Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[Frumious B.]

Minnie, now that there is more help and inside info available from b&w and sundry other people who are wise to the DWP/ATOS nest of vipers, I feel confident that we can get justice. We just have to be ultra conscientious about the paperwork and play the bastards at their own game. And ideally have an emergency stash in the bank to see us through payment delays caused by minor foul ups, lost-in-the-post etc. So maybe you can relax a bit? I'm so relaxed I'm finally doing the spring cleaning - because I'm sure I can afford to carry on living here.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Minnie, now that there is more help and inside info available from b&w and sundry other people who are wise to the DWP/ATOS nest of vipers, I feel confident that we can get justice. We just have to be ultra conscientious about the paperwork and play the bastards at their own game. And ideally have an emergency stash in the bank to see us through payment delays caused by minor foul ups, lost-in-the-post etc. So maybe you can relax a bit? I'm so relaxed I'm finally doing the spring cleaning - because I'm sure I can afford to carry on living here.

I rang them today and they said award was for 24 months, so I won't receive any more forms until then (if that is to be believed). It is a relief, but I have non-benefits related stress at the moment that's sort of overshadowing that relief

 

[Frumious B.]

Sorry to hear that - it's one thing after another.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Sorry to hear that - it's one thing after another.

Certainly feels like it

 

[Frumious B.]

Glad you can summon the cheesy grin tho!

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Glad you can summon the cheesy grin tho!

Don't want to depress everyone with a miserable one

 

[Celt]

curious curious call from the Job centre, tellingg me I had nil points on ESA, was there anything I didn't say at the medical - and there was. I asked her could she ring back at a time I wasn't going to reply in shock and heavily medicated for pain, she asked me a few questions, I remembered some of the things I had missed and then she said, from this conversation I can award you 15 poimts! I'm not sure, have I just made support group?

This seems a rather unorthodox assessment follow up but who knows with the current system. Sorry but not the support group 15 points puts you into the WRAG which is 12 monts contribution based ESA or longer if you are non contribution with conditionality of undertaking work related activity (WTF that is who knows )

I'm still rather disbelieving, the conversation with the job centre lady was very, very odd, I think I'm only going to believe this when I have it in writing. It is a very empty victory for want of a better word. So what happens in WRAG ?

I've still had nothing in writing, if the intention is to drive me mad, they are succeeding.

Thank you ash for being the only poster who commented on my posts.

I am not the most prolific of posters on the board, Miss Minnie and Eq helped when I was filling in the forms and I'm very grateful, but I have felt quite isolated since posting about the phone call. I suppose people don't know me and therefor don't know if my claim is valid or not, and thats partly my fault, my self esteem is way below low, but I do try and support other people where I can,

I am not sure I can cope with WRAG, if the purpose of that is to get me work ready, which would be great if it were likely to be possible , but unless they can also cure my pain, which is considerable I don't think I can work, it takes me all my time to live, and am barely coping with this at the moment between physical pain and depression living takes a lot of energy.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Really sorry Celt, but up until a couple of days ago, I'd not been on here much. I pretty much avoided it for a cople of weeks purposely to stop myself reading ATOS threads as they were stressing me out. I also didn't know the answer. I've done hundreds of online jigsaw puzzles in the last couple of weeks to take my mind off ATOS

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

curious curious call from the Job centre, tellingg me I had nil points on ESA, was there anything I didn't say at the medical - and there was. I asked her could she ring back at a time I wasn't going to reply in shock and heavily medicated for pain, she asked me a few questions, I remembered some of the things I had missed and then she said, from this conversation I can award you 15 poimts! I'm not sure, have I just made support group?

This seems a rather unorthodox assessment follow up but who knows with the current system. Sorry but not the support group 15 points puts you into the WRAG which is 12 monts contribution based ESA or longer if you are non contribution with conditionality of undertaking work related activity (WTF that is who knows )

Are you sure about that ash? I'm sure I've read if you score 15 or more, that gets you into the WRAG, but you may also be eligible for Support Group

I'd give them a ring Celt and ask and ask how long for, and also ask for the decision maker forms (the ESA85 etc). That's what I did today

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

From Benefits and Work

Qualifying for the Support Group

In order to qualify for the Support Group you need to;

• meet one or more of the relevant descriptors, or
• meet one of the associated Exceptional Circumstances rules.

as I don't think she meets the exceptional circumstances criteria, then she might be eligible under one of the descriptors

 

[Frumious B.]

Celt, perhaps people didn't reply because they have no knowledge of this sort of phone call? It's a new one on me. This is much, much too important for you to be relying on a small, random group of fellow claimants here, you need specialist advice. I'd subscribe to b&w. They also have a forum, but it's very tightly run and you get quick answers from a specialist who works for b&w.

 

[Greebo]

I've still had nothing in writing, if the intention is to drive me mad, they are succeeding.

Thank you ash for being the only poster who commented on my posts.

I am not the most prolific of posters on the board, Miss Minnie and Eq helped when I was filling in the forms and I'm very grateful, but I have felt quite isolated since posting about the phone call. I suppose people don't know me and therefor don't know if my claim is valid or not, and thats partly my fault, my self esteem is way below low, but I do try and support other people where I can<snip>

(((Celt))), I'm very sorry that neither VP nor I replied to your posts, when usually at least one of us would have done so as soon as they'd been posted.

FWIW last week, while you were worried sick about your ESA and being made to look for work, I was on day 3 of scarlet fever. As you can probably imagine, VP wasn't overblessed with free time or energy, particularly as he'd got a milder form of it (just pain, headache, and extra stiffness) on account of having had it before. It was just your bad luck that this happened at the time you needed us.

 

[Greebo]

curious curious call from the Job centre, tellingg me I had nil points on ESA, was there anything I didn't say at the medical - and there was. I asked her could she ring back at a time I wasn't going to reply in shock and heavily medicated for pain, she asked me a few questions, I remembered some of the things I had missed and then she said, from this conversation I can award you 15 poimts! I'm not sure, have I just made support group?

You probably have, but don't believe a thing until you get it in writing. I really hope this takes the pressure off you a bit. Celt.

 

[WouldBe]

Oh, and if you turn up smart they do use it against you.

Smart is the default setting for ATOS. I turned up scruffy and unshaven and the report said smart.

 

[equationgirl]

I've still had nothing in writing, if the intention is to drive me mad, they are succeeding.

Thank you ash for being the only poster who commented on my posts.

I am not the most prolific of posters on the board, Miss Minnie and Eq helped when I was filling in the forms and I'm very grateful, but I have felt quite isolated since posting about the phone call. I suppose people don't know me and therefor don't know if my claim is valid or not, and thats partly my fault, my self esteem is way below low, but I do try and support other people where I can,

I am not sure I can cope with WRAG, if the purpose of that is to get me work ready, which would be great if it were likely to be possible , but unless they can also cure my pain, which is considerable I don't think I can work, it takes me all my time to live, and am barely coping with this at the moment between physical pain and depression living takes a lot of energy.

Darling {{{celt}}}

Sorry, I fell asleep last night and then have been at work all day, so this is the first chance I've got to see your posts.

Your claim is valid. You medical conditions are certainly not in doubt in my mind, so please don't think no-one cares or thinks about what you're going through. Your reaction to the process is extremely common from the articles and posts I've read, it is a horrible stressful process that is designed to make you give up and withdraw your claim. By staying the course and by being awarded 15 points, you have won.

15 points means you are in the Work Related Activity Group. This link to Benefits & Work explains more about the differences between the WRAG and the support group:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/em...esa-glossary/1345-work-related-activity-group

Here is the list of support group descriptors. If you think that any of these apply to you (and could give examples in support if your opinion, if required, to the DWP), then you may wish to consider an appeal:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/em...e/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors

 

[equationgirl]

Are you sure about that ash? I'm sure I've read if you score 15 or more, that gets you into the WRAG, but you may also be eligible for Support Group

I'd give them a ring Celt and ask and ask how long for, and also ask for the decision maker forms (the ESA85 etc). That's what I did today

That's right - WRAG is about scoring enough points, Support group is about the descriptors applying to your conditions.

 

[ash]

That's right - WRAG is about scoring enough points, Support group is about the descriptors applying to your conditions.

It's confusing isn't it you'd think there would be points for the support group as well but the more complicated it us the more people will give up or be so confused that they can't make head nor tail of it, it took me ages initially to understand it. Anyway Celt, I agree with equation girl look at the descriptors and consider an appeal, at the moment there is a 40% success rate at appeal, you are more likes to succeed if you attend the appeal and are represented. Good luck.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Being in the work group isn't as bad as it sounds - It's one appointment every 4 or 5 weeks for which attendance is mandatory but you don't have to look for a job - All you do is talk about your options. I'm not trying to make light of Celt's situation, obviously mandatory attendance is far from ideal, but if you insist to your advisor that you don't consider yourself job ready they're in no position to make you apply for jobs.

As a matter of interest, does anyone know what'd happen if you attended your work group appointments but didn't interact with your advisor at all, just sat there for an hour without speaking?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

As a matter of interest, does anyone know what'd happen if you attended your work group appointments but didn't interact with your advisor at all, just sat there for an hour without speaking?

They'd think you're a very unsociable young man?

 

[Frances Lengel]

They'd think you're a very unsociable young man?

I mean would you get sanctioned for not co operating.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I mean would you get sanctioned for not co operating.

I realise that and I have no idea. I will pass you on to My Learned friend equationgirl

 

[equationgirl]

I realise that and I have no idea. I will pass you on to My Learned friend equationgirl

My esteemed friend and poster Miss Minx is very kind

First, yes, it would seem that the DWP do get a bit 'snaction-happy' with people in the WRAG:
https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/20...pplied-to-sick-and-disabled-people-last-year/
This article claims more sanctions are applied to this group than on other schemes, for example, whilst this article from the Guardian talks about the sanction levels increasing from December :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/sep/03/disabled-benefits-claimants-fines-work

This from Benefits & Work explains the situation more clearly:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/em...mployment-and-support-allowance-esa-sanctions

To my mind sanctions against this group seems counterproductive. A lot of claimants are trying to cope with physical and mental conditions so for some even getting to the adviser meeting could trigger a relapse or mean that they struggle through the next few days.

So, for the example quoted, I think yes they would sanction you (or at least make a concerted effort to) for not co-operating. Fuckers.

 

[toggle]

i wonder how many people are being sanctioned for failing to do 'compulsory activity' that is beyond their ability.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

My esteemed friend and poster Miss Minx is very kind

First, yes, it would seem that the DWP do get a bit 'snaction-happy' with people in the WRAG:
https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/20...pplied-to-sick-and-disabled-people-last-year/
This article claims more sanctions are applied to this group than on other schemes, for example, whilst this article from the Guardian talks about the sanction levels increasing from December :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/sep/03/disabled-benefits-claimants-fines-work

This from Benefits & Work explains the situation more clearly:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/em...mployment-and-support-allowance-esa-sanctions

To my mind sanctions against this group seems counterproductive. A lot of claimants are trying to cope with physical and mental conditions so for some even getting to the adviser meeting could trigger a relapse or mean that they struggle through the next few days.

So, for the example quoted, I think yes they would sanction you (or at least make a concerted effort to) for not co-operating. Fuckers.

Thank you My Learned Friend

I think this sentence probably says it all

Sanctions can be imposed for:

• Failing to attend or take part in a work-focused interview.

I would think that any adviser would consider you sitting there and not saying a word as a failure to take part

 

[equationgirl]

i wonder how many people are being sanctioned for failing to do 'compulsory activity' that is beyond their ability.

Too many, I reckon.

 

[audiotech]

That's right - WRAG is about scoring enough points, Support group is about the descriptors applying to your conditions.

You can move into the "Support Group" without descriptors being applied, under the "special circumstances" rule. You don't receive any "support" btw. They just leave you alone.

 

[audiotech]

As a matter of interest, does anyone know what'd happen if you attended your work group appointments but didn't interact with your advisor at all, just sat there for an hour without speaking?

They whisk you off to a private room.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

You can move into the "Support Group" without descriptors being applied, under the "special circumstances" rule. You don't receive any "support" btw. They just leave you alone.

True, but I wasn't sure if Celt was pregnant or dying

 

[Celt]

Not pregnant and only dying at the same speed as everyone else. Thank you for your input, I realise that I have reached "overwrought" not a nice place to be.

Celt, perhaps people didn't reply because they have no knowledge of this sort of phone call? It's a new one on me. This is much, much too important for you to be relying on a small, random group of fellow claimants here, you need specialist advice. I'd subscribe to b&w. They also have a forum, but it's very tightly run and you get quick answers from a specialist who works for b&w.

true,

I have joined benefits and work but find the site huge to use.

I wasn't meaning to be critical of people doing their best to get by, and my comment wasn't aimed at any particular person.

Miss Eq, we operate in pretty much opposite times of the day, don't apologise for sleep, sleep is a wonderful salve to many things,

Sleep that knits up the ravelled sleeve of care
The death of each day's life, sore labour's bath
Balm of hurt minds, great nature's second course,
Chief nourisher in life's feast.

thank you for your posts which I will study tomorrow.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Not pregnant and only dying at the same speed as everyone else. Thank you for your input, I realise that I have reached "overwrought" not a nice place to be.



true,

I have joined benefits and work but find the site huge to use.

I wasn't meaning to be critical of people doing their best to get by, and my comment wasn't aimed at any particular person.

Miss Eq, we operate in pretty much opposite times of the day, don't apologise for sleep, sleep is a wonderful salve to many things,

Sleep that knits up the ravelled sleeve of care
The death of each day's life, sore labour's bath
Balm of hurt minds, great nature's second course,
Chief nourisher in life's feast.

thank you for your posts which I will study tomorrow.

B&W site certainly is a bit busy on the eyes and takes a bit of practice to get used to figuring out where everything is but it's an excellent site