecq again? We are clearly not on the verge of the country becoming a Caliphate.
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I didn't say we are. But that risk of a rising movement cannot be accurately calculated solely on historic quantitative data.
 
tim said:
I can think of at least two vague acquaintances killed in tree related incidents and none in terror attacks.
About 14 people have been killed in London inJihadi attacks over the last decade. Google shows a fair few people die every year because they drive into a tree, fall out of one, or are crushed by one falling upon them.


The main point is though whilst terrorist attacks make the headlines, they're very low down on the list of real urban dangers.
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I'd rather stand next to a tree than a suicide bomber, if that OK with you.
 
editor said:
Sorry if I missed this, but how did her other two children die and how was the story verified?
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She's said both children died in the last few months from malnutrition and a lack of medicine, according to the BBC. I don't think the story's been verified independently, doesn't seem like it would be easy to do so.

Her first child, a girl, died at the age of one year and nine months, and was buried in Baghuz a month ago.

Her second child - the first to die - died three months ago at the age of eight months, of an illness that was compounded by malnutrition, the Times reports.

She told the paper she took him to a hospital. "There were no drugs available, and not enough medical staff," she said.
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Tonight, completely coincidentally, I saw a mate who I haven't seen for about 2 years, turns out he was caught up in the attacks in Barcelona and after 9 operations is now blind in his right eye which is the most obvious injury . Let alone the ptsd he has had to put up with or other physical injuries he had and has overcome. He has visibly aged and was clearly affected deeply by it despite putting on a brave face. I didn't ask him too much about it as we were chatting about other shit and I was working. He is a victim of the organisation that she (still?) supports and there are many thousands of others that are also and who are now dead.

She has stated she has no regrets, she has stated she is not silly girl any more and even if she was at 15 I bet she grew up pretty fucking quick in that environment. She states that Deash do not deserve , interesting choice of words, to win- why not? Probably because she thinks they are weak, not because their ideals are disgusting or that she disagrees with them.

She has only 1 aim - to live in peace with her kid. How many thousands of victims of Deash would have liked to have this opportunity?

I'm glad the gvt has stated it won't risk lives to get her back her, there are far more deserving cases out there which aren't getting support so why should she? If she gets herself to a consulate then she can get the same (lack of) help as anyone else. If she gets back to the UK I hope she's convicted of something and they take the child put it into care and she never ever sees it again.

As far as I am concerned the money that would be spent on her should be spent assisting the victims, she can get to fuck, a complete wrongun.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
We're all at a loss, aren't we? Norway has just about the highest living standard in the world, extensive social security networks, etc, yet it produced Anders Breivik. I don't think there are clear answers to any of this stuff. Even in a virtually ideal society, people would come along who would do terrible shit.

Aside from the obvious - stop starting wars and get out of the ones you've already started - I don't have any particular ideas wrt Britain, although 'don't start wars' is a very good place to start, I think, if you're serious about not producing violent extremists.
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You're at a loss. I'm not.


littlebabyjesus said:
Let's not go overboard the other way though. She knew exactly what IS were and what they did before she went, and her reaction to it was 'can I join in?'
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That's complete bullshit.
 
Athos said:
For not having a lot of sympathy for a keen and unrepentant supporter of a brutal, authoritarian regime which committed mass rape, torture, and murder, motivated by racism, misogyny, homophobia, and religious hate. :rolleyes:
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No - for describing a situation in which an innocent child suffers as "win/win".

Although for the record, if I was picking you up on your opposition to bigotry I'd probably highlight your transphobia and call you a hypocrite.
 
SpackleFrog said:
Fucking state of this thread. If you want someone to blame for Daesh then you can start with Dubya and Blair. Don't see anyone demanding social services intervene in their lives.



:facepalm:
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SSSSsssh now. Apparently that's not relevant in the slightest and has no bearing as to why a young'un form Bethnal green saw fit to brutalise herself as a member of the daesh cult. She heard they were fanatics, murders, rapists etc and thought waheyyyyyyyyyyyyy! Have it! :facepalm:
 
I reckon Jack Strawer is worse than Gehardy John. If you think about it. That taxi driver who got beheaded in Iraq, remember him? Basically that's because of the minimum wage you voted for Labour. Your fault actually.
 
Remember the Jordanian pilot they burned to death? Well yeah, you better fucking remember. you made that happen because you cravenly exercised your democratic right to vote for a party, who which are basically like all the other parties and just a different facet of neo liberalist capitalist destruction. You practically lit the match, you disgusting hipocritical monsters

e2a, my bad. Sorry. Jordanian.
 
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xenon said:
We've all done silly things as a young adult. Drank your parents booze, smashed up a bus stop, threw lit fireworks into a park bin... Jumped on a plane to go and join a murderess rreligious sect.

Just teenage larks innit.
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No. That is not what is being said. When you run away from home, for real, that is NOT a teenage lark like getting in a bit of trouble or having a rowdy party. When a 15 year old leaves their home and their community they do that because they do not want to be there any more, regardless of how bad the alternative is, and they don't believe anyone will help them either.
 
SpackleFrog said:
That's complete bullshit.
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No it's not. Four years ago I was aware of most of the shit IS were up to. She looked into it. She will have known much better than me. The idea that she didn't have any idea that they were a bunch of murdering cunts is absurd. Of course she knew. And her reaction was 'can I join?'
 
SpackleFrog said:
No. That is not what is being said. When you run away from home, for real, that is NOT a teenage lark like getting in a bit of trouble or having a rowdy party. When a 15 year old leaves their home and their community they do that because they do not want to be there any more, regardless of how bad the alternative is, and they don't believe anyone will help them either.
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Yeah, and they all join isis. Or except they don't. so what's your point?
 
littlebabyjesus said:
No it's not. Four years ago I was aware of most of the shit IS were up to. She looked into it. She will have known much better than me. The idea that she didn't have any idea that they were a bunch of murdering cunts is absurd. Of course she knew. And her reaction was 'can I join?'
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She was 15.

She was born in 2000.

She was Muslim.

She lived her whole life in a country where Muslims were demonised every single day in the media. Where she was told she was the enemy. Where far right groups formed specifically to target her.

Never mind the stuff we don't know about her. What might have been happening at school or at home. Just look at the stuff we know.

You're a lot slacker on the anti racist stuff when it doesn't concern the single market, aren't you?
 
It's not going to go down well if she makes it back and then is housed at public expense because of her sex and her kid
 
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