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British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

Ha, this quote by the head of the Met Counter-Terrorism Unit in the article above: '“If you are running agents, you are acquiescing to what they are doing. You are turning a blind eye to their actions because it is being trumped by a rich vein of intelligence.” - I don't recall them following that line during the SpyCops scandal, oddly enough.
 
Lorca said:
Ha, this quote by the head of the Met Counter-Terrorism Unit in the article above: '“If you are running agents, you are acquiescing to what they are doing. You are turning a blind eye to their actions because it is being trumped by a rich vein of intelligence.” - I don't recall them following that line during the SpyCops scandal, oddly enough.
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Obviously. That's only when they're slagging off other people running agents
 
Flavour said:
possibly nonesense but pretty wild claims nonetheless being reported in the Times, de-paywalled here>
archive.ph

Shamima Begum ‘was smuggled into Syria by western spy’ | News | The T…

archived 30 Aug 2022 18:17:45 UTC
archive.ph archive.ph

articles claims shamima and her mate were smuggled into Syria by a double agent who was working for both ISIS and Canadian intelligence
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This was reported back in 2015:

 
danny la rouge said:
Same way they were complicit in paramilitary murders in Northern Ireland, I’d imagine: operatives embedded in the organisations doing stuff with the full knowledge and support of superiors.
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Like what, in the case of smuggling Begum to IS?

This chap seems to have some information that few others are aware of. Does he lay it out somewhere or are we just expected to believe him?
 
Spymaster said:
Like what, in the case of smuggling Begum to IS?

This chap seems to have some information that few others are aware of. Does he lay it out somewhere or are we just expected to believe him?
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I know nothing of this guy, his credibility, or his evidence. All I'm saying is that it's entirely believable that if the UK security services had infiltrated an Islamist sect, or a people-smuggling operation, their operatives would take part in the activities in the full knowledge of basically the UK state. That's very much how it works. There's any number of credible histories of various spheres you could consult. I see no reason to believe IS and Syria would be any different.
 
danny la rouge said:
I know nothing of this guy, his credibility, or his evidence. All I'm saying is that it's entirely believable that if the UK security services had infiltrated an Islamist sect, or a people-smuggling operation, their operatives would take part in the activities in the full knowledge of basically the UK state. That's very much how it works. There's any number of credible histories of various spheres you could consult. I see no reason to believe IS and Syria would be any different.
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If the UK didn't have agents (not officers) inside ISIS I'd want my (tax) money back. Doesn't mean they had any degree of control, I doubt they were anywhere near as embedded as in the later stages of the Irish campaign. This opinion just based on the time lines and lack of the close links there were Northern Ireland.

I'm still interested at why so many people seem to want to deny Shamima Begum her agency in this?
 
danny la rouge said:
I know nothing of this guy, his credibility, or his evidence. All I'm saying is that it's entirely believable that if the UK security services had infiltrated an Islamist sect, or a people-smuggling operation, their operatives would take part in the activities in the full knowledge of basically the UK state. That's very much how it works. There's any number of credible histories of various spheres you could consult. I see no reason to believe IS and Syria would be any different.
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I've just been reading about Sabir and downloaded his book, although that's about something else. The allegation seems to be that a guy who was involved in the transport operation was also supplying intelligence to the Canadian embassy in Jordan, some of which may have been shared with British security services, including the names and addresses of people smuggled. That's intelligence gathering, not complicity in the smuggling of people.
 
Spymaster said:
I've just been reading about Sabir and downloaded his book, although that's about something else. The allegation seems to be that a guy who was involved in the transport operation was also supplying intelligence to the Canadian embassy in Jordan, some of which may have been shared with British security services, including the names and addresses of people smuggled. That's intelligence gathering, not complicity in the smuggling of people.
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I don't know the details. But it's not beyond belief they were more involved than is currently alleged.
 
A380 said:
If the UK didn't have agents (not officers) inside ISIS I'd want my (tax) money back. Doesn't mean they had any degree of control, I doubt they were anywhere near as embedded as in the later stages of the Irish campaign.

I'm still interested at why so many people seem to want to deny Shamima Begum her agency in this?
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If the operative who smuggled her to IS was a double agent, that doesn't affect her agency compared to being smuggled by a non-double agent. It does, however, reflect something on the nature of the operations if they were happy to participate in the recruitment of 15-year-olds. It means that she was sacrificed to a larger cause. It means, regardless of her agency, that the UK owes her something.

Not saying I think this is what happened, but like danny, I would say that it is the sort of thing that does happen.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
If the operative who smuggled her to IS was a double agent, that doesn't affect her agency compared to being smuggled by a non-double agent. It does, however, reflect something on the nature of the operations if they were happy to participate in the recruitment of 15-year-olds. It means that she was sacrificed to a larger cause. It means, regardless of her agency, that the UK owes her something.

Not saying I think this is what happened, but like danny, I would say that it is the sort of thing that does happen.
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Profiting from information supplied about things beyond your control doesn't make you complicit in those acts. Wilhelm Canaris supplied information to British security services throughout 1943 and 1944. That doesn't make the British government complicit in the Holocaust. What Sabir has alluded to there, is UK and Canadian involvement in the smuggling of Begum to IS, to the extent that her citizenship should be restored. He needs to show us what he alleges he knows.
 
Spymaster said:
Profiting from information supplied about things beyond your control doesn't make you complicit in those acts. Wilhelm Canaris supplied information to British security services throughout 1943 and 1944. That doesn't make the British government complicit in the Holocaust. What Sabir has alluded to there, is UK and Canadian involvement in the smuggling of Begum to IS, to the extent that her citizenship should be restored. He needs to show us what he alleges he knows.
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I wouldn't judge the extent of involvement to need to be very large for the UK to have to take some responsibility for what happened. Simply knowing about the smuggling and failing to stop it because stopping it would have blown agents' cover would be enough - it would mean that Begum and others were sacrificed to the larger cause when they could have been stopped.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
If the operative who smuggled her to IS was a double agent, that doesn't affect her agency compared to being smuggled by a non-double agent. It does, however, reflect something on the nature of the operations if they were happy to participate in the recruitment of 15-year-olds. It means that she was sacrificed to a larger cause. It means, regardless of her agency, that the UK owes her something.

Not saying I think this is what happened, but like danny, I would say that it is the sort of thing that does happen.
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Playing straight down the line for ISIS, western agent or double agent. The people who facilitated young people to travel to join the ISIS ‘Caliphate’ were cunts.

Doesn’t mean the young people who traveled didn’t have agency though.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
I wouldn't judge the extent of involvement to need to be very large for the UK to have to take some responsibility for what happened. Simply knowing about the smuggling and failing to stop it because stopping it would have blown agents' cover would be enough - it would mean that Begum and others were sacrificed to the larger cause when they could have been stopped.
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I disagree with that, but even if I didn’t, it’s quite a high bar you’ve set there. That UK security services knew that Begum, specifically, was being trafficked, and could have prevented it. At the moment we have the word of a Muslim academic and campaigner, on Twitter. Let’s see more evidence.
 
Isn't the claim that the UK became aware she'd gone to Syria, through intel shared by Canada, provided by the Canadian agent who helped her get there, after the fact? Is anybody suggesting the UK knew she was going to travel but chose not to stop her?
 
Athos said:
Isn't the claim that the UK became aware she'd gone to Syria, through intel shared by Canada, provided by the Canadian agent who helped her get there, after the fact?
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That’s my current understanding. Quite how that makes the UKG complicit in her trafficking, I’m not sure.
 
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