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Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

tufty79 said:
There is also a list (from a few weeks/months back) of those who are exempted from unnotified visits - will see if I can find it later.
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From the guidance its basically those who wouldn't have capacity in some form to communicate with someone unannounced. So someone who needed an interpreter, someone who has had a stroke and cannot verbally communicate anymore etc.
 
So they have finally got me. After my recent medical I received the customary 0 points letter for the second time in as many years,
Couple of points that those with more knowledge maybe able to help with. The first being on reading through the letter explaining why I got zilch points and what my options were if I want to appeal, as I got to the last two pages I got a feeling of dejavu as I had already read this part of the letter. On closer inspection I realised that they had sent me some other poor fuckers decision letter, some chap from Ipswich some 150 miles from me. Could I make a big fuss regards to data protection that may get them off my case?

Also after the usual 45 minutes of listening to Vivaldi I finally got through and spoke with the nice lady about how to appeal, who kindly notified me that before can appeal I first have to ask for a reconsideration. Which she informed me can take anything up to six weeks to complete, although in the mean time I could apply for jobseekers with limited capacity as to what work I could do.

So spent yesterday morning being treated like cattle with a dozen other unfortunates who had committed the same crime of daring to make a new claim. After being lectured and prodded and warned that we were no longer aloud to leave the UK whilst receiving this kind gift of support from her majesty's government, I was marched along to another pen to meet with my new jobbie coach.
He immediately began to interrogate me on what action I had taken in the last week, in seeking gainful employment.
So I began by explaining that I have been volunteering for the past 15 months three days per week with my local drug and alcohol service and have also completed my first year of studies on my foundation degree course 'drug and alcohol counselling'.
Forget all that mate was his response, you will have to reduce your volunteering hours and if you cannot keep up with your studies when we find you a job, then you will have to just drop out from the course.

'Please help me somebody', surely they cannot treat me this way, I know this may just be a jobs worth who feels he now wields some power over others, but for me this is a life or death situation, I feel strong enough at the moment not to pick up again after three years of sobriety, although I'm not sure if I can manage if they continue to push me away from everything I have done towards turning the negative in my life into a positive action
 
angusmcfangus said:
Forget all that mate was his response, you will have to reduce your volunteering hours and if you cannot keep up with your studies when we find you a job, then you will have to just drop out from the course.
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Time was you could volunteer for so many hours a week without automatically compromising your claim, but the real issue is whether they look at you, with your volunteering, as an excuse to not do 'a real job', so to speak. In other words: JSA is paid on the basis of you being able to start work immediately and, more importantly, that you are available for work. So if you are seen to be using volunteering as an obstacle they can 'doubt' your claim. This of course means being sanctioned. This I think is also what he means by 'when we find you a job': that is, if you are seen to refuse a job opportunity (anything up to and including actually accepting a job offer, even though that would be between you and the employer) because of study (or volunteering), again they will 'doubt' your claim.

The system is a sick joke. Record every interaction as much as you can.
 
angusmcfangus said:
On closer inspection I realised that they had sent me some other poor fuckers decision letter, some chap from Ipswich some 150 miles from me.
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So, what was the real decision on your case? You may have bollixed yourself by signing up for JSA, thereby declaring yourself fit for work.
 
angusmcfangus said:
So they have finally got me. After my recent medical I received the customary 0 points letter for the second time in as many years,
Couple of points that those with more knowledge maybe able to help with. The first being on reading through the letter explaining why I got zilch points and what my options were if I want to appeal, as I got to the last two pages I got a feeling of dejavu as I had already read this part of the letter. On closer inspection I realised that they had sent me some other poor fuckers decision letter, some chap from Ipswich some 150 miles from me. Could I make a big fuss regards to data protection that may get them off my case?

Also after the usual 45 minutes of listening to Vivaldi I finally got through and spoke with the nice lady about how to appeal, who kindly notified me that before can appeal I first have to ask for a reconsideration. Which she informed me can take anything up to six weeks to complete, although in the mean time I could apply for jobseekers with limited capacity as to what work I could do.

So spent yesterday morning being treated like cattle with a dozen other unfortunates who had committed the same crime of daring to make a new claim. After being lectured and prodded and warned that we were no longer aloud to leave the UK whilst receiving this kind gift of support from her majesty's government, I was marched along to another pen to meet with my new jobbie coach.
He immediately began to interrogate me on what action I had taken in the last week, in seeking gainful employment.
So I began by explaining that I have been volunteering for the past 15 months three days per week with my local drug and alcohol service and have also completed my first year of studies on my foundation degree course 'drug and alcohol counselling'.
Forget all that mate was his response, you will have to reduce your volunteering hours and if you cannot keep up with your studies when we find you a job, then you will have to just drop out from the course.

'Please help me somebody', surely they cannot treat me this way, I know this may just be a jobs worth who feels he now wields some power over others, but for me this is a life or death situation, I feel strong enough at the moment not to pick up again after three years of sobriety, although I'm not sure if I can manage if they continue to push me away from everything I have done towards turning the negative in my life into a positive action
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First off, you absolutely must raise the data protection issue. farmerbarleymow is the resident expert on raising such complaints i.e. what to say, who to adress the complain to etc, so I'll ask him to pop by the thread.

Second, have you appealed your decision? Around 60% of such appeals are successful at tribunal, so I would recommend it. Check the letter to see what it says about appeals.
 
angusmcfangus said:
So they have finally got me. After my recent medical I received the customary 0 points letter for the second time in as many years,
Couple of points that those with more knowledge maybe able to help with. The first being on reading through the letter explaining why I got zilch points and what my options were if I want to appeal, as I got to the last two pages I got a feeling of dejavu as I had already read this part of the letter. On closer inspection I realised that they had sent me some other poor fuckers decision letter, some chap from Ipswich some 150 miles from me. Could I make a big fuss regards to data protection that may get them off my case?
<snip>
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Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about you being fucked around by the DWP. :(

But equationgirl is right - you have to make a formal complaint about this, as while it is certainly a clerical error, it is an unacceptable one. From the ICO website, you should raise a complaint with the organisation directly in the first instance, and as this is DWP, you should direct your complaint (using the ICO template as a guide) to whichever business unit appears to be responsible. The details are on this page.

Does the letter for the other chap have his full address on? If so, I would definitely contact him and explain what has happened (send him a copy, but keep the original for evidence while you make your complaint, but subject to what I say below*). If it contains any medical information about him, even better - that is classed as sensitive personal data and would make the security breach more serious.

You could also contact your MP if you wanted to. The press might be interested too - not just your local rag, but the one local to this other bloke.

Some Twitter feeds which could be useful to raise this in a nicely public way, which they'll loathe. Do not name the other individual on Twitter though as that might mean you are in breach of s55 as described below.

DWP Press Office @dwppressoffice
Main DWP account @DWPgovuk

* It is an offence under Section 55 of the DPA to make use of (and so on) of personal data which you are not entitled to hold, and this includes personal data which has been sent to you in error. The DWP should, once you complain, write and ask for it back. They may warn you about s55 too. You have to either return it or destroy it - you cannot legally keep it, and if you did, they could initiate proceedings in court against you.

That said, if they want it back they have to either send you a stamped addressed envelope (you shouldn't have to pay postage, as you didn't lose the data). Alternatively, you could hand it back in the local jobcentre, but in a very public way when it is busy - by loudly proclaiming that they have sent you someone else's decision notice. They wouldn't like that. ;)

Happy to take a look at your complaint before you send it if you like. PM me if you would like me to do that. :)
 
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I'd be careful writing to the other person directly. Maybe ask the CAB as to how they would deal with it.

I know it's well intentioned advice, but I fear the recepient might think YOU are taking the piss.
 
Awesome Wells said:
I'd be careful writing to the other person directly. Maybe ask the CAB as to how they would deal with it.

I know it's well intentioned advice, but I fear the recepient might think YOU are taking the piss.
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I don't think that is necessarily right.

Firstly, the other bloke has the right to know the DWP have done this, especially if the letter contains any medical information about him. Secondly, in case like this it is extremely unlikely the DWP would write to this other bloke to inform him - they would normally only do so if there was a likelihood of harm or identity theft. It is important to remember that data losses like this happen very often, due to the nature of large scale data processing, so it is accepted as an inherent risk to the business.

And thirdly, if the letter to the other bloke was sympathetic and saying 'hello, I've been sent a letter meant for you' and contained a copy of the letter, it is unlikely the recipient would think it was a piss take.

I've seen this happen a few times and in every case the recipient is grateful for being told. Angry too, as you'd expect, but grateful that someone has told them.
 
farmerbarleymow said:
I don't think that is necessarily right.

Firstly, the other bloke has the right to know the DWP have done this, especially if the letter contains any medical information about him. Secondly, in case like this it is extremely unlikely the DWP would write to this other bloke to inform him - they would normally only do so if there was a likelihood of harm or identity theft. It is important to remember that data losses like this happen very often, due to the nature of large scale data processing, so it is accepted as an inherent risk to the business.

And thirdly, if the letter to the other bloke was sympathetic and saying 'hello, I've been sent a letter meant for you' and contained a copy of the letter, it is unlikely the recipient would think it was a piss take.

I've seen this happen a few times and in every case the recipient is grateful for being told. Angry too, as you'd expect, but grateful that someone has told them.
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I agree, and a complaint should be made, this is a disgraceful situation. Just make sure it's handled correctly.
 
By the way, angusmcfangus - if you want to post about it on Twitter, I'd suggest using the Press Office account rather than the general one. This is because the media outlets will undoubtedly follow this account by default, so it is a good way to raise the issue quickly. If nothing else it will drop a nice negative turd into their shiny stream of positive glossy spin. ;)

You could say something like 'is it DWP policy to send decisions on benefits to complete strangers in a different part of the country?' If the letter does contain medical info, mention that too. :)
 
farmerbarleymow said:
Firstly, the other bloke has the right to know the DWP have done this, especially if the letter contains any medical information about him.
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I agree but perhaps it's better that the notice comes from the Information Commissioner's Office? Then they'd have confirmation that the matter was being dealt with, complete with reference numbers etc for the other person to pursue at their end.
 
Thanks for all the helpful reply's, Quartz I was aware of the implications of claiming jobseekers but there is no way we can survive on nothing for the six weeks it may take for the mandatory reconsideration process to be completed, before I can then make an appeal.

Thanks equation girl & farmerbarley regarding the breach of data protection. I had to call the office from where the information was sent from this morning about the appeal procedure regarding my claim. At the end of the conversation I told the advisor about there breach of the data protection act 1998. He seemed to take the matter seriously enough, although said it was just a simple clerical error and someone had just put someone else's details into my envelope. I told him I was not happy and was extremely concerned that someone in the Norfolk area may have received my name and address as this put myself and my family in danger if this information was to become known to the criminal fraternity in that area. He informed me that this matter would be taken seriously and that I would be contacted by telephone within three hours, although they have not called me again today!

The mistaken letter I received along with mine, only contains the fellow's name and full postal address and details saying that he has also failed his work capability assessment, although it does not give any further details. I agree and will send the fellow a copy of the letter tomorrow and make an official complaint.
Don't get me wrong I'm looking forward to getting back into paid employment and have turned my life around in many ways. I never dreamed I would be studying for a degree as an over 50s man, having left school with no qualifications and having never written an essay in my puff. I enjoy my volunteer position three days a week and I can fit my studies in around this comfortably. I just don't understand the mentality of finding me with my prolapsed disk and copd (ex welder) some workfare scheme or other shite job that could lead me back to relapse and probably death (I don't feel I have another recovery in me).
 
farmerbarleymow said:
By the way, angusmcfangus - if you want to post about it on Twitter, I'd suggest using the Press Office account rather than the general one. This is because the media outlets will undoubtedly follow this account by default, so it is a good way to raise the issue quickly. If nothing else it will drop a nice negative turd into their shiny stream of positive glossy spin. ;)

You could say something like 'is it DWP policy to send decisions on benefits to complete strangers in a different part of the country?' If the letter does contain medical info, mention that too. :)
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Thanks but I have never managed to get my head around twatter.
 
Quartz said:
I agree but perhaps it's better that the notice comes from the Information Commissioner's Office? Then they'd have confirmation that the matter was being dealt with, complete with reference numbers etc for the other person to pursue at their end.
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The ICO wouldn't write to any affected third parties like that as that's not within their remit. They can tell a data controller to take such steps though, as part of their enforcement powers.
 
Quartz said:
I agree but perhaps it's better that the notice comes from the Information Commissioner's Office? Then they'd have confirmation that the matter was being dealt with, complete with reference numbers etc for the other person to pursue at their end.
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Farmerbarleymow does this for a living. If he's advised a certain way of doing a complaint, it's because it's the most effective way to get resolution.
 
equationgirl said:
I can talk you through getting set upon twitter and do messages for you to cut and paste into your twitter account, if you need a hand getting started.
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Yes please, I have just tried I have an old account archiemgurk which I just posted a message about DWP saving on postage, but I can't see it on the DWP press page where I thought I was posting.
 
angusmcfangus said:
Yes please, I have just tried I have an old account archiemgurk which I just posted a message about DWP saving on postage, but I can't see it on the DWP press page where I thought I was posting.
Click to expand...

You've posted to your own page - you need to include their twitter ID @dwppressoffice so that they see it.
 
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