crossthebreeze
Well-Known Member
Great news!
Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support
- Thread starter Zabo
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Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
Fair shout! Well battled both of you.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Edit -Ignore. 13 year old nephew got my phone.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Sorry, haven't been around much. No, they can't take Toggle's support as meaning you require no support. Toggle's support cannot be guaranteed, therefore to use it as a reason to deny you DLA/PIP is illogical.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Anyone who's been through the ESA medical bollocks recently - how long did you wait for an assessment date after sending the Capability for Work form back?
It's been seven months now and I've heard nothing
Support worker phoned to rearrange a "work coach" appointment and they couldn't even understand why I'd been asked to come in now; I was only put in the WRAG until August 2017 at my last assessment...
It's been seven months now and I've heard nothing
Support worker phoned to rearrange a "work coach" appointment and they couldn't even understand why I'd been asked to come in now; I was only put in the WRAG until August 2017 at my last assessment...
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I would think so, but I am no expert.
Sorry WouldBe, I'm not sure.
Went to that "work coach" appointment: apparently there's a note on the computer system from 2016 saying something about putting me in the Support group. I was put in the WRAG after my 2016 medical (the report is so full of ridiculous lies, my support worker couldn't stop laughing when he read it) and all the letters and payments I've received since are for WRAG rates. But apparently I should be in the Support group and no one knows why I'm not, or why I've heard nothing since returning an ESA50 seven and a half months agoAnyone who's been through the ESA medical bollocks recently - how long did you wait for an assessment date after sending the Capability for Work form back?
It's been seven months now and I've heard nothing
WouldBe
Dislicksick
No it means they have had a look and decided I can't appeal it. Only options now are to have it set aside or take it to the high court.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
No it means they have had a look and decided I can't appeal it. Only options now are to have it set aside or take it to the high court.
So why request the file then?
WouldBe
Dislicksick
No idea.
So why request the file then?
A "new decision or ... rehearing" according to this (my bold) from here -
I'm not clear on the process for asking for a FTT decision to be set aside after you've applied to both tiers for an UT appeal and been turned down by both, though.
This really seems like something you need proper expert help with
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Thanks for that. Nice to see I could have gotten legal aid to go to the UT not that anyone round my way has advised me of this.A "new decision or ... rehearing" according to this (my bold) from here -
I'm not clear on the process for asking for a FTT decision to be set aside after you've applied to both tiers for an UT appeal and been turned down by both, though.
This really seems like something you need proper expert help with
That gives a few more ideas of grounds to appeal. Not sure what natural justice is though. Thanks for that. Nice to see I could have gotten legal aid to go to the UT not that anyone round my way has advised me of this.
I've seen that explained somewhere, will have a look when I'm not out in the rain.
Possibly no one round your way does UT PIP appeals on legal aid, rather than you just not being told? (I'm not sure where "round your way" is)
It's all fucking bollocks.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
I've looked up natural justice. Basically it says they can't show bias which they clearly have done by ignoring evidence by specialists and also 'no man can judge his own case' which means the judge shouldn't have reviewed his own decision as to whether it could go to an upper tribunal. So it looks like the tribunal has broken natural justice 3-4 times. Some of those points I have already raised yet the upper tribunal judge doesn't appear to have picked up on them so it looks like it needs to be spelled out s l o w l y so the idiot gets what I'm on about. It also looks like the tribunal have missed out communication problems as I'm clearly having problems getting my point across.
I've looked up natural justice. Basically it says they can't show bias which they clearly have done by ignoring evidence by specialists and also 'no man can judge his own case' which means the judge shouldn't have reviewed his own decision as to whether it could go to an upper tribunal. So it looks like the tribunal has broken natural justice 3-4 times. Some of those points I have already raised yet the upper tribunal judge doesn't appear to have picked up on them so it looks like it needs to be spelled out s l o w l y so the idiot gets what I'm on about. It also looks like the tribunal have missed out communication problems as I'm clearly having problems getting my point across.
Fucking shitcunts. I have no idea what to suggest, other than getting on to every local and national disability / benefits advice type service until someone helps (which I'm sure you've already tried), but I really hope you get this sorted.
Worst case scenario, I think you're allowed to put in a new claim if you run out of appeal options? Would mean you lose out on backpay though and you're not guaranteed to get a different decision
E2a - was your request for a UT appeal specifically on the grounds that the FTT had made an error of law?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
WouldBe
Dislicksick
The request was made on several grounds:-Fucking shitcunts. I have no idea what to suggest, other than getting on to every local and national disability / benefits advice type service until someone helps (which I'm sure you've already tried), but I really hope you get this sorted.
Worst case scenario, I think you're allowed to put in a new claim if you run out of appeal options? Would mean you lose out on backpay though and you're not guaranteed to get a different decision
E2a - was your request for a UT appeal specifically on the grounds that the FTT had made an error of law?
1. The Gp didn't have a clue what he was on about quizzing me about a medical condition I hadn't even claimed for and for breaking the 1962 suicide act by pointing out 1 of my suicide points was right outside the front door of the court.
2. The occupational therapist didn't have a clue what she was on about recommending aids that couldn't possibly work and trying to claim that by being able to remember the price of fags and the change from a tenner meant I was able to financially budget OK
3. The tribunal ignored the recording of the ATOS assessment which proves that the HCP was lying.
4. The tribunal ignored the DWP work psychology report that proves that my memory is shit (1 of the tests put me in the bottom 6% of the population) yet apparently my memory is OK. They also ignored the point that I need prompting to be able to remember things fully which is a breach of the disability discrimination act.
However most of those points and other points show the tribunal was biased towards the HCP's evidence and therefore shows they have breached natural justice so I will be pointing this out very clearly to the upper tribunal judge. Of course if the upper tribunal judge decided to carry on ignoring the facts the that will make him/her an accomplice to the tribunals illegal activities.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Yes I'm fine. Although after receiving the letter from the upper tribunal I very nearly stepped in front of a lorry even though I didn't feel all that depressed. Yet the tribunal seem to think my depression isn't bad enough.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
MateYes I'm fine. Although after receiving the letter from the upper tribunal I very nearly stepped in front of a lorry even though I didn't feel all that depressed. Yet the tribunal seem to think my depression isn't bad enough.
Bastards
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
Last May I was awarded £55 per week standard daily living for PIP, with nothing for mobility. Previously I had been getting £96 per week DLA. Had it not been for the encouraging stats and info at benefitsandwork.co.uk I probably would have accepted this cut. My conditions are very variable. Some people tell me they are "all in the mind". I can never provide any evidence to show what my bad days are like, or the number of bad days I have per year. Nobody who reads my claim forms and doctor's notes can ever be sure whether I am exaggerating to get a bit more money. I haven't seen any specialists for several years, so the only thing which supports my claim is a brief letter from my GP and a very long history in my notes.
But I appealed. The nub of my argument was that the Atosser only asked about the week before the hearing. I'd had a good week, and said so. The rules say that the claim should be based on the 12 months prior to the examination, and that if your bad days account for more than half of that period, your award is based on the assumption that every day is bad. The Atosser pretty much assumed that all my days are good. In my appeal document I pointed out this mistake. The DM's letter rejecting my appeal didn't even address this point. I don't understand how they can make such an obvious, silly mistake and then offer no defence of their argument when they reject the appeal. But the DWP world seems like Alice in Wonderland. Anyway, the judge awarded me enhanced daily living and enhanced mobility, £141 per week until 2021 and back-dated to May. He or she did this a few hours before my hearing, on the basis of my GP's notes and my appeal form. Then I got a text as I was about to set out for the hearing, telling me I needn't bother to attend. Eight months of stress about facing the panel...and two hours before the hearing it's called off!
I wonder what this says about the appeal process? Maybe the judge is fed up with the delays which claimants are subjected to and the performance of the DWP and Atos? Does he believe that the DWP are knowingly making unjust awards and hoping to scare people into not appealing? Maybe he just looks at the papers and says 'this looks like yet another DWP/Atos arm-twisting exercise, there's no need to waste the time of the panel and the claimant with a hearing.'
The lesson I would draw is that claimants who think their award is incorrect should not be discouraged by the DWP tactics and the intimidating paperwork and the months of waiting. The tribunals are staffed by good, honest people who want justice. (Well, that's been my experience. I doubt that WouldBe would agree...his/her experience sounds so traumatic and disturbing.)
The really surprising thing about my claim was that this was my second hearing date. I didn't show up for the first one because I failed to open the appointment letter. The judge didn't penalise me for this. He or she just adjourned the hearing and asked for my GP's notes. But he also wrote to warn me that my points might be reduced because the DWP had not substantiated the number of points they had given me for a particular activity. I hadn't noticed this either, but when I read the award letter properly I realised that the decision maker had given me one more point than the Atos assessor. The DM hadn't explained this - it looked like a simple error. And if the DM had not made that error I would not even have got standard daily living!
I hope this will encourage other people who have conditions which are difficult to prove. Just read all the info and advice at B&W - it could make such a difference to your life.
eta: I should have added, don't try to make a claim without help. It's just too complicated and confusing, especially if it gets to the Appeal stage. To me it seems like having to do an A level in a new subject with just the books and no lessons. In a civilised society you wouldn't expect the sick to be forced to sit an A level so they can afford food and rent. But these are the times we live in. DWP ministers past and present should be tried for Mass Manslaughter and Mass GBH.
But I appealed. The nub of my argument was that the Atosser only asked about the week before the hearing. I'd had a good week, and said so. The rules say that the claim should be based on the 12 months prior to the examination, and that if your bad days account for more than half of that period, your award is based on the assumption that every day is bad. The Atosser pretty much assumed that all my days are good. In my appeal document I pointed out this mistake. The DM's letter rejecting my appeal didn't even address this point. I don't understand how they can make such an obvious, silly mistake and then offer no defence of their argument when they reject the appeal. But the DWP world seems like Alice in Wonderland. Anyway, the judge awarded me enhanced daily living and enhanced mobility, £141 per week until 2021 and back-dated to May. He or she did this a few hours before my hearing, on the basis of my GP's notes and my appeal form. Then I got a text as I was about to set out for the hearing, telling me I needn't bother to attend. Eight months of stress about facing the panel...and two hours before the hearing it's called off!
I wonder what this says about the appeal process? Maybe the judge is fed up with the delays which claimants are subjected to and the performance of the DWP and Atos? Does he believe that the DWP are knowingly making unjust awards and hoping to scare people into not appealing? Maybe he just looks at the papers and says 'this looks like yet another DWP/Atos arm-twisting exercise, there's no need to waste the time of the panel and the claimant with a hearing.'
The lesson I would draw is that claimants who think their award is incorrect should not be discouraged by the DWP tactics and the intimidating paperwork and the months of waiting. The tribunals are staffed by good, honest people who want justice. (Well, that's been my experience. I doubt that WouldBe would agree...his/her experience sounds so traumatic and disturbing.)
The really surprising thing about my claim was that this was my second hearing date. I didn't show up for the first one because I failed to open the appointment letter. The judge didn't penalise me for this. He or she just adjourned the hearing and asked for my GP's notes. But he also wrote to warn me that my points might be reduced because the DWP had not substantiated the number of points they had given me for a particular activity. I hadn't noticed this either, but when I read the award letter properly I realised that the decision maker had given me one more point than the Atos assessor. The DM hadn't explained this - it looked like a simple error. And if the DM had not made that error I would not even have got standard daily living!
I hope this will encourage other people who have conditions which are difficult to prove. Just read all the info and advice at B&W - it could make such a difference to your life.
eta: I should have added, don't try to make a claim without help. It's just too complicated and confusing, especially if it gets to the Appeal stage. To me it seems like having to do an A level in a new subject with just the books and no lessons. In a civilised society you wouldn't expect the sick to be forced to sit an A level so they can afford food and rent. But these are the times we live in. DWP ministers past and present should be tried for Mass Manslaughter and Mass GBH.
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BCBlues
Lend us a Twenner
Well done David Clapson for sticking it out.
I totally agree that the benefitsandwork site is superb, not just in providing info and guidance but in giving and reinstoring confidence and self esteem along the way.
It's a very tiresome and draining process (purposely without a drain of doubt) and it's always great to hear when someone has deservedly pulled through it. It gives others hope and initiative.
This thread also,it has to be said, is a great source of info and advice, it's U75 at it's best.
I totally agree that the benefitsandwork site is superb, not just in providing info and guidance but in giving and reinstoring confidence and self esteem along the way.
It's a very tiresome and draining process (purposely without a drain of doubt) and it's always great to hear when someone has deservedly pulled through it. It gives others hope and initiative.
This thread also,it has to be said, is a great source of info and advice, it's U75 at it's best.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
It's been going for some years now too - don't expect anyone to read the whole thing but there is a lot of support and help here.
Thanks to David Clapson for posting his encouraging post (sorry you had to go through it though) and well done on getting an award until 2021.
Thanks to David Clapson for posting his encouraging post (sorry you had to go through it though) and well done on getting an award until 2021.
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