"Banks create money out of nothing" - Guardian
- Thread starter Jazzz
- Start date
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
What?oh ffs.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Eh?
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Bit harsh.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
Tbf jazz genuinely believes the things he holds as being issues. He isn't a racist or a fascist or anti Semitic. He is aware of the fact people doubt his sources and his 'knowledge'. He genuinely feels he has to do something about these issues he thinks he's uncovered because he's genuinely concerned about it.
The issue really is that if this was about something more mainstream that dedication would be passed off as passion.
The fact that his issues are in fact provable nonsense means it leaves him open to having his motives questioned.
I've said it before and I really mean it he's genuinely unwell. People need to stop trying to debate with him on these issues as it reenforces his illness and if they genuinely wanted to see a change in him or his posting encourage him to seek professional help.
The issue really is that if this was about something more mainstream that dedication would be passed off as passion.
The fact that his issues are in fact provable nonsense means it leaves him open to having his motives questioned.
I've said it before and I really mean it he's genuinely unwell. People need to stop trying to debate with him on these issues as it reenforces his illness and if they genuinely wanted to see a change in him or his posting encourage him to seek professional help.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
From wiki (interestingly enough if you search google for 'printing money' the first entry you get is quantitative easing (and I think that constitutes a formal proof, myself):
"with new electronically created money" = "printing money" i rest my case
Fair do's it's defined as more than that but that's still basically what it is. It's worse really if they defining it as just buying up 'financial assets' rather than investing in small businesses or doing something else useful with it like funding energy efficiency measures where you'd make a real fucking return.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
It's not just "printing money" as the money is buying assets.From wiki (interestingly enough if you search google for 'printing money' the first entry you get is quantitative easing (and I think that constitutes a formal proof, myself):
"with new electronically created money" = "printing money" i rest my case
Fair do's it's defined as more than that but that's still basically what it is. It's worse really if they defining it as just buying up 'financial assets' rather than investing in small businesses or doing something else useful with it like funding energy efficiency measures where you'd make a real fucking return.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
intangibles
eta: and printing money isn't just "printing money" as the money had to buy something, too.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
On jazzz.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
From wiki (interestingly enough if you search google for 'printing money' the first entry you get is quantitative easing (and I think that constitutes a formal proof, myself):
"with new electronically created money" = "printing money" i rest my case
Fair do's it's defined as more than that but that's still basically what it is. It's worse really if they defining it as just buying up 'financial assets' rather than investing in small businesses or doing something else useful with it like funding energy efficiency measures where you'd make a real fucking return.
I think the point of QE as opposed to simply printing money is that you can reverse QE by selling the assets back at some point, and as such undo the increase in money to stave off inflation if necessary.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
What about incoherent ones?
Belboid's post sums up the situation pretty well IMO. You can't continually post up this shit again and again and again and make the statements he has (defending holocaust denial, defending use of the protocols) and have clean hands. He should be judged by his actions and those clearly make him an anti-semite/racist (tho personally I wouldn't call him a fascist).
Your post was:
I find a problem with this for the following:
1) you say "Whilst the deposits remain deposited, they can't be spent". however in your example, it is precisely the contrary. You, as Mr Depositor, would say "I have £1000". Now suppose the bank makes a loan of £900 to Mr Borrower. Then your account reads: £1000 credit. And Mr Borrower - £900 credit. Now the key thing here is - you are completely free to turn up at the bank to close your account, or make transfers to other accounts with your £1000. It is absolutely not the case that the bank says, "oh sorry, we loaned it out again". The bank only needs enough cash reserves compared to the credit it creates to satisfy the small percentage of people that will withdraw hard cash at any one time (currently around 3%). If you or I were to be making the loans, we couldn't do this.
2) This circulation is simply not necessary. To give a simple example, if someone deposits £1000 hard cash, the bank doesn't have to pass that £1000 around with other banks or itself making loans that eventually add to credit creation of maybe 30 times. It can simply make thirty loans of £1000 straight off the bat.
btw, I really can't be bothered with dealing with the incessant guilt-by-association attacks and absolute lies that are abound on this thread by some posters who would do well to be less obsessed. Suffice it to say it reflects what they wish my character is, which is highly curious. 
It is a shame because it all detracts from the question of how money is created, and what effect that has on us, which is highly pertinent and is the number one political topic that should concern us.
It is a shame because it all detracts from the question of how money is created, and what effect that has on us, which is highly pertinent and is the number one political topic that should concern us.
love detective
there's no love too small
Absolute nonsense
This one comment makes it patently clear you don't understand circulation, nor have a clue what you're talking about
Your desire to see something that isn't there overrides any ability to understand that thing
There's plenty much to criticise about the finance system/capitalist social relations, and there have been plenty of threads that do this from the basis of understanding what is being criticised. You just skip the understanding part however as you don't seem to see that as being an important part of any critique, and go straight to the jumping up & down screaming & shouting like you've had a Eureka moment and making a tit of yourself
fogbat
The Talibum
btw, I really can't be bothered with dealing with the incessant guilt-by-association attacks and absolute lies that are abound on this thread by some posters who would do well to be less obsessed. Suffice it to say it reflects what they wish my character is, which is highly curious.
It is a shame because it all detracts from the question of how money is created, and what effect that has on us, which is highly pertinent and is the number one political topic that should concern us.
Kindly specify which statements are lies.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Fuck right off.btw, I really can't be bothered with dealing with the incessant guilt-by-association attacks and absolute lies that are abound on this thread by some posters who would do well to be less obsessed. Suffice it to say it reflects what they wish my character is, which is highly curious.
It is a shame because it all detracts from the question of how money is created, and what effect that has on us, which is highly pertinent and is the number one political topic that should concern us.
YOU post this shit. So, do you stand by it?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Your racism detracts from all the points you make, yet you refuse to acknowledge it. I wonder why.btw, I really can't be bothered with dealing with the incessant guilt-by-association attacks and absolute lies that are abound on this thread by some posters who would do well to be less obsessed. Suffice it to say it reflects what they wish my character is, which is highly curious.
It is a shame because it all detracts from the question of how money is created, and what effect that has on us, which is highly pertinent and is the number one political topic that should concern us.
Idaho
blah blah blah
I think for many posters - especially the active lefty ones, need to put people in the standard political boxes before being intellectually processed, hence the determination on their part to classify Jazzz as a racist or fascist. Doing this also means that they can attack him directly rather than having to deal with his arguments or ideas (bonkers as they oft times are).
Blagsta - seeing as you have a reasonable grounding in mental health issues, I find it odd that you let your political orthodoxy lead the way rather than seeing Jazzz as someone who needs help.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I agree with your first paragraph but not sure about the second. To be fair I've not paid enough attention to what Jazzz posts, for all I know he's simply a connoisseur of fine conspiraloonacy, in fact for all I know he posts all this stuff in spare minutes during the course of his busy job as CTO at Citibank. I think the same applies to you lot, you can't go around questioning peoples sanity because they post bollocks on the internets. Fair play if you suspect he's nuts, but one really should with-hold judgement. At least until something more than big theories about how the world works start to appear and things get all a bit rather intense on a more personal seeming level.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
what was that about camouflage??
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
We've had years of trying to deal with his "arguments". If he doesn't want to be called a racist he should stop linking to racist sites. If what he says is true he should be able to find support from less objectionable sources. He can't, or won't, which speaks volumes. It's really not that hard to grasp.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I didn't like the way you cited the number of fascist jews about before ww2 to add weight to your claim that Jazzz, although (it was said) jewish- is a racist or fascist. I thought the exchange demeaned all involved to be fair. Besides, anyone can be a fascist, there are certainly plenty of Zionists that could be described as such, making your point the way you did struck me as hideously embarrassing, and poorly executed. Just my opinion, my reaction felt quite emphatic at the time but in hind sight it probably would have been better to say nothing.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He hasn't linked to any racist sites on this thread. People are jumping up and down on him on this thread for stuff he's done in the past. Better to deal with what he posts on this thread, I would have thought. The objections to the sites he's linked to are there to see on the threads he's done it on.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
It was a specific response to Dwyers claim that it was impossible for Jazzzzzz to be a racist or fascist because he was Jewish. Thats clearly a nonsense. The fact that there were Jewish fascists doesnt mean Jazzzz is one, but it does mean that his Jewishness doesnt preclude the fact. Dont see what's at all embartassing about that - except for Dwyer.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
He doesn't appear unwell to me. Even if he is, that doesn't necessarily mean racist views should go unchallenged. Being unwell (if he is) does not give one carte blanche to behave however one likes.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I don't believe that you would take this position if any other poster had consistently done what jazzz has done. And i don't believe that you would do it with jazzz if this wasn't a subject you have some interest in.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
The concentration on finance capital as the problem was a feature of fascism (as has already been pointed out). Making a big fuss about fractional reserve banking is a feature of anti-semitic conspiracy theories as well as right wing economics (as has already been pointed out).
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
Similar threads
