Bloody Sunday inquiry - coming soon

[spliff]

As I said, the Paras were fired on.

Disputed from day one and now discredited.
and there's the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six and them Maguire Seven's, all guilty as fuck
I know 'cos some bloke down the pub told me, and he should know, he's a journalist

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Sadly, justice delayed is justice denied. People will be asking "what can we do after 38 years?" Nothing to bring back the dead. but we can ask what people are being needlessly killed by British troops today. What investigations might never happen into deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan?

 

[treelover]

just watched 'Bloody Sunday' on again on ITV3, chilling, soldier F should be named imo and general ford have his medals taken off him though no chance of that!

 

[butchersapron]

Disputed from day one and now discredited.
]and there's the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six and them Maguire Seven's, all guilty as fuck
I know 'cos some bloke down the pub told me, and he should know, he's a journalist

Guess which judge chucked out the Birmingham 6's first appeal?

 

[butchersapron]

Hadn't seen that - got a link?

Heath denies 'browbeating' Widgery

Heath denies pressuring judge

Sir Edward Heath has denied pressuring the chairman of the original Bloody Sunday Inquiry into exonerating the British soldiers who carried out the killings.

The former Conservative prime minister said there had been nothing sinister in his warning to Lord Widgery that Britain was locked in a propaganda war, as well as a military war, in 1972.

He also said his mind was actually on other matters and until bloody sunday didn't even know there were paras in Derry despite his own Cabinet secretary
briefing him at length on this days before the events.


Heath warned over Bloody Sunday Paras

In his memo to the prime minister, Cabinet secretary Sir Burke Trend, the most senior civil servant, recommended Mr Heath review the activities of the Parachute Regiment which was being moved to Derry as part of the operation.

"You may wish to question the Secretary of State for Defence about recent suggestions in the press and on television that the army over-reacted against some of the civil rights demonstrations last weekend," wrote Sir Burke.

"And that, in particular, soldiers of the Parachute Regiment, by being unnecessarily rough, have gratuitously provoked resentment among peaceful elements of the Roman Catholic population."

 

[john paul]

Justice of sorts at last for the victims and their families. As for that gobsheen Sassy, haters gonna hate.

 

[butchersapron]

As well as being interested in Heath's cover up i'd like to see what they made of former head of the British Army General Sir Mike Jackson's manufacturing a 'shot list' in the hours after the shootings designed to paint a picture of the paras coming under nail and petrol bomb attack, a picture that the inquiry rejected as outright post-shooting fabrication.

 

[ViolentPanda]

On another point, I don't know if a Lt Col counts as a senior officer, but the enquiry is pretty damning about him. It wasn't just the squaddies.

Lt. Col is battalion commander rank, so yes, he does count as a "senior officer".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Guess which judge chucked out the Birmingham 6's first appeal?

The same marbleless cunt.

 

[treelover]

'The fact that they made that choice believing that Thatcher had even a grain of compassion, and that he wouldn't make political capital from their deaths was an error, mind you.'


however brave, I imagine the issue was very complex: I once spent a few hours with a Screw who had worked in the Maze( a graduate and former I/S Trot as it happens) at the time of the H/S and who was intimately involved with the case of Sands and co, he stated that the H/S came under massive pressure to continue the H/S's from the IRA and many of its supporters. he seemed very genuine and I have no reason to to think he was making it up.

 

[treelover]

'Bloody Sunday paratroopers defend commanding officer 'singled out for criticism' in long-awaited Saville Report'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-Ulster-died-Afghanistan.html#ixzz0r1VMScbS


DM on Wilford, still alive and prospering


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Soldiers-served-Ulster-died-Afghanistan.html

 

[john paul]

'The fact that they made that choice believing that Thatcher had even a grain of compassion, and that he wouldn't make political capital from their deaths was an error, mind you.'


however brave, I imagine the issue was very complex: I once spent a few hours with a Screw who had worked in the Maze( a graduate and former I/S Trot as it happens) at the time of the H/S and who was intimately involved with the case of Sands and co, he stated that the H/S came under massive pressure to continue the H/S's from the IRA and many of its supporters. he seemed very genuine and I have no reason to to think he was making it up.

There is a lot of truth in that. former H/S Richard O Rawe's book 'Blanketmen' exposes the kind of pressure the H/S were under from the outside leadership, indeed he claims that lives of many of the H/S would have been saved it if weren't for the IRA leadership playing hardball with the UK Gov.

 

[LiamO]

he stated that the H/S came under massive pressure to continue the H/S's from the IRA and many of its supporters.

Funnily enough I had a conversation with an actual Hunger-striker (Paddy Quinn - South Armagh) just last Saturday night and he was ABSOLUTELY INSISTENT that the HS was driven by the prisoners themselves - NOT by the outside, not by the IRA, not by Sinn Fein.

Some time ago I had a similar conversation with Laurence McKeown (Randalstown - 73 days on HS).

Both of these men state unequivocally that the Prisoners themselves - and the prisoners alone - decided on strategy, the duration and the ending of the HS.

 

[LiamO]

'The fact that they made that choice believing that Thatcher had even a grain of compassion, and that he wouldn't make political capital from their deaths was an error, mind you.'


however brave, I imagine the issue was very complex: I once spent a few hours with a Screw who had worked in the Maze( a graduate and former I/S Trot as it happens) at the time of the H/S and who was intimately involved with the case of Sands and co, he stated that the H/S came under massive pressure to continue the H/S's from the IRA and many of its supporters. he seemed very genuine and I have no reason to to think he was making it up.

So you see no reason why a Screw, who was a former Trotskyite political activist, might wish to engage in post-event rationalisation of his somewhat less than glorious role in the Hunger Strike saga?

What did you do in the war Daddy?

 

[LiamO]

There is a lot of truth in that. former H/S Richard O Rawe's book 'Blanketmen' exposes the kind of pressure the H/S were under from the outside leadership, indeed he claims that lives of many of the H/S would have been saved it if weren't for the IRA leadership playing hardball with the UK Gov.

the aforementioned Laurence Mc Keown delivered a withering response, in 'Daily Ireland', to O'Rawe's book at the time of it's publication.

If I can dig it out I will post it up. Or if I bump into him I will ask him for a copy

 

[past caring]

What did you do in the war Daddy?

A typical screw.

 

[john paul]

the aforementioned Laurence Mc Keown delivered a withering response, in 'Daily Ireland', to O'Rawe's book at the time of it's publication.

If I can dig it out I will post it up. Or if I bump into him I will ask him for a copy

Ah 'Daily Ireland' i remember that. what was O Rawe's motivation then for making the claims he did?

 

[treelover]

great cartoon by Bell in the G

 

[danny la rouge]

great cartoon by Bell in the G

Patchy: the perspective on the gun's a bit odd, for example.

 

[past caring]

Patchy: the perspective on the gun's a bit odd, for example.

No, there's a civil rights protester sheltering just behind the window.

 

[danny la rouge]

No, there's a civil rights protester sheltering just behind the window.

Ah, that explains that, then.

 

[ymu]

As I said, the Paras were fired on.

Except that Saville concluded that they were not fired upon.

Did those killed provoke the shooting by British soldiers?

• "None of the casualties shot by soldiers of Support Company was armed with a firearm or (with the probable exception of Gerald Donaghey) a bomb of any description. None was posing any threat of causing death or serious injury. In no case was any warning given before soldiers opened fire," the report said.

• Evidence from soldiers to the inquiry that they had fired after coming under attack was rejected. "We have concluded that none of them fired in response to attacks or threatened attacks by nail or petrol bombers. No one threw or threatened to throw a nail or petrol bomb at the soldiers on Bloody Sunday."

• The credibility of the accounts given by the soldiers was "materially undermined" because all soldiers bar one who were responsible for the casualties "insisted that they had shot at gunmen or bombers, which they had not". Saville said: "Many of these soldiers have knowingly put forward false accounts in order to seek to justify their firing".

Why did the soldiers open fire?

• The report concluded that officers reacted because of "the mistaken belief among them that republican paramilitaries were responding in force to their arrival in the Bogside", based on initial shots fired by one of their number, namely, Lieutenant N. "Our overall conclusion is that there was a serious and widespread loss of fire discipline among the soldiers of Support Company".

• Saville admonished Lieutenant N "not only for firing, but also for failing to realise the effect that his firing would be likely to have on the other soldiers who had come into the Bogside".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/15/bloody-sunday-inquiry-key-findings

 

[Sasaferrato]

Sas is a mercenary who joined an occupying army, like some Vlasovian dog in the GPW.

Fuck off Lynch.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I quite agree. Yours isn't.

As you wish.

 

[Teaboy]

Except that Saville concluded that they were not fired upon.

Sas does not accept the findings, I think he has made that quite clear.

 

[Sasaferrato]

'Course it is.


Is it full of people who are ranting so that they don't have to think, maybe?

Or perhaps a more ' normal '; response. U75 is far divorced from mainstream thought on many issues.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Agreed. It's time to move forward.

But I can't see it happening

It has to. Going back to the carnage of previous times is not an option.

The peace process in NI has been a long and difficult birth, surely no one wants to see it fail now?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Because HYS is populated by slavering fuckwits, most of whom are semi-literate (a lot of it's like trying to read essays by seven year-olds).

Granted that the standard of English could be better. There is the odd literate comment though.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Sas does not accept the findings, I think he has made that quite clear.

Really? Show me where I said that I didn't accept the findings.

 

[ymu]

Sas does not accept the findings, I think he has made that quite clear.

Has he? All I've seen is him saying he can't be bothered to read the report and repeating the old propaganda lies which have been firmly discredited by it. I've not seen him saying that he does not accept the findings, only making statements which demonstrate his ignorance of what they actually are.