"Blacked up" Morris dancers forced to flee during performance
- Thread starter beesonthewhatnow
- Start date
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
No idea - we came in through Brindley Place and assumed there was some big Morris event on, we passed between 4 and 6 different groups between Brindley Place and Victoria Square, and at least one of the groups was blackened, we followed another couple of groups, again at least one of which was blackened, down New Street towards the Bullring, but we went off down Corporation st and didn't see them do any dancing there or any kerfuffle.
We eventually followed a group, not blackened, walking back up New Street, and we did get the feeling that all was not well - bit of tension, no chatting and smiling in the group, people looking a bit flustered etc...
What it definitely was not was one group of loons deciding to mooch into Brum Kipper style and cause a ruckus, there must have been a large event to bring about so many Morris groups together - you simply don't see that many groups at things like the Green Man Festival at Club, which is much more home territory than the middle of Birmingham on a Saturday afternoon.
There was a reasonably sized Police presence on New Street for the Football - they seemed to be marshalling an area underneath New Street station and behind the Apple store, the old Waterstones bookshop - they completely ignored the Morris groups...
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I'm not sure how helpful it is to talk of the 'Morris community' when I doubt that some Morris troupe in a leafy home counties village have much in common with something like the Bacup Coconutters which is thoroughly working class, a remnant of traditional industry and based around a hard-drinking day of revelry.
I think most of these groups don't intend to be racist, to imitate black people or have anything in common with minstrels, and most local people who watch understand that too and within that local context it seems pretty harmless and not worth getting worked up about. Particularly in forgotten places like Bacup the shouts of racism come across like a particularly tin-eared form of metropolitan elitism and aren't helpful in preventing the ongoing rise of the right in these kind of places.
I can completely understand why a black person visiting from a city would watch with offended incomprehension though and can equally understand why these other Morris groups out of context went down really badly in Birmingham and the question has to be asked whether they were stupid or deliberately provocative.
I think most of these groups don't intend to be racist, to imitate black people or have anything in common with minstrels, and most local people who watch understand that too and within that local context it seems pretty harmless and not worth getting worked up about. Particularly in forgotten places like Bacup the shouts of racism come across like a particularly tin-eared form of metropolitan elitism and aren't helpful in preventing the ongoing rise of the right in these kind of places.
I can completely understand why a black person visiting from a city would watch with offended incomprehension though and can equally understand why these other Morris groups out of context went down really badly in Birmingham and the question has to be asked whether they were stupid or deliberately provocative.
As I understand it, it was a ritual noise making to wake up the apple trees. Bit of a gathering of families and a nighttime walk and bonfire for the kids. I'm being slightly tongue in cheek describing it as 'dodgy'.
They weren't "patriots" , they were the local Permaculture Trust.
A great many rainbow petes this year, fwiw. The chief black Pete resigned in disgust.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
It's all about blood and soil...
..and cider
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
I was sticking to it because of the implication that Moorish automatically meant black-skinned and that, therefore, the black faces in Morris Dancing were there to represent black men (ie Moors).
Morris Dancing could come from a form of dance where Moorish (ie exotic, expensive, colourful, sophisticated) costumes were originally worn but it did not imply that black men were dancing. It may have originated as a courtly type of dance but, by the time it got to England, it had become a pantomime
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Jesus, Darré.
Treacle Toes
Time
No one has argued that though I think it's clear that there are a range of potential reasons.
I have given you an example of reinactments that happen in Spain where the Moors are represented by people who Blacken their faces. I think it's pointless to argue phenotype and skin tone...the fact is that blackened faces are used to represent darker skinned people and in this case, the Moors.
Dressing up and masquerade yes...which in some cases will have included Blackening skin as part of the costume. There is nothing controversial about acknowledging that.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Good. And good.
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
Yeah, i've noticed plenty of blacking up at Lewes procession. The whole thing is a bit insane, defo not a family eventA friend and I were at Lewes bonfire night this year and booed and shouted at the people in blackface as they passed. I inferred from their total lack of reaction to it that this had happened to them before
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Nope. Was that just a feeling you had?
ska invita
back on the other side
Whats the atmosphere like in general? Politically that is
That is actually blackface. Not sure which Bonfire Society they are (Commercial Square?) but they're called "The Zulus".
It's a fucking weird cross. There's a lot of anti Catholic stuff but they also burn effigies of enemies of Bonfire, who can be all sorts. One year they burnt Bush and Bin Laden for example. They've burnt bankers and Prime Ministers.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Still not following; this conversation started with you calling young people in a photograph naughty brats.
You've still not really said what led you to post that. Very odd.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
I gently suggested what I meant earlier. But, you still seem very bothered by what was a flippant remark. We're going to have to differ on what is deemed 'direct action' I suppose. Another thread?
ska invita
back on the other side
From the official Lewes website: 1st Pioneer Costume – Zulu « Lewes Borough Bonfire Society
1st Pioneer Costume – Zulu
Zulus.
The Zulus are Lewes Borough Bonfire Society’s First Pioneers. They first appeared in 1948 with Mexicans but in 1949 Zulus became the only first pioneers. Over the years the head dresses have become bigger and brighter some reaching 9 feet tall. During the 1950’s Ted Over used to bring some young people dressed in grass skirts, beads and fuzzy black hair from Brighton to join the ranks of the Zulus. This unfortunately does not happen now. The outfits are all home made including the head dresses and beading, which takes many hours of hard work.
I know its hard, but can you put your finger more on the mood there?
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
I've known people to do it on acid too. Most people are there just for a laugh and a booze. One year someone ran up the huge pallet pyramid and sat on the armchair on the top, as it was burning.
Its quite a tense affair at times, not politically, but cos a large dangerous firework is liable to go off in the crowd at any time. People seem to bring their own the times ive been, as well as the organised displays.
It is quite an interesting experience though, and i'd advise people to try it.
ETA: Despite the anti-catholic theme is not really an aggressive atmosphere - just a spectacle - to see lots of burning crosses marching down a hill in succession is quite a sight. Its more just like a "fuck health and safety with fire and explosives" festival.
That is a source?
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Fucking hellFrom the official Lewes website: 1st Pioneer Costume – Zulu « Lewes Borough Bonfire Society
1st Pioneer Costume – Zulu
Zulus.
The Zulus are Lewes Borough Bonfire Society’s First Pioneers. They first appeared in 1948 with Mexicans but in 1949 Zulus became the only first pioneers. Over the years the head dresses have become bigger and brighter some reaching 9 feet tall. During the 1950’s Ted Over used to bring some young people dressed in grass skirts, beads and fuzzy black hair from Brighton to join the ranks of the Zulus. This unfortunately does not happen now. The outfits are all home made including the head dresses and beading, which takes many hours of hard work.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I've seen them at the Bonfire societies' procession in Hastings. And some others like them.Fucking hell
From the official Lewes website: 1st Pioneer Costume – Zulu « Lewes Borough Bonfire Society
1st Pioneer Costume – Zulu
Zulus.
The Zulus are Lewes Borough Bonfire Society’s First Pioneers. They first appeared in 1948 with Mexicans but in 1949 Zulus became the only first pioneers. Over the years the head dresses have become bigger and brighter some reaching 9 feet tall. During the 1950’s Ted Over used to bring some young people dressed in grass skirts, beads and fuzzy black hair from Brighton to join the ranks of the Zulus. This unfortunately does not happen now. The outfits are all home made including the head dresses and beading, which takes many hours of hard work.
I know its hard, but can you put your finger more on the mood there?
It's calmed down a lot in recent years but I'd say it still is a celebration of the power of the mob. More revolt than revolution.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That nasty definition.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What do you mean by source? I didn't mention the word so why try to pin me the wall for it? It is a link that contains a series of quotes and background that undermine the claim sirena made. Source?
A source used to provide evidence to support the point you attempted to make. Usually your source material is of a far higher standard - that web-site is a holy mess with an agenda.
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