British and Irish Lions
- Thread starter mattie
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bendeus
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BTW, nobody seems to have made any comment about Phillips' contribution on Saturday. Thought he had an excellent game - kept the Bokke honest around the fringes, delivered accurate - if slow - ball to his backline, and kicked well out of hand when needed. Took his try well and was a hair's breadth away from another. At the moment he's the only s/h putting his hand up, though doubtless the Gollum Appreciation Society will come lurching along to explain that having the ability to stamp on exposed elbows and knees at the base of a ruck is essential to the Lions winning the second test.
On another note. Monye=gash. He was exposed at this level. A better winger, and yes, by that I mean Shane (or Fitzgerald) would have taken at least one if not both of those chances.
On another note. Monye=gash. He was exposed at this level. A better winger, and yes, by that I mean Shane (or Fitzgerald) would have taken at least one if not both of those chances.
bendeus
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Red Faction
Allez Les Rouges
South Africa coach Peter de Villiers has gone for a five-two forward split in his replacements, with versatile fly-half Ruan Pienaar acting as cover for Fourie du Preez at scrum-half.
this is interesting
what are they playing at?
this is interesting
what are they playing at?
Threshers_Flail
Well-Known Member
Weren't they all Welsh at Rorke's Drift?
I think you're right. I was just joining in with the negativeness.
travellerlife
Well-Known Member
No one seems to know and that includes the bok supporters, players and probably the coach himself
porno moustache de Villiers is a complete odd ball, some of his quotes this tour have been great, if not pointing to a potential mental defect.I think he's secret weapon is to make complete random statements and odd choices, so the opposition never know what he is going to do. You probably find neither do his players. He is just lucky to have a experienced squad and captain who can temper his eccentricity.
travellerlife
Well-Known Member
Talking of which I was staggered to see lions fans at the game dressed up in military/colonial boer war costumes, I mean wtf, how can they think that's not going to offend anyone.
Its like germans going to a footie game against Poland dressed as members of the SS
I was a bit miffed seeing that. But then again rugby supporters tend to be a little more forgiving in that respect.
Kwazulu/Natal is known in SA as the last outpost of the empire, so I guess it is in keeping with the heritage
DaRealSpoon
Do not try and bend the spoon...
Phillips = Yeh he played well, but he IS slow to get the ball out and far too many times on Saturday he went blindside when there was fuck all on! Without even looking, did he not notice how when it ran the line we tore through them. Had me shouting at him to stop taking the blindside anyway
Monye wasn't great but I think it's easy to say 'Oh so and so would have finished those chances off for sure'. Bollocks, you have no idea whether they would have done or not. One of them he was unlucky, the other, yeh perhaps he should have kept the ball out of harms way. He's quicker IMO than SW, so no advantage their aand perhaps the smaller wingers would have been bounced/fended off even easier.
Having said that, I think he'll get dropped to the bench at least for the next test, and rightly so. Unless SW has a stormer on tues, I'd go with Fitzgerald though.
I've been meaning to say, that if the change round at 2nd row happens it looks likely AWJ will be the one to lose out. Harsh IMO, he's had a better tour on the whole than POC. An I'm probably wrong but I didn't think he was that bad on saturday...
Red Faction
Allez Les Rouges
yeah well, you cant drop the captain...
It's silly, but I guess that's why your Captain should be world class; and that's why it was a poor choice. Although the Lions probably only have one or two genuine world class players, to be fair, and none in the pack.yeah well, you cant drop the captain...
bendeus
Bellend Tagline Generator
He ties in defenders around the ruck, creating more spaces for his centres (if the non-purple faced outside half is picked so as to be able to pass to them)
far too many times on Saturday he went blindside when there was fuck all on! Without even looking, did he not notice how when it ran the line we tore through them. Had me shouting at him to stop taking the blindside anyway
You're obviously unaware of the tactics of pulling the entire game to the blindside in order to stretch the defence, get the fatties running to-and-fro, and pulling the backrowers over to one side of the field. The tactics that Gatland and Edwards have been employing with Wales for the last two seasons, and are now repeating with the Lions. Blame the coaches for constantly boshing up the blindside, not Spikey Mikey.
On the evidence of the tour so far, Monye is good at running in tries created for him by others provided he has a straight line in which to do so. His defense is gash and his positioning naive. He was bad in one-on-ones, failed to beat his man repeatedly, and was caught in possession due to his own indecision. He's a poor man's Paul Sackey. Shane or Fitzgerald would have scored with the second opportunity - both are adept at beating their man on the outside, which is all Ugo had to do. That he didn't showed up his unsuitability for rugby at this level. There's no shame in that, but he shouldn't even be a bench option on Saturday.
.
Sections of the press are busily attempting to blame AWJ for Vickery's beasting in the scrum. Funny that it was POC behind Vickery, not AWJ.
DaRealSpoon
Do not try and bend the spoon...
Harsh, I reckon the two candidates are M Williams and Vickery (dare I say it)
Vicks yes is past his best, but he's a world cup winner and has won numerous other trophies and he's been around a long time 80+ international caps etc. He was cack on saturday but he is/was a world class prop.
And williams, well, world class too IMO.
Vicks yes is past his best, but he's a world cup winner and has won numerous other trophies and he's been around a long time 80+ international caps etc. He was cack on saturday but he is/was a world class prop.
And williams, well, world class too IMO.
They've definitely been world class, but I question whether they would be right now...Harsh, I reckon the two candidates are M Williams and Vickery (dare I say it)
Vicks yes is past his best, but he's a world cup winner and has won numerous other trophies and he's been around a long time 80+ international caps etc. He was cack on saturday but he is/was a world class prop.
And williams, well, world class too IMO.
bendeus
Bellend Tagline Generator
They need Martyn on Saturday. I'd put Croft on the bench, Wallace to six and Martyn to seven. The former, while his support play should be lauded, was absent at the breakdown and was part of the reason the backrow was so unbalanced. That team needs Williams to get to the breakdown, to link play and to disrupt the opposition.
DaRealSpoon
Do not try and bend the spoon...
Well been as I played scrum half for over ten years I think I'm fully aware of the tactics involved in that position.. so nerr
Yes drawing to the blind and stretching the defense - fine. But it was once too often is my point, and with no real thought. He just didn't look around on several occasions, perhaps thats a coaching preferance but in my view, you make your own mind up once your on the pitch... Not a coach.
Monye = Yep, thats the one he was at fault for, he should have taken his man on the outside. I don't think that is down to talent though, cause he could have quite easily, thats down to experience and nerves. Monye will get better, but at the moment we are crying out for either an in sorm SW or like you say, perhaps a Sackey.
Dare I say, Banahan against the Boks would be interesting. Same height/weight as Botha, and I reckon he wouldn't shy away from giving him a slap
Thats typical press bollocks though isn't it. Maybe somehow, from the other side of the scrum he hampered Vickerys scrummaging... hmm
I like AWJ, he's got more passion than POC right now. I hope he's on the bench if they do drop him.
DaRealSpoon
Do not try and bend the spoon...
You mean Croft?? Watch that game again and you'll see Croft was almost always one of the first 2 players at the breakdown.
Apologies if you meant Wallace
bendeus
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I know that's what the press are saying. The press are also saying that AWJ was at fault for Vickery's capitulation. The same press have also been suggesting that Shaw starts instead of POC and that Sheridan does the same instead of Jenkins.
See what I did there?
Croft is a great player; a fantastic support runner, a titan in the loose. I'm not sure he's a six though; you know, the kind of grafting, battling, dog on the deck that we need. For all his being in the right place at the right time, I feel Croft, like Heaslip, was found wanting where he was needed on Saturday. Doubtless he'll start again on Saturday, but I think he was part of a unit (the backrow) that collectively failed on the big day. The other failing unit - the front three - was sorted on the pitch, and ended up stronger than their opponents. The back three wasn't, IMO
bendeus
Bellend Tagline Generator
If you recall my rantings about Wales' failure in the 6n, you might remember my consternation at our failing to vary our tactics - our lack of adaptability.
We went blind like automata over the course of the five matches. Time and time again like we dared not do otherwise. We also kicked long infield from around our own 22, and used a big, barrelling 12 to take it up the guts and look for the offload to the 8 or 13.
Just like the Lions, non? Like I say, you can't blame Phillips for going blind. That's what he's been told to do, so that's what he does.
DaRealSpoon
Do not try and bend the spoon...
I know that's what the press are saying. The press are also saying that AWJ was at fault for Vickery's capitulation. The same press have also been suggesting that Shaw starts instead of POC and that Sheridan does the same instead of Jenkins.
See what I did there?
Croft is a great player; a fantastic support runner, a titan in the loose. I'm not sure he's a six though; you know, the kind of grafting, battling, dog on the deck that we need. For all his being in the right place at the right time, I feel Croft, like Heaslip, was found wanting where he was needed on Saturday. Doubtless he'll start again on Saturday, but I think he was part of a unit (the backrow) that collectively failed on the big day. The other failing unit - the front three - was sorted on the pitch, and ended up stronger than their opponents. The back three wasn't, IMO
Nah, thats what I'm saying based on two watches of the game. The only press I take any notice of is player/coach interviews, and not much interest at that!!
Yeh, theres definately some balance needed to Crofts abilities it has to be M Williams.
DaRealSpoon
Do not try and bend the spoon...
I do remember and I agree. However, I stand by my point that Phillips CAN be blamed (at least partly), he is the one with the ball at his feet, he makes the call. Initiative, no great player is without it
Mr Retro
Beware hedgehogs
Ya, but you'd play him in both centre positions and that would leave us with only 14 on the pitch. That just wouldn't work!
Surely you saw my Stringer comment as the joke it was intended to be?
I think O'Gara would have kept the ball in hand and the backs would have been as much of a danger BUT his kicking would have been better. We'll never know now though.
100% agree. I think Williams and Fitzgerald would have finished off both without even the need for a trip upstairs. He has to go for next week. You can't get over the line twice and not score once
bendeus
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He would probably have made a better 8 than Heaslip on the weekend as well
I take all comments about Stringer as a joke. All
Aw bless, your Onan love (Onanism?) surpasses e'en the mighty bounds of my manlove for Henson. It is truly magnificent in its monocularity
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
yeah well, you cant drop the captain...
yes you fucking can if he's shit. AWJ will miss out on staurday and that is a travesty, better palyer in the 1st test that POC who has done nothing, I repeat nothing to justify his selection as skipper. Should have been BOD, as much as I hate the dirty cunt, atleast he is a captain.
starfish
No dialogue. Just plot.
Shame the game was played in torrentious (thanks Dewi) conditions, so no one really got a chance to shine. Thought the Young Boks deserved the draw, they were the better team in the 2nd half. Thought it was funny when Hines went to take on their 7 & 8.
& to answer an earlier question, no they werent all Welsh at Rorkes Drift & that was only a small part of the Anglo-Zulu War anyway.
& to answer an earlier question, no they werent all Welsh at Rorkes Drift & that was only a small part of the Anglo-Zulu War anyway.
Red Faction
Allez Les Rouges
keith earls
great player
surely done enough to warrant a place on the bench at the very least
hows byrne's foot looking?
great player
surely done enough to warrant a place on the bench at the very least
hows byrne's foot looking?
bendeus
Bellend Tagline Generator
What? Dropping at least four high balls, thus putting pressure on his own defence, and being found woefully out of position for the Emerging Bok's try?
Absolutely awesome.
bendeus
Bellend Tagline Generator
Thought Hines and DOC put it about a bit last night. Impressive stuff. Can see one of them starting on Saturday with AWJ, perhaps unfairly, relegated to the bench as punishment for his poor scrummaging behind Vickery.
DaRealSpoon: For an object lesson in glacial scrum half delivery, look no further than Harry Ellis last night. Fucking woeful. It wasn't so much that he was doing the Phillips shuffle when passing the ball out, but that he stood and looked at it for at least a minute at the base of each ruck, perhaps trying to work out whether it was, indeed, a ball, and whether it was his responsibility to do something with it. I was particularly impressed with the move where he dived to pass the ball out of the back of a ruck, and forgot the ball; knocking it on in the process.
Juice Terry: Did you see Hook at 10 last night? Hope that puts to rest your calls for him to start on Saturday. Wasteful passing and kicking again shows how far he has to go in terms of learning game management - something that Wellies is very, very good at.
Mr. Retro: Any comment on Onan's shite performance last night? Particularly enjoyed his 'tackle' on their seven. Most amusing. Once again failed to get his line moving in any meaningful way. But what we want is a 10 whose first instinct is to kick for territory against the best attacking lineout in the world, right?
Geech and Gats: Looks like you have no intention of starting Martyn for the second test. Why the fuck's that, then? I'm at a loss to understand why the finest NH openside of his generation is still waiting for his first Lions 1st XV start. You obviously have no intention of changing that. Smacks of weakness to me - alongside the locks he was the best player on the pitch for us. Also, why do you keep starting Shane at 14 outside Onan when you know full well he'll never see the bloody ball unless it's speculative cross-kicks, which don't generally work if you're 4 foot 8. If you want him to prove himself, surely you should give him a go at 11 - his natural position.
DaRealSpoon: For an object lesson in glacial scrum half delivery, look no further than Harry Ellis last night. Fucking woeful. It wasn't so much that he was doing the Phillips shuffle when passing the ball out, but that he stood and looked at it for at least a minute at the base of each ruck, perhaps trying to work out whether it was, indeed, a ball, and whether it was his responsibility to do something with it. I was particularly impressed with the move where he dived to pass the ball out of the back of a ruck, and forgot the ball; knocking it on in the process.
Juice Terry: Did you see Hook at 10 last night? Hope that puts to rest your calls for him to start on Saturday. Wasteful passing and kicking again shows how far he has to go in terms of learning game management - something that Wellies is very, very good at.
Mr. Retro: Any comment on Onan's shite performance last night? Particularly enjoyed his 'tackle' on their seven. Most amusing. Once again failed to get his line moving in any meaningful way. But what we want is a 10 whose first instinct is to kick for territory against the best attacking lineout in the world, right?
Geech and Gats: Looks like you have no intention of starting Martyn for the second test. Why the fuck's that, then? I'm at a loss to understand why the finest NH openside of his generation is still waiting for his first Lions 1st XV start. You obviously have no intention of changing that. Smacks of weakness to me - alongside the locks he was the best player on the pitch for us. Also, why do you keep starting Shane at 14 outside Onan when you know full well he'll never see the bloody ball unless it's speculative cross-kicks, which don't generally work if you're 4 foot 8. If you want him to prove himself, surely you should give him a go at 11 - his natural position.
DaRealSpoon
Do not try and bend the spoon...
Didn't need the lesson Ben, already fully aware of Ellis's shortcomings. When he's not playing well, he's always had a habit of twatting around at the back of the ruck. He seems to think he's 'encouraging' the forwrds, perhaps waiting for them to do more... It 's bloody obvious when it isn't going anywhere though. Maybe he's spent to long playing with a forward orientated Leicester, dunno. He did make some howling errors last night, but he also had a few good moments. Just like Earls, who went from shockingly bad to moments of class.
Agreed, DOC & Hines played well. Shaw for the time he was on the pitch was brilliant, didn't put foot wrong really. Seemed to do a much better job of disrupting their line-out too... Him against Botha et al???
Tough between the three of them but DOC will prob get the nod.
I thought O'Gara played alright last night actually, not enough to start on Saturday, but a good showing in bad conditions.
M Williams, he seemed less effective than his last outing, but still should at least be on the bloody bench for Saturday!!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article6569560.ece
Hines is banned for Saturday. That's a pity. Did anyone see the tackle?
Hines is banned for Saturday. That's a pity. Did anyone see the tackle?
