Bloody Sunday inquiry - coming soon

[articul8]

Bloody Sunday killings to be ruled unlawful

As I understand it at least one witness (Soldier F) has effectively admitted to both murder and perjury - but his explanation was that he was 18 and the militar police basically told me what he had "seen".

It should be the bastard officers like Robert Ford that go down. He sent a memo advising them to pursue a strategy of shooting unarmed "ringleaders". They won't There'll be a lot of handwringing about mistakes and lessons learnt and terrible tragedy - but no-one will be called to account, and the key message that British State massacred civilian protestors will be obscured.

 

[likesfish]

THE British state DID'NT murder innocent protestors nearly 40 years ago

Members of 1 para killed innocent protestors

 

[Deareg]

THE British state DID'NT murder innocent protestors nearly 40 years ago

Members of 1 para killed innocent protestors

didn't the commanding officer on the day later recieve a medal?

 

[newbie]

R4 has collected some of the evidence into a couple of hour long dramas

Civilian evidence
Military evidence

 

[articul8]

Members of 1 para killed innocent protestors

What, just for the hell of it? Or because they got it wrong as individuals? Bollocks. Even in the best possible light ("these were young lads and got panicked into shooting innocent people") the State has consistently and systematically sought to obscure and distort the truth of what happened from that day in 1972 on.

But is it a coincidence they "reacted" like this when Major-General Ford (who - incidentally - appratently thought the whole thing a hoot according to conversations at the time) deliberately talked of a strategy of shooting troublemakers in the Bogside? The whole of military-political officialdom hated the fact that ordinary people had made a third of a so-called "British" city a no-go area for the police and wanted this brought to an end forthwith.

The facts all point to the conclusion that the British state took a very deliberate choice to continue to deny people their civil rights by use of brutal - lethal -force.

 

[newbie]

But is it a coincidence they "reacted" like this when Major-General Ford (who - incidentally - appratently thought the whole thing a hoot according to conversions at the time) deliberately talked of a strategy of shooting troublemakers in the Bogside?

I don't know why but his evidence is in the first episode, above, about 50 minutes in. Not long after Bernadette Devlin (as she was then). Worth listening to.

 

[Kaka Tim]

What, just for the hell of it? Or because they got it wrong as individuals? Bollocks. Even in the best possible light ("these were young lads and got panicked into shooting innocent people") the State has consistently and systematically sought to obscure and distort the truth of what happened from that day in 1972 on.

But is it a coincidence they "reacted" like this when Major-General Ford (who - incidentally - appratently thought the whole thing a hoot according to conversations at the time) deliberately talked of a strategy of shooting troublemakers in the Bogside? The whole of military-political officialdom hated the fact that ordinary people had made a third of a so-called "British" city a no-go area for the police and wanted this brought to an end forthwith.

The facts all point to the conclusion that the British state took a very deliberate choice to continue to deny people their civil rights by use of brutal - lethal -force.

Yep - standard imperalist tactic - shoot the uppity natives. Same as in india, kenya, Aden, Iraq.... not a 'mistake' - its a deliberate tactic. Why else send in the paras with live ammo to confront a protest march?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Everybody knows what happened: government troops shot a load of demonstrators. Happens all over the place.

 

[butchersapron]

Warren point.

 

[articul8]

what about Warrenpoint?

 

[butchersapron]

Dunno. Don't know why i posted that.

 

[likesfish]

Everybody knows what happened: government troops shot a load of demonstrators. Happens all over the place.

unfortunatly true.
Claiming the march was entirley peaceful neglets some important facts.
The provence was in chaos troops were on the streets with live ammo.
There were gunmen on and around the march regardless of the wishes of the organisers of the march.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2002/apr/29/pressandpublishing.bloodysunday.
So you've got no go areas, gunmen and a peaceful demo add Paratroopers who are arggesive and been told to crack heads
what could possibly go wrong

 

[butchersapron]

Read that link you fucking apologist.

 

[butchersapron]

It's weird how these accidents, these unfortunate events out of the control of the actors always come with planning and are followed with lies isn't it?

 

[newbie]

unfortunatly true.
Claiming the march was entirley peaceful neglets some important facts.
The provence was in chaos troops were on the streets with live ammo.
There were gunmen on and around the march regardless of the wishes of the organisers of the march.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2002/apr/29/pressandpublishing.bloodysunday.
So you've got no go areas, gunmen and a peaceful demo add Paratroopers who are arggesive and been told to crack heads
what could possibly go wrong

were you there?

 

[articul8]

:
There were gunmen on and around the march

gunmen on the march Course there were...

 

[LiamO]

unfortunatly true.
Claiming the march was entirley peaceful neglets some important facts.

The most important of these 'facts' would appear to be a simple enough question...

When did going on a protest march, even one that ends in a bit of argy-bargy, become a capital offence?

This was an act carried out in the name of the British State, on streets claimed by Britain, on people who the British state claims as their own citizens. If Norn Iron was (as Maggie Thatcher claimed) as 'British as Finchley' perhaps you can remind me of the last time British soldiers opened up on protestors on Finchley High Road. Or when they sent the Paras in to 'police' football matches.

 

[likesfish]

probably when bombs and gunmen and mobs from rival teams try to burn each other out of houses and estates are declared no go zones

 

[Kaka Tim]

probably when bombs and gunmen and mobs from rival teams try to burn each other out of houses and estates are declared no go zones

yeah the paras were there to 'keep the peace' weren't they?

 

[LiamO]

When did going on a protest march, even one that ends in a bit of argy-bargy, become a capital offence?

answer the question rather than diverting the subject.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What, just for the hell of it? Or because they got it wrong as individuals? Bollocks. Even in the best possible light ("these were young lads and got panicked into shooting innocent people") the State has consistently and systematically sought to obscure and distort the truth of what happened from that day in 1972 on.

But is it a coincidence they "reacted" like this when Major-General Ford (who - incidentally - appratently thought the whole thing a hoot according to conversations at the time) deliberately talked of a strategy of shooting troublemakers in the Bogside? The whole of military-political officialdom hated the fact that ordinary people had made a third of a so-called "British" city a no-go area for the police and wanted this brought to an end forthwith.

The facts all point to the conclusion that the British state took a very deliberate choice to continue to deny people their civil rights by use of brutal - lethal -force.

Ford took Kitson's techniques as used in Kenya, and re-jigged them for urban "first world" situations.
And what a fucking mess they caused.

 

[ViolentPanda]

unfortunatly true.
Claiming the march was entirley peaceful neglets some important facts.
The provence was in chaos troops were on the streets with live ammo.
There were gunmen on and around the march regardless of the wishes of the organisers of the march.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2002/apr/29/pressandpublishing.bloodysunday.
So you've got no go areas, gunmen and a peaceful demo add Paratroopers who are arggesive and been told to crack heads
what could possibly go wrong

Mate, we always went on patrol with live ammo in Ulster, but we had RoEs that had to be adhered to, so just saying "troops were on the streets with live ammo" is meaningless.

 

[ViolentPanda]

probably when bombs and gunmen and mobs from rival teams try to burn each other out of houses and estates are declared no go zones

We both know that many of the tactics and strategies employed in Ulster would never be translated to mainland situations, however bad they were. NI was used as a training ground for troops, and a proving ground for trying out new formulations of unit tactics, without much consideration of anyone who didn't have a loud political voice.

 

[Deareg]

Bloody Justice, title of tv programme on utv 8pm, for anyone with sky, might be interesting in view of the new evidence available

 

[ernestolynch]

The most important of these 'facts' would appear to be a simple enough question...

When did going on a protest march, even one that ends in a bit of argy-bargy, become a capital offence?

This was an act carried out in the name of the British State, on streets claimed by Britain, on people who the British state claims as their own citizens. If Norn Iron was (as Maggie Thatcher claimed) as 'British as Finchley' perhaps you can remind me of the last time British soldiers opened up on protestors on Finchley High Road. Or when they sent the Paras in to 'police' football matches.

Well said

 

[Cobbles]

When did going on a protest march, even one that ends in a bit of argy-bargy, become a capital offence?

I never realised that the legal definition of sniping was "a bit of argy bargy".

Well, you live and learn.

 

[LiamO]

e

 

[LiamO]

even if, and it is one hell of an 'if' (more wishful thinking really), there was 'sniping'... is it not incumbent on the forces of the State to try and engage with the Sniper... rather than shoot dead 14 unarmed civilians?

why do ypou never answer the most salient point? Sorry, in future I will make them one at a time

 

[LiamO]

At Broadwater Farm, for example, shots were (according to Police) fired, petrol bombs thrown and a PC hacked to death by a machete. And the British State shot how many civilians in response?

 

[likesfish]

but broadwater farm although crap wasn't a festering apthartied statelet that had been left to fester for 50 odd years. That westminster had ignored and infact banned itself from interfering in. Although if some of the stuff that was considered normal behaviour in NI had even been attempted on the mainland all hell would have broken out
So when it did all explode the british state was clueless as was the army about the only rulebook they had to go on was "wog shooting in uppity colonies

broadwater farm were cops not soldiers and not the parachute regiment ordered in to get tough