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British and Irish Lions

Thought Byrne, Williams (7), Paul and Roberts were very good.

Poor Earls. He's better than that and he'll need careful management to make sure he bounces back rather than going the other way.

Poor Earls indeed. Many are criticising POC for failing to go over and calm him down in that shocking first 20. Should be the captain's duty, no?

Tell you one thing that became very, very clear from today's game: the Lions are missing and will continue to miss the presence of Shanklin and Henson on this tour. They will prove to be costly injuries, IMO. I think you were right a few weeks ago when you said that D'Arcey should go out to replace Shanks. We need an old head in that centre pairing, and BOD aside, there just ain't one.

They could also really, really have done with Flannery staying unbroken. Our problems at hooker are serious, and up against Matfield and Botha I've got a nasty feeling we're going to be horribly exposed at the lineout.

A final point - Wallace ain't no 8, is he? It's a shame, because I'd have loved to see the Wallace/Williams 8/7 combination working. Unfortunately it looks like one or the other of them won't be starting the tests, which is a pity for whichever one it is of two immensely talented footballers that misses out:(
 
Today's result is quite worrying, I wasn't expecting a thrashing but a comfortable victory at least. Things looked very slow.

When combined with the other result that took place but a few miles away from the stadium in which the Lions huffed and puffed ineffectually, it's defcon one worrying. The Bulls violated the Waikato Chiefs by a clear fifty points. Didn't see it, but apparently they were on another level entirely - serious intensity.

The spheres are aligning in all the wrong directions.
 
Just seen the BBC report on yetserdats match on brekkie tele. Unbelievably they managed to give an account of the game that didnt mention Lee Byrne once. Evidently ROG won the game on his own second half!
 
Just seen the BBC report on yetserdats match on brekkie tele. Unbelievably they managed to give an account of the game that didnt mention Lee Byrne once. Evidently ROG won the game on his own second half!

Heh. Ian Cunting Robertson gave a special mention in dispatches to Joe Whohe and Shaw, amazingly enough. In my opinion they were two of the worst players on the pitch. Agenda? Surely not!

Some other clueless twat also managed to claim that Mighty Destroyer of Worlds Andrew Sheridan was pushing Gethin Jenkins for his test place as a result of yesterday's performance.

There are few pundits/journos I pay any attention to, and it's cocks like these who give me my reason.:mad:
 
Heh. Ian Cunting Robertson gave a special mention in dispatches to Joe Whohe and Shaw, amazingly enough. In my opinion they were two of the worst players on the pitch. Agenda? Surely not!

Some other clueless twat also managed to claim that Mighty Destroyer of Worlds Andrew Sheridan was pushing Gethin Jenkins for his test place as a result of yesterday's performance.

There are few pundits/journos I pay any attention to, and it's cocks like these who give me my reason.:mad:

Nugget didnt have a great game by his standards, but was still the best back rower in red. Shaw was not great. As far as scrummaging goes AJ was the better of the two yesterday and Sheridan was a penalty waiting to happen.
 
I've recently come back from 2 months in Cape Town

While I was out there, I was convinced that we would win the series 3-0. The rugby I was seeing in South Africa was poor, they were worried about not having a decent place kicker and all of their 'big names' were under performing.

Since I've come back, I have a feeling it could well be 3-0 in the other direction.
The losses of Flannery, Quinlan and O'Leary are huge.

I would take yesterday's game with a pinch of salt, Earls was overcome by nerves. He'll get over it.
We got off to a slow start, but we came back won the game.

The real matches will have an added intensity, at the moment while of course we want to win every game, this is still a warm up.
I'm slightly worried about the number of 'knocks' that are being reported though.

In Geech we trust.
 
One thing to add from all the weekends rugby, lions & eng/ba bas is that it was really good to see rolling mauls or in fact just mauls full stop, back in the game!

:cool:
 
Tell you one thing that became very, very clear from today's game: the Lions are missing and will continue to miss the presence of Shanklin and Henson on this tour. They will prove to be costly injuries, IMO. I think you were right a few weeks ago when you said that D'Arcey should go out to replace Shanks. We need an old head in that centre pairing, and BOD aside, there just ain't one.

The centre partnership is worrying, they were short going out there, BOD is injured and Earls is already inked in for the midweek team for the rest of the tour! Roberts did himself a lot of favors, but the door is open for Hooky or Wellies to get a game in the centre I would think, the absence of Gav is looking like an even bigger loss than originally thought.

I think sometimes that you are me in another dimension!!:D

I think POC has to up his game big time because on yesterdays performance I dont think he is going to be worthy of a place in the test team.
 
Since I've come back, I have a feeling it could well be 3-0 in the other direction.
The losses of Flannery, Quinlan and O'Leary are huge.

So losing two players who would never have had a sniff of a test side is 'huge'? I would say that Quinlan's ban has opened the way for a far, far better player - Croft - to go out to SA. Had Geech chosen Peel rather than that nincompoop Blair, I'd have said the same again. It's not dirttrackers' absences that we need worry about, it's first teamers - Matt Stevens, Henson, Flannery et al
 
I think sometimes that you are me in another dimension!!:D

I think POC has to up his game big time because on yesterdays performance I dont think he is going to be worthy of a place in the test team.

Bloody hell!:eek:

If POC doesn't stand tall, then we have absolutely no chance. None. He needs to be as talismanic as Johnno was all those years ago. Against Matfield and Botha only a gilt edged series of performances will suffice.
 
Bloody hell!:eek:

If POC doesn't stand tall, then we have absolutely no chance. None. He needs to be as talismanic as Johnno was all those years ago. Against Matfield and Botha only a gilt edged series of performances will suffice.

Agree with what you say, but do you agree that on yesterdays showing he wasnt good enough as a lock or as a captain?

Is there a plan B?
 
So losing two players who would never have had a sniff of a test side is 'huge'? I would say that Quinlan's ban has opened the way for a far, far better player - Croft - to go out to SA.

of course this is pure speculation
but who would deliberately pick a dirt tracker?
TOL is a grandslam winning, HC winner and had every chance of starting as he is part of an extremely sucessful half back pairing for club and country- exactly the sort of success the lions are looking for

Quinlan is also a HC winner, and specialises in being a gritty bastard who always plays on the fringes of the law

personally, i reckon its players like that you'd want in the face of the springboks

earls is a good player who shouldnt be judged on this one game
of course when you get these players together it takes a while for them to gel and start performing

lies damned lies and statistics:

up against the wall, well behind with the prospect of losing the inaugural match these players put 14 points on the clock in 12 minutes, despite being a rusty mis-firing outfit

thats their class showing through
a bit more acclimatisation, practice and time and we'll have an exceptional team fully capable of humbling the springboks

have faith
 
Agree with what you say, but do you agree that on yesterdays showing he wasnt good enough as a lock or as a captain?

He carried like a titan but frequently got himself isolated and turned over. Unfortunately, he was suffering from having dross like Sheridan, Rees and Shaw in the engine room with him, and from having a backrow that had collectively decided it would rather wash its hair rather than contest breakdowns and give support. He was headless - guilty of trying too hard and attempting to carry the team, or at least the forwards, solo. I don't think he'll have the same problem with AWJ alongside him, Gethin at 1, Mears at 2, and a properly balanced backrow - Croft, Heaslip, Wallace/Williams. He didn't play intelligently and failed to show the degree of leadership required, but we can forgive him that and hope it was down to the occasion.

Is there a plan B?

Well, if Gatland and Edwards' coaching of Wales in the last 6n is anything to go by, or indeed Geech's less than favourable influence on a rapidly deflating Wasps this season, probably not:(
 
Newly bedazzled by a sky sports subscription I watched the Lions game followed by the Bulls/Chiefs and it really wasn't pretty for the Lions. If that team had played the Bulls yesterday they would have lost by a 100. Dirt trackers or not these guys are all supposed to be internationals, Matfield Botha and Spies were simply on another planet skill and intensity wise to anything we have in the NH.

Byrne was the only player that even came close to a decent performance. O'Gara and Blair were simply awful. The Royal XV weren't even S14 standard could be a long painful tour ahead.
 
of course this is pure speculation
but who would deliberately pick a dirt tracker?

Do you really, really reckon that the likes of Shaw, Worsley and Matthew Rees were picked to do anything other than play midweek?

TOL is a grandslam winning, HC winner and had every chance of starting as he is part of an extremely sucessful half back pairing for club and country- exactly the sort of success the lions are looking for

TOL had very little chance of starting a test for the Lions. Phillips was always nailed on for that role. He's young and his chance will come, but I wouldn't say he set the world alight during the 6N this year, tbh.

Quinlan is also a HC winner, and specialises in being a gritty bastard who always plays on the fringes of the law

Quinlan is a dirty bastard who is perfect to soak up the pain that the midweek games were going to dole out, allowing the first choice in that position to rest and stay injury free. Do you genuinely reckon a man who is a fringe player for his country was likely to start for the Lions? As I say, Croft is a far, far better player.

personally, i reckon its players like that you'd want in the face of the baby eating, midweek side, high-veldt beef gorgers who want to break British and Irish bones so they can boast about it in flyblown bars in windswept farming communities in their dotage

Fixed for you;)

earls is a good player who shouldnt be judged on this one game
of course when you get these players together it takes a while for them to gel and start performing

Sorry RF, but yer green sunnies are sitting a bit too high on the bridge of your nose. What else can he be judged on on this tour? Earls was utterly, irridemably shithouse on Saturday. Garbage. He will have lost the confidence not only of his fellow players and coaches, but also his good self. Like TOL he's one for the future, but the Bokke test side will eat him alive, and for that reason, barring injury he is very unlikely to get near a test XXII

lies damned lies and statistics:

up against the wall, well behind with the prospect of losing the inaugural match these players put 14 points on the clock in 12 minutes, despite being a rusty mis-firing outfit

Against a third tier side - that's equivalent to the tier below the ML - made up of journeymen and kids, most of whom have never played representative rugby. Don't forget that the Royal XV were also a scratch side, but one that was lightyears shitter than the Lions.

thats their class showing through

No, that's Byrne's class showing through. He won that game singlehandedly.

a bit more acclimatisation, practice and time and we'll have an exceptional team fully capable of humbling the springboks

have faith

Good god! What are you on, and how do I get hold of it? Just pm me the details if you'd be so kind;):p:cool:
 
XXII for Wednesday announced:

15. Rob Kearney (Leinster/Ireland)
14. Tommy Bowe (Ospreys/Ireland)
13. Brian O’Driscoll (Leinster/Ireland)
12. Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
11. Ugo Monye (Harlequins/England)
10. Stephen Jones (Scarlets/Wales)
9. Mike Phillips (Ospreys/Wales)

8. Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
7. David Wallace (Munster/Ireland)
6. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers/England)
5. Alun-Wyn Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
4. Nathan Hines (Perpignan/Scotland)
3. Phil Vickery (London Wasps/England)
2. Lee Mears (Bath/England)
1. Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues/Wales)

Replacements

16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh/Scotland)
17. Euan Murray (Northampton Saints/Scotland)
18. Stephen Ferris (Ulster/Ireland)
19. Andy Powell (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
20. Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers/England)
21. James Hook (Ospreys/Wales)
22. Shane Williams (Ospreys/Wales)

That's very strong. Some of the combinations will, IMO, be the ones starting against the Bokke, notably Phillips/Jones, Roberts/O'Stampy and Croft/Heaslip/Wallace. Swap Hines for POC, Vickery for Murray, and Kearney for Byrne and you've got your strongest XV. I think the wing place is still open and up for grabs. Could well see Kearney getting it ahead of Shane and Monye if he shows up well. I reckon that the Lions intent to bang it up the middle using Roberts offloading to BOD, rather than the extra guile but weaker defence of Flutey is showing through very clearly in this selection.
 
Quick question. The games against the G Lions, Cheetahs, Sharks & WP. Is it the Super14 teams or just the Currie Cup Provincial teams.
 
Cant find anything to confirm one way or another but going by the team names it looks more Currie Cup though. Obviously most will be without those picked in the Boks 28.

South Africa squad:

Backs: J de Villiers (Stormers), F du Preez (Bulls), J Fourie (Lions), B Habana (Bulls), A Jacobs (Sharks), E Januarie (Stormers), O Ndungane (Sharks), J Nokwe (Cheetahs), W Olivier (Bulls), R Pienaar (Sharks), JP Pietersen (Sharks), E Rose (Lions), F Steyn (Sharks), M Steyn (Bulls).

Forwards: J Smit (Sharks), V Matfield (Bulls), A Bekker (Stormers), B Botha (Bulls), S Burger (Stormers), D Carstens (Sharks), B du Plessis (Sharks), R Kankowski (Sharks), T Mtawarira (Sharks), C Ralepelle (Bulls), D Rossouw (Bulls), J Smith (Cheetahs), P Spies (Bulls), G Steenkamp (Bulls).
 
Kearney plays well tonight and he starts on the wing instead of Williams. I like the idea of 2 full backs playing in the tests.

SA will kick a lot and Byrne and Kearney running back at them could cause SA big problems. Even more so now that mauls are allowed again.
 
Reckon you're right. Shane's fall from form has been almost as spectacular as that of Ryan Jones. Bit worrying considering they've been two of Wales' most potent players in recent seasons. That said, I don't reckon Kearney was all that much during the 6N. I don't doubt his undisputed talent, but save for his showing in the SH last year he's yet to demonstrate it at the highest (international) level, IMO.
 
That said, I don't reckon Kearney was all that much during the 6N. I don't doubt his undisputed talent, but save for his showing in the SH last year he's yet to demonstrate it at the highest (international) level, IMO.

I see what you mean but his counter attack running was the best part of his play and with Byrne running along side (or vice versa) and Wallace/Williams and Heaslip to help them out and start a maul for Jenkins/Jones/POC to drive on? It's making me drool.

He's been ill though (with mumps or something nasty like that) and hasn't played for a while so he could be a bit rusty.
 
D'Arcy called up. Geech took the advice bendeus gave him.

This and other things have led me to believe Northern Hemisphere coaches have been getting their coaching tips from this forum. This proves it.

<waves> Hi Deccie, Shaun, Warren, Geecherimo</waves>
 
I see what you mean but his counter attack running was the best part of his play and with Byrne running along side (or vice versa) and Wallace/Williams and Heaslip to help them out and start a maul for Jenkins/Jones/POC to drive on? It's making me drool.

He's been ill though (with mumps or something nasty like that) and hasn't played for a while so he could be a bit rusty.

I think we will certainly need the gamebreakers and link men to open the Bokke up. Don't feel we can play them at their own game - they're just too powerful and athletic. Put simply, they have more grunt than us. This is why I would still go with Williams over Wallace, as the footballing nous and skills he brings to the occasion can create the space needed for the backs. Reckon that Geech doesn't agree with me, mind.

TBH I'd be happy with Kearney on the wing, but can't help but feel that Shane still has something to offer. I reckon he just needs to click and regain that mindset he had in '08. Sad fact is that he's unlikely to feature unless he starts a test, as he can't cover other positions in the way that Bowe, Kearney, et al can
 
D'Arcy called up. Geech took the advice bendeus gave him.

This and other things have led me to believe Northern Hemisphere coaches have been getting their coaching tips from this forum. This proves it.

<waves> Hi Deccie, Shaun, Warren, Geecherimo</waves>

Stands to reason, doesn't it. Gives the boy a chance to redeem himself after claiming he was 'too tired' to play the third test in NZ. He'll be needed.
 
Well, well. Rushed home from work for the kick off and am well pleased (so far).

Bowe's speed of mind and body has been hugely impressive. Also Kearney, BOD, Roberts, Philips, Croft and the two props looking very good.

I had read a bit on here about the contenders for loosehead and not really thought there was much between Sheridan and Jenkins. Having watched on saturday and now today its blindingly obvious.
 
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