British and Irish Lions

[1927]

Who, the Beast was standing up or Vickery. I've had another look and I really reckon Vicks was was a tad unlucky with alot of those calls, still should have played better but whatever.

I think the the resurgence in the pack had fuck all to do with it being 'all welsh' and more to do with the general feeling around the pitch that they were coming back into the game aaand that SA started to lose the plot, Smits departure etc.



Thats an interesting point, it was noted early on that outside of the first 15 we looked a little light... Dunno, I have a feeling there won't be drastic changes for the next test.

Agree, the resurgence was nothing to do with FR being all Welsh, it was just the introduction of two better players, they just happened to be Welsh!

This Lions squad has been hit by injuries and withdrawals, but I dont actually think it has weakened the squad necessarily, in fact the inroduction of Croft almost certainly improved it. Other absentees like Shanklin and Gav(I know he wasnt selected but may have been if he was fit) wouldnt have made any difference on yesterdays showing. I think maybe its just a poor 4 year cycle and the pool wasnt quite up to it this time!

Watched the Lions tour from 1997 yesterday on Youtube and theres a very interesting quote from Guscott, I think. He said that in the dressing room before the tests the players looked at Martin Johnson and knew he wouldnt allow them to lose!! I think he meant that ijn 2 ways, he wouldnt permit them to and he would do everything he could to prevent it. Thats what we need in a captain.

 

[slaar]

I also don't think we're aggressive enough in the tackle. Instead there was frustrated slaps afterwards which do nobody any favours and give away penalties; a much lesser form of physical response. We could have done early on with a couple of Lewsey-on-Rogers style bruisings:



"He's a pretty tough character, Matt Rogers, he'll get up". I understand he could never properly body-surf after that because it bent his ribs. But an absolutely legitimate tackle.

 

[Mr Retro]

Who, the Beast was standing up or Vickery. I've had another look and I really reckon Vicks was was a tad unlucky with alot of those calls, still should have played better but whatever.

The beast was standing up and not trying to srumage at all really. It's not like he was getting under vickerys chest and lifting him.

 

[Mr Retro]

Wellies was pretty poor by his standards, but those calling for ROG should look at the stats for his starts. If you want the ball to get beyond the 10 shirt then ROG is fucking pointless, he would have nullified our centre pairing.

Brian O'Driscoll has scored over 20 tries in the 6 nations with O'Gara inside him.

 

[remedial_gash]

Brian O'Driscoll has scored over 20 tries in the 6 nations with O'Gara inside him.

Yes, but Gareth Thomas has scored double that with wellies, jinx and oh fuck it's Arwel Thomas inside him - but is GT a better player?

Fuck no.

ROG is a limited player that cannot unleash backs. With a decent 9/10 combo Ireland would have more than one GS in their ENTIRE HISTORY... perhaps 3 this decade.

Gash
x

 

[starfish]

I think the ref got it right with scrums, even Rowntree had no complaints. They spoke to the ref the night before about the scrums because they thought they would be the dominant side.
Can see a few changes for next week.

 

[remedial_gash]

I think the ref got it right with scrums, even Rowntree had no complaints. They spoke to the ref the night before about the scrums because they thought they would be the dominant side.
Can see a few changes for next week.

There were definitely a few towards the end of the first half where 'the beast' just dropped to his knees, but the ref - and most of them know nothing about the scrum - immediately punished vickery, as one would expect.

He was done for in the first 20, after that he had no way back.

Gash
x

 

[Mr Retro]

Yes, but Gareth Thomas has scored double that with wellies, jinx and oh fuck it's Arwel Thomas inside him - but is GT a better player?

Fuck no.

ROG is a limited player that cannot unleash backs. With a decent 9/10 combo Ireland would have more than one GS in their ENTIRE HISTORY... perhaps 3 this decade.

Gash
x

Ireland have won more than 1 grand slam in their entire history. They've won 2.

I agree O'Gara has his limitations but he's a better option than Jones next week, who for the 4th best out half in the world tm bendeus cannot kick the ball from hand (or, more recently, from the ground).

 

[Juice Terry]

The fly half selection is a real nightmare.

They either go for one who can kick but can't pass, or one who can pass but can't kick.

SJ 4th best in the world There's probably 4 kiwis alone better than him, Carter, Evans, McAllister, Donald. Then you've got Giteau, Barnes, Hernandez, Piennar, Morne Steyn, Tran Duc, Skrela.....

Oh just seen O'Gara is captain tomorrow night so they'll be sticking with Jones on saturday.

 

[slaar]

The fly half selection is a real nightmare.

They either go for one who can kick but can't pass, or one who can pass but can't kick.

SJ 4th best in the world There's probably 4 kiwis alone better than him, Carter, Evans, McAllister, Donald. Then you've got Giteau, Barnes, Hernandez, Piennar, Morne Steyn, Tran Duc, Skrela.....

Oh just seen O'Gara is captain tomorrow night so they'll be sticking with Jones on saturday.

O'Gara first half to play the boks at their own kicking game, then Jones to open it up second half?

 

[Juice Terry]

O'Gara first half to play the boks at their own kicking game, then Jones to open it up second half?

Its at altitude, hard dry pitch, you just can't play O'Gara's positional kicking game in those conditions, one kick from Steyn and you're back in your own 22. Jones' passing game is ok but he has no pace.

Go for broke I say, pick Hook, if his injury is ok. With him running at the boks as well as Roberts, BOD and Bowe we could score 4 or 5 tries. His place kicking is up to scratch too.

 

[slaar]

Hook's fit, and on the bench tomorrow. And Byrne might still be alright too.

Better news.

Side for tomorrow:

Lions team to play the Emerging Springboks:

Backs: K Earls (Munster and Ireland); S Williams (Ospreys/Wales), R Flutey (Wasps/England), G D'Arcy (Leinster/Ireland), L Fitzgerald (Leinster/ Ireland); R O'Gara (Munster/Ireland, capt), H Ellis (Leicester/England)

Forwards: T Payne (Wasps/England), R Ford (Edinburgh/Scotland), J Hayes (Munster/Ireland), D O'Callaghan (Munster/ Ireland), N Hines (Perpignan/Scotland), J Worsley (Wasps/England), M Williams (Cardiff Blues/Wales), A Powell (Cardiff Blues/Wales).

Replacements: L Mears (Bath/England), P Vickery (Wasps/England), S Shaw (Wasps/England), D Wallace (Munster/Ireland), M Blair (Edinburgh/Scotland), J Hook (Ospreys/Wales), U Monye (Harlequins/England).

 

[Andy the Don]

I see that Simon Shaw is on the bench for tomorrows match against teh Emerging Boks. Anyone else here think that Shaw could be starting on Saturday in the second test in the second row to partner POC..?? I would also like to see Andy Powell at No.8 with Nathan Hines as Wing forward with Tom Croft. Get a bit more bulk in the pack.

 

[Mr Retro]

I see that Simon Shaw is on the bench for tomorrows match against teh Emerging Boks. Anyone else here think that Shaw could be starting on Saturday in the second test in the second row to partner POC..?? I would also like to see Andy Powell at No.8 with Nathan Hines as Wing forward with Tom Croft. Get a bit more bulk in the pack.

Hines is no wing forward so it would be going too far the other way to pick him in the back row in my view. I think the rest of your predictions might not be far off.

I'd put Powell in at 8 and Shaw in the second row too. I thought Heaslip did nothing on Saturday. Though it was hard for him to do much in a pack getting hammered you want some contribution. O'Connell and AWJ were as shit as each other so Paul keeps his place because he's captain.

That with an all Welsh Fron Row is not a bad pack.

I do think the Lions will be beaten though. SA put their bench on too early (and arrogantly). That won't happen again.

 

[Mr Retro]

I see that Simon Shaw is on the bench for tomorrows match against teh Emerging Boks. Anyone else here think that Shaw could be starting on Saturday in the second test in the second row to partner POC..?? I would also like to see Andy Powell at No.8 with Nathan Hines as Wing forward with Tom Croft. Get a bit more bulk in the pack.

Hines is no wing forward so it would be going too far the other way to pick him in the back row in my view. I think the rest of your predictions might not be far off.

I'd put Powell in at 8 and Shaw in the second row too. I thought Heaslip did nothing on Saturday. Though it was hard for him to do much in a pack getting hammered you want some contribution. O'Connell and AWJ were as shit as each other so Paul keeps his place because he's captain.

That with an all Welsh Front Row is not a bad pack.

I do think the Lions will be beaten though. SA put their bench on too early (and arrogantly) allowing The Lions to come back. That won't happen again.

 

[Andy the Don]

I do think the Lions will be beaten though. SA put their bench on too early (and arrogantly) allowing The Lions to come back. That won't happen again.

Not sure, the Lions backs, when they had the ball tore holes in the Boks and looked dangerous. Give our backs some decent set peice ball from a stable platform and they will score tries. Give us a decent referee who will dare to punish the Boks constant infringements and I think we will have good chance of getting a result. And please for the love of God someone give that Bakkies Botha a good slap..

 

[starfish]

And please for the love of God someone give that Bakkies Botha a good slap..

Only player capable of that is probably Hines who should at least be on the bench for the 2nd Test if all goes well tomorrow.

 

[1927]

Ireland have won more than 1 grand slam in their entire history. They've won 2.

Well, strictly speaking they have only won one. The term was not used in the home nations until 1957.
So there!

 

[mattie]

Glad to see we're all getting fully into the spirit of the Lions.

 

[bendeus]

Jones, the 4th best 10 in the world c bendeus is incapable of kicking the ball out of hand. Worst was when, at the death, we had a penalty and went for the corner and a lineout, he gained us about 10 yards and rather than a lineout from 5 yards we were throwing in on the 22. His kicking from the ground was shit too. O'Gara has to start the next match.

ROFL. Do you think that the coaching team have the tiniest modicum of trust in Onan's ability, given that they left Jones on for the 80? If he was that shite, he would have gone on 62, and the rosy cheeked foot on a pole could have failed to tackle anybody and kicked possession away every time he got it.

Didn't notice the speed and incisiveness with which Wellies got his backline moving, then, even with the telegraphed pass from Phillips?

No?

Sure as hell that Gats, Geech and Edwards did, though. I can only thank the fates that you're not coaching this Lions tour

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Glad to see we're all getting fully into the spirit of the Lions.

 

[Juice Terry]

Glad to see we're all getting fully into the spirit of the Lions.

Talking of which I was staggered to see lions fans at the game dressed up in military/colonial boer war costumes, I mean wtf, how can they think that's not going to offend anyone.

Its like germans going to a footie game against Poland dressed as members of the SS

 

[Threshers_Flail]

Talking of which I was staggered to see lions fans at the game dressed up in military/colonial boer war costumes, I mean wtf, how can they think that's not going to offend anyone.

Its like germans going to a footie game against Poland dressed as members of the SS

I remember thinking that, they must've been English, its a bit silly.

 

[The Boy]

Its like germans going to a footie game against Poland dressed as members of the SS

Or going to game in Ireland dressed as a Black and Tan.

 

[Red Faction]

Talking of which I was staggered to see lions fans at the game dressed up in military/colonial boer war costumes, I mean wtf, how can they think that's not going to offend anyone.

zulu is one of my all time favourite films

 

[slaar]

Talking of which I was staggered to see lions fans at the game dressed up in military/colonial boer war costumes, I mean wtf, how can they think that's not going to offend anyone.

I thought that was funny. It's long enough ago to fall into the realm of carry-on.

 

[Juice Terry]

I remember thinking that, they must've been English, its a bit silly.

Weren't they all Welsh at Rorke's Drift?

 

[Mr Retro]

Do you think that the coaching team have the tiniest modicum of trust in Onan's ability, given that they left Jones on for the 80?

Huge mistake in my opinion. The Lions were crying out for O'Garas kicking in that period. Jones simply can't kick from the hand. His kick for the corner at the death was an embarrassment.

I can only thank the fates that you're not coaching this Lions tour

Fuck Off - if you were coackhing it you'd have only Welsh players past and present. With Henson playing first and second centre even though he's injured.

Wellies gets the starting berth on Sat though after the team they have picked for today.

However it might be a good game to miss. The more I think of it the more I think we're going to get hammered.

 

[Andy the Don]

Only player capable of that is probably Hines who should at least be on the bench for the 2nd Test if all goes well tomorrow.

And that is the problem with the current Lions squad. If Bakkies had been around in 1997 they would have been queueing up to give him a slap; Johnson, Dally, Gibbs, Tait, Leonard etc all more than capable of acting as the enforcer. The current squad look as if they can be bullied by the Boks.

 

[bendeus]

Huge mistake in my opinion. The Lions were crying out for O'Garas kicking in that period. Jones simply can't kick from the hand.

You think that by kicking possession away we would have done any better than scoring the 12 points we did in the final quarter? There's me thinking we put the presssure on by keeping the ball in hand and working it out along the backline. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that absolutely pisspoor performances that Onan has put in so far on this tour. Accurate with the boot, doubtless, but his 18-14 pass to kick ratio in the weekend game, where he personally crucified about two possible tries and got run over in defence, will live long in the memory.

His kick for the corner at the death was an embarrassment.

Onan has missed a penalty kick to touch on this tour. It landed infield.

Fuck Off - if you were coackhing it you'd have only Welsh players past and present. With Henson playing first and second centre even though he's injured.

Not true at all. I was calling for the inclusion of the likes of Croft, O'Driscoll, POC, Flannery, Mears, Vickery, Bowe and Wallace right from the go. It's not me who has been burbling on about shoehorning also-rans such as Leamy, Stringer and Big John Hayes into the mix. I could have touted the inclusion of Dafydd Jones, Cooper and Rhys Thomas but felt that it would have made me look silly. And yes, if Henson was fit I would have him in the XXII in a second. Many would, though.