Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[Celyn]

Well, I'm playing at "ignore it for now", but I know I must do clever stuff soon. So we'll have to encourage each other. Or jump off a bridge. I do agree very much about the terror and stress of the brown envelopes.

 

[WouldBe]

Well, I'm playing at "ignore it for now", but I know I must do clever stuff soon. So we'll have to encourage each other.

I know it's hard but it's better to bite the bullet and get it done ASAP as you only have a month to get it in, same with the tribunal appeal, and I don't think they let you have an extension.

I do agree very much about the terror and stress of the brown envelopes.

I had a brown envelope arrive 2 weeks ago and dreaded opening it. When I finally did it was from PC world wanting to know if I wanted to buy extended cover for my computer monitor.

 

[equationgirl]

Good on you, they are obviously not relenting, why should we?

I'm currently working on a letter to the Nursing Medical Council regarding the "nurse" who included over 20 lies and inaccuracies in his WCA report, asking that he be retrained or even struck off as not fit for practice.

I'd ask that he be investigated with a view to misconduct - if you give them the lesser option of a retraining recommendation then that's an easy way out. Check what Pauline cafferkey (I think that's her name, nurse who caught ebola) got accused of, she had to go before a panel for something like fraud and misrepresentation.

 

[equationgirl]

Also, I'm happy to help write letters if people want. Pm me if so.

Did anyone see the guardian article about the former dwp worker who turned their experiences into a play? They were made redundant and got threatened with sanctions if they were late to appointments. Sadly they were very much on the side of the claimants but were bullied into sanctions by managers.

 

[Jackobi]

Does anyone have any tips on doing a mandatory reconsideration as i have only done one when I got sanctioned last year. Can't even find the motivation to pick up a pen at the moment.

This is a template for a Mandatory Reconsideration notification to get you started, don't forget that you should make sure the DWP receive the MR letter within one month from the date of the decision letter.

https://www.leicester.gov.uk/media/178163/mandatory-reconsideration-request.pdf

 

[ViolentPanda]

I did "belt and braces" with my MR request. I sent it by post (signed for), and phoned them up as well, telling them I wanted an MR, and that I'd sent in a written request.

 

[Celyn]

I failed to do it "signed for" but that's good advice for Calamity1971 if she(he?) can get out to a post office. Actually, it was an annoying phone conversation, involving me being told "that's a fail" because the DWP person said I had got my own phone number wrong, but I suppose the whole belt and braces approach is best if you can handle talking to them.

 

[chainsawjob]

Did anyone see the guardian article about the former dwp worker who turned their experiences into a play? They were made redundant and got threatened with sanctions if they were late to appointments. Sadly they were very much on the side of the claimants but were bullied into sanctions by managers.

Think I heard her interviewed on the radio. Good to hear that perspective from the (former) inside.

Good luck to all those dealing with MR or appeals. Give them what for, they're in the wrong, you're in the right.

 

[friendofdorothy]

How much money is the govt actually saving by relentlessly pursuing sick people like this? when they take into account paying Atos or who ever and the cost of all the appeals surely theres not much of a saving to the public purse?

Read today that the results tax of pursuing over 6000 the richest people for not paying tax has only resulted in wait for it -1- yes one success. Do we hear daily of rich geting away with cheating the revenue stories, are there whole tv series about rich-life-avoiding-tax and tax-evasion-avenue? Grrrr it makes me so angry.

Rant over.

Best wishes to all on this thread going through this nasty ATOS shit. Don't let the bastards get you down.

 

[WouldBe]

Got my appeal letter in with a day to spare after seeing a solicitor. Let's see how this goes.

 

[equationgirl]

Fingers crossed WouldBe x

 

[Celyn]

Now I have been told the Mandatory Reconsideration was refused, so I did send an appeal. (even properly recorded delivery this time, YAY!)

Question is:

I gather that while appealing, one can, instead of JSA, claim ESA at the Assessment rate. Clearly that makes no difference in terms of money, but I think there's a reason why this is a Good Thing. Is it that it's less hassle from the Jobcentre while waiting for the final appeal result?

Last time I saw a Job Coach, I said my Mandatory Reconsideration had been refused and I would appeal, and I understood that the thing to do was to claim ESA at the assessment rate in the meantime. She said, "no, that doesn't happen any more. You can't do that." I was fairly sure one *can*, so I asked whether that had changed recently, and she said that had been the case "for a long time now".

I do suspect she might be wrong about this and my next appointment with Jobcentre person is on Thursday, and I hope to be able to tell her "ha, now that whatsit office has received my appeal letter, I would like to claim ESA at the assessment rate pending appeal."

Does anyone know the facts of this, please?

 

[xsunnysuex]

Ok I read it wrong. You have already had the MR. Yes you can now claim assessment rate.

 

[Celyn]

Yep. I did a Mandatory Reconsideration, and the result of that was "No, Ms Bloggs, tough luck, decision stands, but you can take it to tribunal if you really want to". Then at appointment in Jobcentre, I said I would like to claim ESA at Assessment rate while awaiting result of appeal, and she said that wasn't possible.

She was wrong, I think - as you say, once appeal has been accepted, I can then claim ESA at assessment rate. Well she was right in that it had been *sent* then, but I had no notification that it had been received, but wrong in saying that such a thing simply did not happen.

Thank you, xsunnysuex! And I was also in a phone queue with Citz Advice, which just got answered, and a very nice man says once the appeal has been received/accepted, I should inform the Jobcentre I want to claim ESA at assessment rate, and he says there is no form I need to fill in, but simply to inform Jobcentre. Happy news, and I hope they will agree that's right, 'cos I don't want extra fuss with them.

 

[Celyn]

Haha, xsunnysuex, just as I was posting a reply, you changed yours! Thank you SO much for replying and being so helpful. I wonder if Job Coach was just feeling overworked that day, or was perchance deliberately being a nuisance. Just one of the mysteries of life, I suppose, but I do tend to feel strongly that if official person is not completely sure of their facts, they ought not to bluff, but to say they are not certain but will check.

I'm probably going to have to learn not to be meek with Jobcentre, but to keep my cynical head on at all times.

 

[xsunnysuex]

I should learn to read things properly before I reply to posts lol. I would send in writing though that you want to claim assessment rate. And send it recorded .
Or better still take it to the job centre and get them to photo copy it. And stamp it.
I don't trust the dwp one bit.

 

[Celyn]

Hmm, you're probably right. It seems that simply "telling" them is meant to be enough, but you're probably right about putting it in writing, as that last Jobcentre person I saw was kind of not-good at listening to what I said and instead replying to things I hadn't said. And it's hard to guess whether that is accidental or deliberate sneakiness.

Aargh! Oh well, I just tell myself I will feel very good once my Thursday appointment with them is over and I needn't see them for presumably, another 2 weeks.

 

[Celyn]

...
I don't trust the dwp one bit.

Or half a bit, or a microbit, nanobit or picobit,

 

[equationgirl]

Totally agree with this Celyn do it by letter, get them to stamp it received (or whatever they do) then photocopy it. That way your copy will show that your letter was received by the jobcentre.

Sorry the mandatory reconsideration was refused

 

[Jackobi]

She was wrong, I think - as you say, once appeal has been accepted, I can then claim ESA at assessment rate.

DWP will not usually pay the assessment rate until it has confirmation from the Courts and Tribunals Service that an appeal has been lodged. The CTS will send you a letter stating that your appeal has been received, then it will notify JCP.

It is usually quicker to take the letter to JCP yourself rather than wait for the CTS to send it to them. As soon as you have received the letter, take it to JCP and your ESA should then be paid at the assessment rate.

 

[WouldBe]

Sorry the mandatory reconsideration was refused

Seems to be standard practice these days. Sister recently put in a mandatory reconsideration for PIP through a solicitor and still got 0 points.

 

[Jackobi]

Seems to be standard practice these days.

It seems to be an intentional delaying tactic designed to fuck people over, I haven't heard of one successful mandatory reconsideration.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It seems to be an intentional delaying tactic designed to fuck people over, I haven't heard of one successful mandatory reconsideration.

Me neither.
Ridiculously, and revealing of how biased the "Mandatory Reconsideration" process can be, the tribunal received exactly the same evidence from me as did the decision-maker who dealt with my MR, and yet the tribunal not only found for me, they also illustrated how I qualified for significantly more points than the DWP awarded me.

 

[equationgirl]

I think you're right sadly

It seems to be an intentional delaying tactic designed to fuck people over, I haven't heard of one successful mandatory reconsideration.

 

[existentialist]

It seems to be an intentional delaying tactic designed to fuck people over, I haven't heard of one successful mandatory reconsideration.

I think you're right sadly

Has anyone done an FOI request to DWP on this? How many mandatory reconsiderations go against the initial decision?

ETA: Ah. Answered my own question. First figures on ESA mandatory reconsideration ‘show it is just a delaying tactic’

 

[StoneRoad]

MR is just another hoop the DWP have devised, trying to get claimants to "give up" so 'the figures' look better and they can pretend to be saving money on the welfare budget.

And all the more reason for us (urban) to help people with their claims as much as we can.

As hard as it is, keep on keeping on and "Nil Carborundum illigetitimus" (sorry for the crap spelling) ...

 

[existentialist]

MR is just another hoop the DWP have devised, trying to get claimants to "give up" so 'the figures' look better and they can pretend to be saving money on the welfare budget.

Yep. What's so frustrating is that it seems so difficult for people to recognise that. On a thread like this, we're mostly preaching to the choir - but for others to be bothered, they have to be interested enough to see it as a problem, too.

And that's difficult, because the last couple or three governments have pulled a blinder in harnessing the resentment and perhaps even envy of the general population towards people on benefits - the narrative that they're somehow just freeloading off the rest of us is pervasive, and seemingly resistant to any kind of attempt to introduce any facts or reality into it.

 

[StoneRoad]

I agree with that ! and spend a certain amount of time trying to convert more members to our choir.
But, as you say, the gov't has been very carefully exploiting a particular aspect of the "them and us" narrative. In my opinion, the thatcherite greed one coupled with "there is no such thing as society" theme.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I agree with that ! and spend a certain amount of time trying to convert more members to our choir.
But, as you say, the gov't has been very carefully exploiting a particular aspect of the "them and us" narrative. In my opinion, the thatcherite greed one coupled with "there is no such thing as society" theme.

The "no such thing as society" flourishes in an environment where social mobility is fluid - people tend to think "if I can pull myself up by my bootstraps, so can everyone else". Create a society where the have-nots consistently become poorer and more alienated, where social mobility barely happens, and social solidarities become more and more important, and the potential for a "flowering" of solidaristic communities becomes far more likely.

 

[Libertad]

social solidarities become more and more important, and the potential for a "flowering" of solidaristic communities becomes far more likely.

Yes to that brother.