friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
I thought the point was to back up your case if you need to appeal or have need to complain.
Also useful if your condition affects memory.
Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support
- Thread starter Zabo
- Start date
Also useful if your condition affects memory.
Exactly this. I haven't suggested it would magically make me 'pass' the assessment, nor do i expect to be assessed on anything other than whether i fit their descriptors.
If it takes recording an assessment to make it 'fairer' or as thorough as it should be, that's a little bit... well.. wrong.
Any proof at all (even a person in the room taking notes) of what went on during the assessment is valuable - I have seen so many half truths and outright lies used by the person doing the examining that I no longer trust these people, no matter how pleasant or polite they may seem.
Sorry... just stumbled into here.
We live paranoid lives now. The more you hear about this ^^^ the less you want to communicate. And all the fuckers on the other side of the table have the advantage of "we'll be listening in and uses it to teach the next generation of fascists how to fuck you without even an iris dilation... while we monitor you and discard you like the non being that you are."
Wrong thread... sorry
It's okay. I know it's not a comfortable way to live, OTOH at least most people get at least a year between assessments. Even so, I'm convinced that they noticeably affect the chances of people stabilising, let alone improving.
superfly101
Well-Known Member
Oh behave!
If you have to appeal the tribunal is not interested in the slightest in he said she said....
You win an appeal by stating;
I fit descriptor a, b, c & d because......
Too many people get caught up (then encouraged by others) in some hopeless crusade against a HCP and what they said/didn't say/wrote in a "report" that they forget the basics.
Yes you mention it in passing to discredit it where needed. BUT......
You have to state why you qualify giving examples.
If you have a recording/notes that shows the HCP has lied or misrepresented anything then you would have grounds to complain to the DWP and their employer about their HCP. That is a completely separate matter and although it may help discredit the evidence in the report unless you concentrate on why you meet the criteria for the benefit you will lose!
Wow... I suppose you're still too stuck up your arse still to do pro bono.
Where's the exit to this thread?
Kindly refrain from teaching me how to suck eggs, sweetie. Nobody here has said that a recording will win a claim.
It's like a flimsy lock - it keeps people honest.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You kind of miss the point that if (as has happened in a significant minority of assessment) part of the reason for a person "failing" is because the HCP hasn't done their job properly - i.e. asked questions to elicit answers with regard to how you meet the descriptors, then having proof that those questions weren't asked is important.
But carry on with your ranting about hopeless crusades, and your patronisation, why don't you?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Hmmmm. I find it interesting that they want a claimant to sign something limiting the use of a sound recording made by the claimant. From a copyright point of view, that may breach legal rights of the claimant as the copyright owner.
Anybody know a) if they ask claimant to sign two copies of the form so they have a copy for their own records and b) anybody have a copy of the form itself signed or otherwise?
Anybody know a) if they ask claimant to sign two copies of the form so they have a copy for their own records and b) anybody have a copy of the form itself signed or otherwise?
superfly101
Well-Known Member
superfly101
Well-Known Member
Tbf I've not really had a look at PIP it would seam they were allowed! Then they were not!
These folks seam to have done it https://welfaretales.wordpress.com/...-when-we-recorded-a-pip-assessment-interview/
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com holds FOI requests which might have something not published on/missing from yougov
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
We all know this, thank you.
We are not stupid and understand that a sound recording only proves what was said at a certain time, and especially if unedited. For assessment purposes it can be invaluable for claimants as they have proof of what questions were asked, what ones weren't asked and what answers were given. It also shows the assessor's attitudes towards the claimant during the assessment as there have been numerous reports of assessments inappropriately conduct not to mention bullying.
The ESA Form raises two questions :
1. It claims that due to the data protection act the claimant may only use the recording for personal, family or household reasons. This act places restrictions usually on 3rd parties for holding personal data. As it is the claimant's personal information that is being recorded, this would seem somewhat odd, after all if the claimant wants to disclose their personal information it is their right to do so.
2) The second point to note is that documents seeks to prevent publication or reproduction of the recording. assuming in this case the claimant has made the recording then they will be the copyright owner (iir, my books are at work) of that sound recording and as such has the exclusive right to do numerous things with that work including publish and reproduce it.
Usually the owner allows others to do some of these acts, for example a songwriter may let other record a version of their song, or an author licence their publisher to publish their books. To restrict a copyright owner in this way is extremely unusual, and the only examples I can think of would be if the work was disturbing or offensive (films restricted to 18 certificate) but those are really to do with copyright intersecting with other laws about pyrography, offensive publications or libel laws and I do not think any of those would likely apply in this situation. And again, it's a recording made by the claimant about the claimant. The assessor will only be asking standard questions so there is no confidential information other than the claimant's.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Oh yes, forgot the I am not a lawyer disclaimer
superfly101
Well-Known Member
Well good for you! Can you vouch for anybody casually finding this thread or just passing through?
By the way next time you can't find the official form, that is the 1st result in google, that leads to the official Government site on the subject you want..... maybe WE can find it for you?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I didn't say I couldn't find it. For your information the pain has been so bad today that for most of the day I have not been able to sit up long enough to use a computer. I can post on my phone but searching copying and pasting is a bit beyond my current capabilities. So sorry if that doesn't suit you but on this thread we help each other out if someone asks.
If you've only come onto this thread to mock or be superior then there are other threads where you can go. This thread is for supporting those through the various assessment processes.
And as already been pointed out, you posted the ESA Form, not the one for PIP which was the form I asked about.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Does being an arse come naturally to you, or have you invested in lessons?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Lessons by the looks of things.
Thank you for that link - useful stuff. Will check next week with them whether they would definitely accept that method.
Thanks equationgirl for the copyright advice - interesting stuff.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
You're welcome. I think I will look into this angle further when I go back to work later this week.
Well, i went back on tuesday. Quite a few niggling things, including the assessor telling my friend she didn't need to take notes, as she'd just be duplicating whatever he put into the system and we could request a copy of the report. Also took my ability to attend the assessment and have *a* friend (the one who came with me) as evidence that i don't have any problems whatsoever engaging with people 
He pressured me a lot to agree with statements i hadn't made, or weren't right. I'm guessing i've failed but fuckit - i'm ok with asking for a reconsideration/appeal, i think
He pressured me a lot to agree with statements i hadn't made, or weren't right. I'm guessing i've failed but fuckit - i'm ok with asking for a reconsideration/appeal, i think
(((tufty))) That's a matter of opinion, and I hope that comment was ignored. FWIW when I've been doing what your friend did, I didn't just jot down what was said, I noted actions, timekeeping, arrangement of the room, my general impression of the person's manner (including how they spoke after being told that VP lipreads, so needs to see their mouth, but doesn't require a loud voice) etc.
That bit could be disputed - it's a "not unless..." answer. If you fell out with that person, or they weren't available that day, you'd be stuffed. ie. unable to attend without a lot of distress, even if you got there and back with no noticeable physical harm.<snip>took my ability to attend the assessment and have *a* friend (the one who came with me) as evidence that i don't have any problems engaging with people
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
It may help you to know that there are reports of this type of behaviour by the assessors both on this thread and elsewhere on the Internet. Happy to help you with the appeal if you decide to go down that route x xWell, i went back on tuesday. Quite a few niggling things, including the assessor telling my friend she didn't need to take notes, as she'd just be duplicating whatever he put into the system and we could request a copy of the report. Also took my ability to attend the assessment and have *a* friend (the one who came with me) as evidence that i don't have any problems whatsoever engaging with people
He pressured me a lot to agree with statements i hadn't made, or weren't right. I'm guessing i've failed but fuckit - i'm ok with asking for a reconsideration/appeal, i think
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Well, i went back on tuesday. Quite a few niggling things, including the assessor telling my friend she didn't need to take notes, as she'd just be duplicating whatever he put into the system and we could request a copy of the report. Also took my ability to attend the assessment and have *a* friend (the one who came with me) as evidence that i don't have any problems whatsoever engaging with people
All your ability to attend the assessment with a friend shows is that you're more or less comfortable with ONE person. Anyone taking it to mean anything more than that is either stupid or engaging in wishful thinking.
Let's hope he hasn't fucked you over - if he has, you've got your recording and his report to use to pick apart any lies.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Bet the report is a pack of shite anyway thanks to that crappy software.
I fear it may be, but hope it'll be okay.
Ah yes.
The crappy software that we paid ATOS for the development costs of and then pay ATOS for using what we have paid for!
(mixture of tenses there, but you get my drift)
I'd like to know who signed the actual contract on our behalf.
Some grey civil servant ?
The crappy software that we paid ATOS for the development costs of and then pay ATOS for using what we have paid for!
(mixture of tenses there, but you get my drift)
I'd like to know who signed the actual contract on our behalf.
Some grey civil servant ?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I'd love to see the whole contract, personally, although I doubt my blood pressure would take a single reading of it.
Sorry for not responding sooner, I've been trying to ostrich a bit 
They've said i should have a decision by tomorrow or the following Friday, so should know fairly soon what's happening
Thank you all for the help, support and advices xx
She thought the assessor was just being really nice and helpful, so stopped.
Thank you - that's *hugely appreciated x
Nope, no recording - we couldn't sort the equipment.
Will let you know when it lands...
They've said i should have a decision by tomorrow or the following Friday, so should know fairly soon what's happening
Thank you all for the help, support and advices xx
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