Bloody Sunday inquiry - coming soon

[laptop]

However the likes Cameron saying they are 'shocked' I find hard to take - the report merely states in black and white what everyone knew anyway.

Its already being spun as a 'loss of control/discipline by the troops' and a 'terrible mistake'...

I'm shocked at the way it's being spun to absolve the command. That doesn't have anything to do with whether I'm surprised

 

[ViolentPanda]

Whar the deal with McGuiness ? report seems to suggest that he may have had a gun and was in the area etc

This hardly confirms or refutes the rumour that he was the marksman on the grassy knoll bit that has been banging around for years

Political expediency , now that hes a serving politician ?

McGuinness was said to have had a sub-machine gun. Different accounts list different guns, from a 9mm WW2 Sten to a 1930s-vintage .45ACP Thompson.
Neither of them (or most other sub-machine guns that were available in the 1970s) were capable of "sharpshooting", "sniping", or any other form of marksmanship that involved hitting anything more than 15 yards away.

 

[LiamO]

.And some of them by all accounts
deserve it.

Some of whom? unarmed Irish civilians or fully-armed British soldiers?

deserve what? Murdered in their own streets or prosecuted in their own courts?

 

[Chairman Meow]

Did they really need to spend £100million just to apologise?Its not like there are going to be any paras convicted now is it.And some of them by all accounts
deserve it.

 

[dylanredefined]

Some of whom deserve what?

A trial for murder.They fired on unarmed civilians some of whom were running away.Shooting someone because you think they are about to shoot you is one thing and far to easily done.
No excuse at all if they running away. .

Was it common knowledge what happened before the enquiry.Or were the rumours of snipers and hidden ira bodies and the other excuses pedalled in naffis
over the years actually believed by anyone in a position of authority?

 

[geminisnake]

A few bad apples, lost control in the heat of the moment etc..

Bullshit. They lied to cover their arses. They are murderers imo and I'm really glad I'm not related to any of them How dangerous is an injured person crawling away??

Btw grit I am NOT british, I'm Scottish.

 

[DotCommunist]

This is what Free Derry corner used to look like.

without wishing to be flippant, when it comes to style and symbology the provos are as goods as baader mienhoff in terms of style.

 

[LiamO]

To be frank, it's pretty fucking meaningless nearly 40 years and several cover-ups after the event.

Meaningless? Maybe it is to you.

But what if your father or brother had been shot dead - and then been labelled a gunman or nail-bomber on the TV, in the Papers and in the Widgery Tribunal?

What if for 40 years the Government of one of the world's most powerful nations had deliberately and maliciously maligned them in death. Is there a statute of limitations on justice?

Would this belated apology/admission of lying be meaningless for you then?

 

[weltweit]

So, an enquiry that took years, costed millions and tells us that some soldiers did kill unarmed protesters, as most people knew anyhow.

What now?

Prosecutions for the soldiers?

 

[Giles]

When Blair set up this enquiry, couldn't he just have admitted what pretty much everyone knew all along, that the actions of the army were unjustified and then said "sorry" back then?

And used the £200 million now paying for a bunch of lawyers, for schools 'n' hospitals for people?

Maybe even in Northern Ireland?

Giles..

 

[dylanredefined]

Well they couldn't keep Lee Clegg in jail. For shooting a kid in front of a policeman and then lying about it.
You really think any trial is going to do more than sell daily mails and give more lawyers money?

 

[ViolentPanda]

A few bad apples, lost control in the heat of the moment etc.

Odd how a battle-hardened elite military formation could lose control like that, making rookie mistakes that even the greenest rifleman would feel great shame for making.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Any chance of further explaining who the term "Brits" covers?

Will you not leave the poor lad alone with his victimhood?

 

[dylans]

So finally it's official. The British army murdered in cold blood


But we knew that didn't we. We knew it since the moment it happened.

The people of Derry are vindicated. THE PARATROOP REGIMENT SHOULD HANG THEIR HEADS IN SHAME.

RIP the 13 innocent victims

Colonel Derek Wilford is a murderer

 

[HAL9000]

While clearly the killing of civilians is unacceptable I think we should also look at the shooting of students by the national guard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

The main issue is that bringing in troops to do policing is a risk, in the case of the US shooting there were no guns in the vincinity. Rather than brits out to kill the irish, I suspect it was more a tragic mistake once the shooting started all the soldiers opened fire.

• Leading up to bloody sunday IRA were mounting armed road blocks
• Were the para's trained to support the civilian police?

The main issue was the decision by the British goverment to cover up the situation in the face of clear evidence that unarmed civilians had been killed.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Meaningless? Maybe it is to you.

But what if your father or brother had been shot dead - and then been labelled a gunman or nail-bomber on the TV, in the Papers and in the Widgery Tribunal?

What if for 40 years the Government of one of the world's most powerful nations had deliberately and maliciously maligned them in death. Is there a statute of limitations on justice?

Would this belated apology/admission of lying be meaningless for you then?

What if you are a relative of one of the thousand soldiers murdered in Northern Ireland by the paramilitary scum, are you holding your breath waiting for the inquiry into their deaths? Waiting for an apology from the dregs of humanity who murdered them?

It seems that your coin has but one side.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Those who gave the orders should shoulder the greatest blame.

Those who gave the orders/those who failed to give the orders, I'd say.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Did they really need to spend £100million just to apologise?Its not like there are going to be any paras convicted now is it.And some of them by all accounts
deserve it.


I meant the paras who fired and lied deserve to be prosecuted.

200 million, near as dammit.

 

[Sasaferrato]

The report goes further then I expected.

However the likes Cameron saying they are 'shocked' I find hard to take - the report merely states in black and white what everyone knew anyway.

Its already being spun as a 'loss of control/discipline by the troops' and a 'terrible mistake' - when it was a deliberate action sanctioned from above. At best those who sent the paras in would have preffered slightly less butchery - or a more competent cover up.

Those who gave the orders should shoulder the greatest blame.

The report concluded that this was not the case.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A trial for murder.They fired on unarmed civilians some of whom were running away.Shooting someone because you think they are about to shoot you is one thing and far to easily done.
No excuse at all if they running away. .

Was it common knowledge what happened before the enquiry.Or were the rumours of snipers and hidden ira bodies and the other excuses pedalled in naffis
over the years actually believed by anyone in a position of authority?

Not when I was in, and that was less than 10 years after it happened. It was pretty much taken for granted that the Paras had murdered unarmed civilians, and had then cooked up a whole batch of contradictory justifications for opening fire.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Meaningless? Maybe it is to you.

But what if your father or brother had been shot dead - and then been labelled a gunman or nail-bomber on the TV, in the Papers and in the Widgery Tribunal?

What if for 40 years the Government of one of the world's most powerful nations had deliberately and maliciously maligned them in death. Is there a statute of limitations on justice?

Would this belated apology/admission of lying be meaningless for you then?

You miss my point, which is that any apology given by the British government is meaningless in terms of the British establishment actually being apologetic for the events.
Sure, the enquiry has meant that the families of the dead, injured and calumnied get "closure", but the apology itself, the whining mea culpa from the current representative of British establishment interests, is worthless as an expression of remorse for the state's actions. The state has no remorse.

 

[Sasaferrato]

So finally it's official. The British army murdered in cold blood


But we knew that didn't we. We knew it since the moment it happened.

The people of Derry are vindicated. THE PARATROOP REGIMENT SHOULD HANG THEIR HEADS IN SHAME.

RIP the 13 innocent victims

Colonel Derek Wilford is a murderer

No, he is not. No order was given to open fire, not from a senior level at least.

Quite coincidentally, I lived in Aldershot between two of the Paras that were there on the day. The Paras were perhaps not fired on from the march, but they were fired on.

Interesting that McGuiness refused to tell the inquiry what he was up to on the day.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Odd how a battle-hardened elite military formation could lose control like that, making rookie mistakes that even the greenest rifleman would feel great shame for making.

Positively bizarre, isn't it?

 

[dylanredefined]

Not when I was in, and that was less than 10 years after it happened. It was pretty much taken for granted that the Paras had murdered unarmed civilians, and had then cooked up a whole batch of contradictory justifications for opening fire.

So why spend all the money proving what everyone knew then?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The report concluded that this was not the case.

Who would have thought it.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Not when I was in, and that was less than 10 years after it happened. It was pretty much taken for granted that the Paras had murdered unarmed civilians, and had then cooked up a whole batch of contradictory justifications for opening fire.

Having had the experience of actually knowing two of the Paras who were there, it was less clear cut than that. However, what is not at issue is that those marchers who were shot dead were not armed, and had not fired at the Paras.

You were in NI, you know how chaotic it could be.

 

[dylans]

What if you are a relative of one of the thousand soldiers murdered in Northern Ireland by the paramilitary scum, are you holding your breath waiting for the inquiry into their deaths? Waiting for an apology from the dregs of humanity who murdered them?

It seems that your coin has but one side.

How dare you insult the memory of the dead on this day.

This is a day of national disgrace. A day when after 40 years, It is finally acknowledged that British troops. BRITISH TROOPS, murdered innocent civilians.

After 40 years, it is a day of vindication for the dead who were smeared and insulted and called terrorists and blamed for their own deaths. Vindication after 40 years of the lies of people like you who denied this crime ever happened.

So show the tiniest, smallest, tiniest drop of humanity and decency on this day of all days and FUCK OFF you disgusting despicable example of a human being.

 

[butchersapron]

No, he is not. No order was given to open fire, not from a senior level at least.

Quite coincidentally, I lived in Aldershot between two of the Paras that were there on the day. The Paras were perhaps not fired on from the march, but they were fired on.

That's the paras who've just been found to have told lie after lie after lie about that day for nearly 4 decades? Right, those ones?

 

[ViolentPanda]

So finally it's official. The British army murdered in cold blood


But we knew that didn't we. We knew it since the moment it happened.

The people of Derry are vindicated. THE PARATROOP REGIMENT SHOULD HANG THEIR HEADS IN SHAME.

RIP the 13 innocent victims

Colonel Derek Wilford is a murderer

It's "The Parachute Regt".

 

[dylans]

No, he is not. No order was given to open fire, not from a senior level at least.

Quite coincidentally, I lived in Aldershot between two of the Paras that were there on the day. The Paras were perhaps not fired on from the march, but they were fired on.

Interesting that McGuiness refused to tell the inquiry what he was up to on the day.

Your mates are murdering bastards and you are a fucking wanker