Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[tufty79]

well i had my interview for PIP, got 16 points i got 20 points a year ago and i`m worse
i can hardly walk,i`m in pain but the nasty ATOS people, who are so two faced
tried stich me up on the points, im becoming an expert at this ...hopefully I
can resolve it with a phone interview i had last thursday i really hope the dwp have
more common sense and award me the points i need.

Best of luck xx

 

[passenger]

Best of luck xx

thanks, trust me its not been easy
i broke my leg in 7 places inc tibia and fibia and had to where a
metal frame with pins in it called an lazarus frame still in pain cant work

 

[friendofdorothy]

thanks, trust me its not been easy
i broke my leg in 7 places inc tibia and fibia and had to where a
metal frame with pins in it called an lazarus frame still in pain cant work

ow! I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[equationgirl]

Best of luck passenger hope it goes OK.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Grrrh! makes me wonder what sort of training or experience those job centre staff have. They have no idea of the stress they can cause with those letters. Perhaps they are on some sort of bonus scheme, so many £s everytime they can bully an ill person out of benefits.

It's a bit more insidious than that. Most front-line "advisors" are micro-managed, right down to being set "targets" that the DWP refuse to acknowledge as targets for sending out "invitations" for work-related interviews, and for sanctioning claimants who don't toe the line. If you don't meet the targets, your boss disciplines you, and within a short period you find yourself on the other side of the desk.
It's all totally fucked up.

 

[passenger]

That`s so true, my back to work lot, tell me all sorts of things
would not say to much but nice rewards wait for them if not
there down the road two year contracts says it all

 

[Libertad]

The vermin are planning to abolish the WRAG.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33347511

Plans to scrap part of the UK's main sickness benefit are being considered, a leaked Whitehall paper suggests.

It describes the Employment and Support Allowance as a "passive" benefit which does not "incentivise" people to find a job, and proposes abolishing the work-related activity group (WRAG) category.

If scrapped, weekly payments would drop nearly £30 from £102.15, bringing it in line with Jobseeker's Allowance.

I'm in the WRAG because they have, incorrectly, stuck me there instead of in the Support Group. I have ME, Fibromyalgia and Osteoarthritis following 144 weeks of Interferon punishment. I'm also clinically depressed. This is really going to help isn't it?

 

[Libertad]

Advice please.
Should I ask for a new ESA 50 or a PIP application first? I'm shitting myself here, looks like they're planning to cut Housing Benefit as well and we need every penny we can get. I'm physically and mentally fucked and if I have to start all this job seeking shit there is a very high possibility that I will kill one of those fucking JCP cunts and that's not just idle Urbspiel. Fuck the vermin, fuck the DWP and fuck the PCS as well.

 

[wtfftw]

I don't know Libertad fucking anal prolapses the lot of them. It's not happened yet tho.


Thanks for the support on the other page. My assessor called in sick* so my medical is postponed. I'm hoping I get to wait another year or so (which is how long it's been since I filled in the ib50 out whichever the questionnaire is).



*yep.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Advice please.
Should I ask for a new ESA 50 or a PIP application first? I'm shitting myself here, looks like they're planning to cut Housing Benefit as well and we need every penny we can get. I'm physically and mentally fucked and if I have to start all this job seeking shit there is a very high possibility that I will kill one of those fucking JCP cunts and that's not just idle Urbspiel. Fuck the vermin, fuck the DWP and fuck the PCS as well.

Get a new ESA50 and a PIP application form (but only do the PIP form if you don't already have a DLA award). The forms cover a lot of the same ground, and the DWP will cross-reference them to "fact-check" your claims, so applying for both at the same time reduces the possibility of them finding contradictions (which they will hunt for) in the applications. Also, it'll probably be slightly less nerve-wrenching/psychologically costly to do both at the same time.
As ever, any help and/or support you need with the paperwork, just ask.

 

[RedDragon]

Both my husband and I had been put into to support group ESA, when we married the claim became a joint one in his name, when he died on the 1st of June the claim was shut down and I was told to make a new ESA claim; right from scratch needing to supply sick notes awaiting an assessment. And the added delight of being called in this afternoon for a 'return to work' interview.

 

[Libertad]

Thanks both. I've calmed down a bit now. My cortisol levels must have gone through the roof, I'll pay for that later eh ViolentPanda? I've try to stay clear of the DWP because any contact with them enrages me so much.
I've never appealed my WRAG decision because I thought that they might stick me on JSA and my last DLA award has lapsed because I was too ill to handle filling out another form. DWP win win eh? Cunts.

My claim is not about the money, we're used to not having any. I just want them to leave me alone especially now as we're engaged in a major battle with Children's Services over their lack of support regarding a two year old that we've given a home to under a Special Guardianship Order. I just can't fight on too many fronts.

I've got a letter from the Rheumatologist confirming my diagnosis for the diseases outlined above and a letter from the Podiatrist confirming that I have an inoperable broken Navicular in my left foot, an old tree surgery injury which makes walking incredibly painful. My left hand, I'm left-handed, is fucked through arthritis and so writing is nigh on impossible and I've had an arthroscopy on my right knee though both my knees are fucked. I've got arthritis in both hands and all my major joints are riddled with it really.
I can't get any pain relief because I've got Stevens-Johnson Syndrome and I'm allergic to NSAIDs. Co-Codamol in the quantity that I'd need to take gives me constipation.(Too much information.)

Any part of my body that isn't suffering with arthritis is generally useless due to the ME and if that isn't affecting me then the Fibromyalgia gets the rest. Tbh it's impossible for me to tell where one condition stops and the next starts. Then there's the depression, symptomatic and inherent in the diseases, constant exhaustion, lack of sleep, memory lapses and problems with vision, hearing and concentration.

Should I be/am I likely to be put in the Support Group? I seriously doubt it, these are all somatic manifestations so far as the DWP are concerned aren't they? I reckon we're fucked and we'll have problems paying the rent soon let alone anything else. Angry? You bet your fucking life I'm angry.

 

[Libertad]

Both my husband and I had been put into to support group ESA, when we married the claim became a joint one in his name, when he died on the 1st of June the claim was shut down and I was told to make a new ESA claim; right from scratch needing to supply sick notes awaiting an assessment. And the added delight of being called in this afternoon for a 'return to work' interview.

Ffs. I feel for you mate. More strength in your general direction.

 

[Greebo]

<snip> Angry? You bet your fucking life I'm angry.

Angry? Good, at least that's energy turned outwards.

As for the cocodamol, if you haven't already done so, I recommend asking for the same dosage as you've already tried, but in an effervescent base (this can be prescribed). It tastes vile, but more of it gets taken up before it hits your gut, so there's less constipation (as ViolentPanda will tell you). If you've already tried it, and it still didn't suit you, you have my sympathy.

 

[Greebo]

BTW Libertad VP will get back to you shortly, he's just taking his tablets. Physically you're in a visibly worse state than him, so you should get support group ESA, but that's a big "should". It's really not about diagnosis, it's about the impact it has on your life.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Thanks both. I've calmed down a bit now. My cortisol levels must have gone through the roof, I'll pay for that later eh ViolentPanda? I've try to stay clear of the DWP because any contact with them enrages me so much.

Understandable. I've known many claimants with the same problem, or the linked one of contact causing or aggravating depression.

I've never appealed my WRAG decision because I thought that they might stick me on JSA and my last DLA award has lapsed because I was too ill to handle filling out another form. DWP win win eh? Cunts.

Unfortunately, as I've said on this thread and similar many times before, the DWP rely on people either fearing a worse decision, or being too exhausted.
This just makes me more bloody-minded about helping anyone I can to get what they're entitled to.

My claim is not about the money, we're used to not having any. I just want them to leave me alone especially now as we're engaged in a major battle with Children's Services over their lack of support regarding a two year old that we've given a home to under a Special Guardianship Order. I just can't fight on too many fronts.

Understood, hence the offer of any help I can give w/r/t the forms.

I've got a letter from the Rheumatologist confirming my diagnosis for the diseases outlined above and a letter from the Podiatrist confirming that I have an inoperable broken Navicular in my left foot, an old tree surgery injury which makes walking incredibly painful. My left hand, I'm left-handed, is fucked through arthritis and so writing is nigh on impossible and I've had an arthroscopy on my right knee though both my knees are fucked. I've got arthritis in both hands and all my major joints are riddled with it really.

Possibly a daft question, but is it possible to get referred for a full-body MRI? One of the strongest pieces of evidence Greebo and I deployed for my dad's attendance allowance claim was an MRI analysis that basically detailed all his problems, from head to toe. It was pretty exhaustive w/r/t musculo-skeletal damage, and having everything on the one report made it a lot less refutable* than the individual reports from different consultants that we had.

*i.e. not actually refutable, but by DWP standards - so, spelling mistakes etc.

I can't get any pain relief because I've got Stevens-Johnson Syndrome and I'm allergic to NSAIDs. Co-Codamol in the quantity that I'd need to take gives me constipation.(Too much information.)

Solid co-codamol, or soluble?

Any part of my body that isn't suffering with arthritis is generally useless due to the ME and if that isn't affecting me then the Fibromyalgia gets the rest. Tbh it's impossible for me to tell where one condition stops and the next starts. Then there's the depression, symptomatic and inherent in the diseases, constant exhaustion, lack of sleep, memory lapses and problems with vision, hearing and concentration.

Worth getting a consult on your memory/concentration issues, if only because (due to my own experience) a "memory clinic" consultation will look for organic physiological causes as well as psychological and medicinal causes, and design coping strategies for you that aren't a panacea, but do help somewhat. My own memory is still about 20% below the standard baseline (and improvement from 30% below), and I still get bouts of really annoying word-blindness, but it doesn't freak me out the way it used to.

Should I be/am I likely to be put in the Support Group?

Should you be? Yes. On the basis of your physical arthritic issues alone, you should have scored the requisite 15 points.
Are you likely to be put in the support group?
IME it all depends on how you word what you write on the form. It's the hardest part because you have to make sure you leave no ambiguity, and sometimes that means writing exhaustively about the effects of a particular issue.
Let's take for example your foot:
It's not enough to talk about what the actual issue is, about the pain and about any treatment. You have to tie it into your other issues, so "as I also have severely arthritic knees (as detailed in Q...), walking, already painful from the get-go, becomes almost impossible due to the added pain from and mobility impairment to my knees. I cannot walk or stand for ANY length of time without pain. I likewise cannot sit for ANY length of time without pain. It is constant, and exacerbation of pain levels cause me physical and cognitive fatigue over and above what my medication and other conditions already cause".
It's hard labour, but you don't have to go it alone.
My last ESA50 contained (IIRC) about 15 additional pages of info, not including any medical reports.

I seriously doubt it, these are all somatic manifestations so far as the DWP are concerned aren't they? I reckon we're fucked and we'll have problems paying the rent soon let alone anything else. Angry? You bet your fucking life I'm angry.

The DWP can claim your symptoms to be somatic manifestations as much as they like. Unless they can prove that in your individual case there is no other possible or probable cause (which there are - multiple ones) then their claims are just so many beer farts.

I'm pleased you're angry, though. Anger is good, as long as it's directed at those who deserve it. Anger gives you some strength to fight back[/quote]

 

[toggle]

Thanks both. I've calmed down a bit now. My cortisol levels must have gone through the roof, I'll pay for that later eh ViolentPanda? I've try to stay clear of the DWP because any contact with them enrages me so much.
I've never appealed my WRAG decision because I thought that they might stick me on JSA and my last DLA award has lapsed because I was too ill to handle filling out another form. DWP win win eh? Cunts.

My claim is not about the money, we're used to not having any. I just want them to leave me alone especially now as we're engaged in a major battle with Children's Services over their lack of support regarding a two year old that we've given a home to under a Special Guardianship Order. I just can't fight on too many fronts.

I've got a letter from the Rheumatologist confirming my diagnosis for the diseases outlined above and a letter from the Podiatrist confirming that I have an inoperable broken Navicular in my left foot, an old tree surgery injury which makes walking incredibly painful. My left hand, I'm left-handed, is fucked through arthritis and so writing is nigh on impossible and I've had an arthroscopy on my right knee though both my knees are fucked. I've got arthritis in both hands and all my major joints are riddled with it really.
I can't get any pain relief because I've got Stevens-Johnson Syndrome and I'm allergic to NSAIDs. Co-Codamol in the quantity that I'd need to take gives me constipation.(Too much information.)

Any part of my body that isn't suffering with arthritis is generally useless due to the ME and if that isn't affecting me then the Fibromyalgia gets the rest. Tbh it's impossible for me to tell where one condition stops and the next starts. Then there's the depression, symptomatic and inherent in the diseases, constant exhaustion, lack of sleep, memory lapses and problems with vision, hearing and concentration.

Should I be/am I likely to be put in the Support Group? I seriously doubt it, these are all somatic manifestations so far as the DWP are concerned aren't they? I reckon we're fucked and we'll have problems paying the rent soon let alone anything else. Angry? You bet your fucking life I'm angry.

if you want help with forms, we can do.

main thing now is not only to have the diagnosies, but a record of the way they impact on your life. it isn't about how ill you are but about how you explain this.

1. diary. we do a big book of loopy. every time he does something utterly barking and dangerous, we write it down. but you need to talk about impact of symptoms, impact of treatment (or lack thereof), plus all the crazy from memory loss. write it all down. particularly any time there was any witnesses. report stuff to your gp so they can write it down and record it in letters. cause then it actualy happened according to the papertrail.

2. if you have a cooperative gp/consultant, then demand recorded home assessments. because they won't bother doing them. they will work on the info on your forms and that tends to go in your favour. and it certainly will do when you've explained each and every detail of everything. you're making them assess you on the evidence, not on an assessment where they have a computer program that will diagnose you with a mild case of amputation. if you go that route, let us do a bit of research. we can then find out exactly what your doc needs to write to achieve this. cause ti's different for eveyone. if you're loopy, making yourself sound like someone they don't want to be in the same room as is a great route.

3. the forms - they won't give you enough space. get everything separately. and i mean everything. reference to consultant's letters, side effects of meds and directly to the conditions themselves. i think minnie wrote 17 pages for her BF's. this can be written for you. eg, you can visit or you can skype me if you want a scribe for all this.

but we can help. that's a royal WE, cause there's people on this thread that can help, or potential in person help from the two of us. (cause IDK if youd want that, or if it's do-able to get to yours on public transport. you know you're welcome to bring this stuff down to us if you want/can, sure i've said where we live)

you don't have to do this on your own. cause we fucking hate this shower of shit and everyone who gets what they are entitled to rather than a load of bullshit is a small victory.

 

[toggle]

The DWP can claim your symptoms to be somatic manifestations as much as they like. Unless they can prove that in your individual case there is no other possible or probable cause (which there are - multiple ones) then their claims are just so many beer farts.

yep.

this is where the referencing comes in. any side effects of any meds, any uncommon symptoms of any condition, the effect of untreated pain. as many of your symptoms as possible related direcly to a bit of paper that says they are part of this condition. then for each and every symptom, describe the impact on you.

and 'in addition to all my broken bits, i'm going fucking crazy from the pain and lack of sleep' is additional evidence, not something they can write off. especially if you have or can create a papertrail on it.

 

[Celyn]

thanks, trust me its not been easy
i broke my leg in 7 places inc tibia and fibia and had to where a
metal frame with pins in it called an lazarus frame still in pain cant work

Yuck. That's horrible. I bet the swine love that "Lazarus" idea, though.

 

[passenger]

Yuck. That's horrible. I bet the swine love that "Lazarus" idea, though.

it was like torture, for 8 months i had at least 20 plus infections
i was on really high dose antibiotics for 5 months i did well to
keep my leg never again !... so you would think getting money from the dwp
would be easy no chance

 

[scifisam]

Libertad, I got put in the support group due to symptoms almost exactly the same as yours. Following the above on here such as insisting on a recording probably helped.

I'm nearly done with the DLA reclaim form; it's taken six weeks to fill in so far, partly because I can't write well enough to do it myself so have to wait for help.

Photocopied all my supporting evidence today, 66 pages of it. :-D Drown the bastards in paperwork!

 

[RedDragon]

Ffs. I feel for you mate. More strength in your general direction.

They terminated the interview due to my level of distress and really couldn't apologies enough for calling me in - but seemingly the rules are if both partners are in the ESA support group, should the main claimant die their widow/er has start a fresh claim and go through the whole process again from scratch.

 

[Libertad]

They terminated the interview due to my level of distress and really couldn't apologies enough for calling me in - but seemingly the rules are if both partners are in the ESA support group, should the main claimant die their widow/er has start a fresh claim and go through the whole process again from scratch.

They really are a bunch of shits aren't they.

 

[Libertad]

Thank you Greebo and ViolentPanda, toggle, scifisam .
I'm on 30mg/500mg Codeine Phosphate/Paracetomol tablets and I'm invariably up to my 8 a day limit without much appreciable pain relief and that will always lead to crippling contipation if I take that dose for two days running. I will ask for a soluble version next time I see my GP.
I know that Tramadol is sometimes offered but I've been there in the past and don't want to be taking that poison again.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Amitriptyline or any other Tricyclic?

As a general strategy perhaps I should leave asking for a new ESA50 until I'm asked to attend an assessment. I've read somewhere that they can't ask you to attend without a new ESA50 if the current one is over two years old, which it is. Atm I have a telephone interview every six months with the disability advisor at the JCP. She's sympathetic and thinks that I should be in the Support Group anyway. I'm happy with this arrangement but I shouldn't think that she'll last much longer.

If I fill in an application for DLA/PIP then it will act as supporting evidence of my disability and I'll be able to C&P/modify bits of it to go in the ESA50. The other thing about the DLA form is that you're allowed longer to fill it in. Does this sound like a plan?

 

[toggle]

have you had a referal to a pain management consultant? equationgirl has expereince of referals and i suspect she would agree that you need to be offered other options by someone who specialises in knowing and applying these options.

You can cut and paste parts of those forms, but you need to remember that there is a slightly different set of criteria for the two benefits. you need to look at how your conditions fit the criteria, and make sure you spell it out in fairly simple terms.

eg, if you're applying for dla, the simplest way onto lower rate care is being unable to reliably and safely prepare and cook a meal. if i was referencing to that criteria, i'd discuss the pain in your hands causing problems with preperation, IDK your situation personally, but i'd focus on things like being able to grip and safely use a knife, being unable to sit or stand while doing this without pain, being unable to safely lift a pan of water to drain cooked food, and memory loss causing potentially dangerous situations because you forget you've left the oven on (himself did have neighbours calling the fire brigade because of this)

for the ESA, i'd be looking more at the condition of your hands preventing you from doing common work tasks, the pain causing difficulties in using transport , and memory problems meaning you coudn't drive (?) or reliably use public transport.

the underlying conditions are the same, but the discussion of impact is different. you don't need proof of all the impact issues, but any condition you're referencing, eg, the arthritis, the memory failures need to be covered in official paperwork. every time you mention these you reference that document.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Thank you Greebo and ViolentPanda, toggle, scifisam .
I'm on 30mg/500mg Codeine Phosphate/Paracetomol tablets and I'm invariably up to my 8 a day limit without much appreciable pain relief and that will always lead to crippling contipation if I take that dose for two days running. I will ask for a soluble version next time I see my GP.

To put it in simple terms, if you're taking the 30/500 tablets, about 20-40% of the codeine is absorbed through your stomach. The rest (or part of it) is absorbed through your intestines, hence the effect on peristalsis and the inevitable constipation.
With the effervescent version, you take up 60-85% of the codeine in your stomach, leaving a lot less to cause problems in your tripes. I've been taking it for over 15 years, and I rarely have even passing constipation, thank fuck!

I know that Tramadol is sometimes offered but I've been there in the past and don't want to be taking that poison again.

It's shit. It works for a lucky few (I'm one of them, so's my dad), but way too many people react badly too it.

Does anyone have any thoughts on Amitriptyline or any other Tricyclic?

Used for neurogenic pain relief, it's got some good research behind it. I know people who've benefited from it, and it's getting a record as a better analgesic than it was an a/d. Worth trying if you're not ready to roll the dice on neurontin etc.

As a general strategy perhaps I should leave asking for a new ESA50 until I'm asked to attend an assessment. I've read somewhere that they can't ask you to attend without a new ESA50 if the current one is over two years old, which it is. Atm I have a telephone interview every six months with the disability advisor at the JCP. She's sympathetic and thinks that I should be in the Support Group anyway. I'm happy with this arrangement but I shouldn't think that she'll last much longer.

Do what's best for you. If your current course is less hassle, stay with it until you can no longer do so.

If I fill in an application for DLA/PIP then it will act as supporting evidence of my disability and I'll be able to C&P/modify bits of it to go in the ESA50. The other thing about the DLA form is that you're allowed longer to fill it in. Does this sound like a plan?

Yup. It sounds like a plan!
It's PIP now, I believe. DLA is totally off the table, and when people like me, with an "indefinite" DLA award get re-tested/reassessed, we'll be spun onto PIP too.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Photocopied all my supporting evidence today, 66 pages of it. :-D Drown the bastards in paperwork!

I can't emphasise strongly enough: Lots of paperwork means that sometimes a decision-maker will take one look at your fat folder and "pass" you, because going through your file will take them hours when they're expected to assess 2-3 files an hour.
I downloaded and printed off the patient info sheets for all my medications, and highlighted any side-effect I suffered, cross-referenced to where I'd mentioned that side-effect in my answers. It's undoubtedly time-consuming and exhausting, but it works more often than it doesn't.

 

[scifisam]

I can't emphasise strongly enough: Lots of paperwork means that sometimes a decision-maker will take one look at your fat folder and "pass" you, because going through your file will take them hours when they're expected to assess 2-3 files an hour.
I downloaded and printed off the patient info sheets for all my medications, and highlighted any side-effect I suffered, cross-referenced to where I'd mentioned that side-effect in my answers. It's undoubtedly time-consuming and exhausting, but it works more often than it doesn't.

Oooh, good idea. I'm going to copy it.

I am slightly irked that I'm having to fill in this DLA form even though when PIP gets introduced in this area I'll have to go through it all again (BUT with the questions all slightly reworded so that copying and pasting isn't possible), and that could be just a few months away.

 

[toggle]

Oooh, good idea. I'm going to copy it.

we did the same.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oooh, good idea. I'm going to copy it.

I am slightly irked that I'm having to fill in this DLA form even though when PIP gets introduced in this area I'll have to go through it all again (BUT with the questions all slightly reworded so that copying and pasting isn't possible), and that could be just a few months away.

Yes, yet another piece of fuckery intended to make claimants throw up their hands in despair and give up, murderous DWP cunts!