Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[Celt]

Hope it went well today Celt.

all right is overstating it a bit, basically I'm on my own if I appeal, the Benefits Advice Shop cannot support me in my appeal because they are busy supporting people who don't get ESA at all, they have suggested however that I do appeal, if I gather further medical evidence they will look at the evidence and give me a likelyhood of winning my appeal, its fair enough i suppose, I am just a little self absorbed at the moment, I have difficulties reading the decision makers 30 page "medical evidence" and decision, in the next couple of days I need to go through that and work out how many of the points are plain wrong or have been misjudged, otherwise come November when my contibution based ESA runs out, I will loose £50 a week which is what my pension pays. I would then be moving on to means tested ESA, which my pension counts as income for. Rightly or wrongly I have got used to having that amount of money coming in and I will find it hard to loose. In the years when I had my mortgage I used this amount to pay my mortgage, I have had no housing benefit, I would become entitled to the various means tested benefits, such as council tax benefit.

I have 9 years left to retirement, I haven't worked for pay since my spinal surgery in 1984, but I would need to argue that I am never going to be well enough to return to work, I am not sure that what little self respect I have left will allow me to do this. I do voluntary work with a local mental health charity when I am able. You know I am going to finish here for the moment, I feel proper judged at the moment and need to wind my neck in and have a think.

Thank you contributers for putting up with this scrounger.

 

[toggle]

I have 9 years left to retirement, I haven't worked for pay since my spinal surgery in 1984, but I would need to argue that I am never going to be well enough to return to work, I am not sure that what little self respect I have left will allow me to do this. I do voluntary work with a local mental health charity when I am able. You know I am going to finish here for the moment, I feel proper judged at the moment and need to wind my neck in and have a think.

Thank you contributers for putting up with this scrounger.

whatever all this bullshit is making you feel, you don't have to be ashamed for the position you are in. you are not lazy, you are not a scrounger. you are someone who, through no fault of their own needs to use the safety net that our society provides. i can add a long rant about the people who fought for you to have this right, and not feel like shit about it, but you really do know all this already.

So you can't work, because you can't control when you are able to. that isn't a reflection on you as a person. on your value as a person and on your right to be treated with some respect.

one of the purposes of this shite is to bully people into thinking that they are useless unless they work, even if they are unfit, even if it will make their health worse, even if ti's killing them. and it's still bullshit.

 

[Greebo]

<snip>Thank you contributers for putting up with this scrounger.

That's enough of that, Celt.

You're not a scrounger, nobody is, and I refuse to let you call yourself that even ironically.

Sorry to hear of your trouble, I hope that you'll be able to get the level of benefits which you need. I suggest that you PM ViolentPanda tomorrow (he won't be online before about 11am).

 

[audiotech]

all right is overstating it a bit, basically I'm on my own if I appeal, the Benefits Advice Shop cannot support me in my appeal because they are busy supporting people who don't get ESA at all, they have suggested however that I do appeal, if I gather further medical evidence they will look at the evidence and give me a likelyhood of winning my appeal, its fair enough i suppose, I am just a little self absorbed at the moment, I have difficulties reading the decision makers 30 page "medical evidence.....

I was in a similar position, on my own, but I managed to gather up the strength to do all I needed and an appeal was awarded in my favour, so don't give up just yet. Try welfare rights, who may not be able to represent you, but will give advice and may help you write a submission for the appeal hearing. You have a right to have that 30 paged document typed, so it's readable. Get onto the DWP for them to do that. Now's the time to get an appeal in and I see you've done that, so well done, gather as much info as you can. The DWP don't usually turn-up to appeals, so it's pretty informal, but you'll need to prepare well. Every success.

 

[audiotech]

But it's not real, it's gone insane.
There is a big weight towards fear, loss, negativity, misery etc, that's not real.
We are being f*cked up the arse by greedy bullies, just like you get in school, no better.
Overgrown toddlers in charge of the world.
It is like a topsy turvy land in itself.
You can't have all bad, it's just not possible, in that you cannot have all black, you need light to be able to know dark and vice versa, it's just that the scales are really skewed at the moment.

This is good panpete. I won't claim this as my own, nevertheless, '"cynical realists" are the most blind to what's going on and illusions are at the heart of real life. We need critique more than ever' and yours fits the bill. Develop it some more.

 

[audiotech]

They're not coming.

Solidarity networks are here though, these will develop more and more, so important not to become a cynic and do nothing.

 

[tufty79]

Solidarity networks are here though, these will develop more and more, so important not to become a cynic and do nothing.

i want to like both yours and greebo's posts

 

[yardbird]

I've only just seen this -
http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk...fit-assessments-99623-33506311/#ixzz2Wq9exiXI

 

[Greebo]

I've only just seen this -
http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk...fit-assessments-99623-33506311/#ixzz2Wq9exiXI

Appalling.

 

[existentialist]

I've only just seen this -
http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk...fit-assessments-99623-33506311/#ixzz2Wq9exiXI

Another ATOS footbullet. This needs to be encouraged to happen a lot more - let the paranoid corporation show itself in its true colours.

 

[Celt]

That's enough of that, Celt.

You're not a scrounger, nobody is, and I refuse to let you call yourself that even ironically.

Sorry to hear of your trouble, I hope that you'll be able to get the level of benefits which you need. I suggest that you PM ViolentPanda tomorrow (he won't be online before about 11am).

I will do when I get back, taking my ma to the hospital to be given a 24 hour heart monitor.

I was in a similar position, on my own, but I managed to gather up the strength to do all I needed and an appeal was awarded in my favour, so don't give up just yet. Try welfare rights, who may not be able to represent you, but will give advice and may help you write a submission for the appeal hearing. You have a right to have that 30 paged document typed, so it's readable. Get onto the DWP for them to do that. Now's the time to get an appeal in and I see you've done that, so well done, gather as much info as you can. The DWP don't usually turn-up to appeals, so it's pretty informal, but you'll need to prepare well. Every success.

thank you. The medical evidence is typed, its because there are inaccuracies and what I feel is purposful misunderstanding in it. If my life were as this report, I wouldn't be complaining.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I will do when I get back, taking my ma to the hospital to be given a 24 hour heart monitor.



thank you. The medical evidence is typed, its because there are inaccuracies and what I feel is purposful misunderstanding in it. If my life were as this report, I wouldn't be complaining.

Been there, done that, unfortunately.
It's never fun to have to sit down with a wodge of print-out where whoever has entered the data appears to have been talking to a different, healthier parallel-world version of you, because each lie causes you to oscillate between outrage at the blatantness of the misrepresentation, and despair that this is someone "in power" that has done this to you, so "what chance have I got against them?".

Ultimately though, if their report contradicts your medical evidence and what you said during the "assessment", then it's incumbent on you to kick this back at them through appealing, if you're physically and emotionally able to bear doing so. I had issues with my DLA that took nearly 3 years without DLA to solve, including the DWP turning up at my appeal (very rare) and attempting to convince the tribunal that not only did my appeal not deserve reconsideration, but that they (the DWP) were considering prosecuting me for fraud. All the labour and tears to resolve that issue seemed insurmountable at the time, but I'm glad as fuck that I didn't let them steamroller me, as it made both Greebo and I angry enough that we have both helped others with similar problems whenever we can since then. That was nearly 15 years ago, and we're still angry!

Don't let them turn your emotions inward. We're none of us "scroungers", and as you say, if most of us were living with the degree of health their "reports" imply, we wouldn't need to claim social security payments to which we're absolutely medically entitled in the first place. Get angry at the fact that they've lied about you. Hone your anger into a spearpoint and then shove it into their throats. They started this war. You're merely defending yourself from people with a proven record for lying, bullying and financial deception.

 

[panpete]

This is good panpete. I won't claim this as my own, nevertheless, '"cynical realists" are the most blind to what's going on and illusions are at the heart of real life. We need critique more than ever' and yours fits the bill. Develop it some more.

Hi Audiotech

How do I develop it more, do you mean write more? Thanks

Celt, good luck with your appeal. I am on a pension too. It pays my mortgage. Most people who move from contrib to income based ESA are not affected, but we are.
So, us who worked and left for no fault of our own are being penalised more than those who never worked.

 

[existentialist]

I've decided that it would be a good idea to write a leaflet that could be given to people as they arrive at ATOS centres. I think it should be factual, friendly, and no more critical of ATOS/DWP than necessary. When I've written a first draft, I shall put it up here on Urban - on its own thread - and invite comments.

This was inspired by the story of the two people ATOS called the police on for standing outside an assessment centre and giving information to people coming in. It might be useful to link up with claimant support groups, but the idea of a near-permanent presence outside lots of ATOS centres appeals to me.

 

[audiotech]

Hi Audiotech

How do I develop it more, do you mean write more? Thanks

Celt, good luck with your appeal. I am on a pension too. It pays my mortgage. Most people who move from contrib to income based ESA are not affected, but we are.
So, us who worked and left for no fault of our own are being penalised more than those who never worked.

Think some more. "Never worked"? "Penalised"? How?

 

[Celt]

Hi Audiotech

How do I develop it more, do you mean write more? Thanks

Celt, good luck with your appeal. I am on a pension too. It pays my mortgage. Most people who move from contrib to income based ESA are not affected, but we are.
So, us who worked and left for no fault of our own are being penalised more than those who never worked.

I think other people have worked but their jobs are no longer there because of the economic situation, and I know that I was lucky to work in local government who at that time made provision for those who became to ill to work, I think all ill people should be supported, what I object to is them changing the rules, having said we will pay you this amount for the time you are ill, they have come to a situation where they can't. I don't believe I am entitled to more because I was able to work for a time, poor sods who are never well enough to work, why should they be secondary to me who was able to for a time? Are they any less deserving? I don't think so. I think the system is designed to have people misjudge others,

I am going to gather my evidence, go through the medical evidence and have a go at appealing.

I've decided that it would be a good idea to write a leaflet that could be given to people as they arrive at ATOS centres. I think it should be factual, friendly, and no more critical of ATOS/DWP than necessary. When I've written a first draft, I shall put it up here on Urban - on its own thread - and invite comments.

This was inspired by the story of the two people ATOS called the police on for standing outside an assessment centre and giving information to people coming in. It might be useful to link up with claimant support groups, but the idea of a near-permanent presence outside lots of ATOS centres appeals to me.

I was thinking last night about all the things we have learnt about the process through this thread and others like it and I think it would be great if someone could put that together. Do it man.

Thanks ViolentPanda, I may be back to ask questions.

 

[treelover]

Just read that universal credit will be paid one month in arrears with the new initial seven days without payment that will be 38 days without money, ffs..

congrats to that councillor and adviser in Liverpool, if only more were like that, got publicity too.

 

[kittyP]

Been there, done that, unfortunately.
It's never fun to have to sit down with a wodge of print-out where whoever has entered the data appears to have been talking to a different, healthier parallel-world version of you, because each lie causes you to oscillate between outrage at the blatantness of the misrepresentation, and despair that this is someone "in power" that has done this to you, so "what chance have I got against them?".

Ultimately though, if their report contradicts your medical evidence and what you said during the "assessment", then it's incumbent on you to kick this back at them through appealing, if you're physically and emotionally able to bear doing so. I had issues with my DLA that took nearly 3 years without DLA to solve, including the DWP turning up at my appeal (very rare) and attempting to convince the tribunal that not only did my appeal not deserve reconsideration, but that they (the DWP) were considering prosecuting me for fraud. All the labour and tears to resolve that issue seemed insurmountable at the time, but I'm glad as fuck that I didn't let them steamroller me, as it made both Greebo and I angry enough that we have both helped others with similar problems whenever we can since then. That was nearly 15 years ago, and we're still angry!

Don't let them turn your emotions inward. We're none of us "scroungers", and as you say, if most of us were living with the degree of health their "reports" imply, we wouldn't need to claim social security payments to which we're absolutely medically entitled in the first place. Get angry at the fact that they've lied about you. Hone your anger into a spearpoint and then shove it into their throats. They started this war. You're merely defending yourself from people with a proven record for lying, bullying and financial deception.

Just wanna say thank you VP.
It's saddening that that happened to you but your vitriol is inspiring in these dark times x

 

[existentialist]

So, us who worked and left for no fault of our own are being penalised more than those who never worked.

This kind of thing troubles me. The government has devoted a lot of effort to creating a divide between what they call the "deserving" and "undeserving" poor, and every time someone says something like the above, I feel we are stepping closer to the abyss.

It isn't as simple as who's worked and who hasn't, much as the government would love us to adopt such black-and-white thinking.

It's about need, not blame.

 

[kittyP]

This kind of thing troubles me. The government has devoted a lot of effort to creating a divide between what they call the "deserving" and "undeserving" poor, and every time someone says something like the above, I feel we are stepping closer to the abyss.

It isn't as simple as who's worked and who hasn't, much as the government would love us to adopt such black-and-white thinking.

It's about need, not blame.

You are totally correct but I think there is something in what PP said because it is so hypocritical of the government.
If they want to create an us and them society then this is a pretty stupid way to go about it.
In fact, it might actually be a good thing in that, if some people who have always worked, are very anti benefits culture, suddenly find themselves without a job, suddenly realise how much the government is penalizing them, they might wake up to how it actually fucking is.

 

[existentialist]

The draft leaflet.

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/a-leaflet-to-distribute-outside-atos-offices.312169/

 

[panpete]

Think some more. "Never worked"? "Penalised"? How?

I worked and got pensioned off due to ill health. Income based ESA would be virtually non existant, so, why I have to survive on my pension of £500 a month, all inclusive, theres some (not all) claimants who never worked but get housing benefit and full income based ESA.
I feel penalised for having worked 16 yrs and for having a private home.

 

[panpete]

I think other people have worked but their jobs are no longer there because of the economic situation, and I know that I was lucky to work in local government who at that time made provision for those who became to ill to work, I think all ill people should be supported, what I object to is them changing the rules, having said we will pay you this amount for the time you are ill, they have come to a situation where they can't. I don't believe I am entitled to more because I was able to work for a time, poor sods who are never well enough to work, why should they be secondary to me who was able to for a time? Are they any less deserving? I don't think so. I think the system is designed to have people misjudge others,

I am going to gather my evidence, go through the medical evidence and have a go at appealing.

I was thinking last night about all the things we have learnt about the process through this thread and others like it and I think it would be great if someone could put that together. Do it man.

Thanks ViolentPanda, I may be back to ask questions.

I don't think people who have always been too ill to work are un-deserving, but I think it's unfair that I should lose out on most of my ESA and I think I am deserving, but not treated so.

 

[audiotech]

I worked and got pensioned off due to ill health. Income based ESA would be virtually non existant, so, why I have to survive on my pension of £500 a month, all inclusive, theres some (not all) claimants who never worked but get housing benefit and full income based ESA.
I feel penalised for having worked 16 yrs and for having a private home.

Let's deconstruct your strawman argument. Everyone has to meet a strict criteria to be in receipt of any benefit, more so Employment and Support Allowance. Also, it's increasingly a means tested benefit system that takes the income and savings into account of everyone, most after a year. if they are still on benefits after this time, because it's clear that only the severely disabled, are likely to be in receipt of the Support Group component for any length of time and assessed as 'never being able to work'.

Furthermore, it's very unlikely that they will have any significant savings, having "never worked". Many will have none at all. Significant numbers I expect will be in debt, because of the costs involved with being severely disabled and needs not being met by any benefit at all and those benefits that do cover some costs, such as the Disability Living Allowance (DLA), being reduced, or cut altogether.

DLA is to be replaced with Personal Independent Payments (PIPs) and the Chancellor is expecting to make savings here, so more cuts and others again not meeting the increasingly strict criteria being set. Of course being severely disabled and having "never worked" they'll have no workplace pension to fall back on either. In fact, due to recent changes, with claimants now having to pay a proportion of their ESA on housing costs, if they have been assessed as "under-occupied" for example, as well as increasing numbers having to pay a proportion of council tax out of their benefit, they are more than likely to be worse off overall.

Lastly, someone having "never worked" it is highly unlikely they will have had enough money to take out a mortgage and will be probably in social housing, an adapted property perhaps? This leading to more costs for installation say, if no grants available, and upkeep and maintenance costs to take into account too. I believe the value of a house is not taken into account when means tested for benefits and there is no "under occupancy" assessment, nor reduction in benefit for anyone who owns their own home.

Oh, I see you take "speed", so I'm assuming you are not severely disabled and if you can afford to spend money on illegal drugs not "penalised" at all, well that's unless you're caught in possession of such drugs. Psychotic episode was it?

 

[Celt]

I think this thread, which has a mass of useful information is in danger of becoming devisive. I think the "I'm more deserving than that person," breaks us down into tiny subgroups turning on each other. This thread is Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support, and I think we should maybe take other conversation elsewhere

 

[existentialist]

I think this thread, which has a mass of useful information is in danger of becoming devisive. I think the "I'm more deserving than that person," breaks us down into tiny subgroups turning on each other. This thread is Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support, and I think we should maybe take other conversation elsewhere

It looks to me like the necessary corrective measures are already going on. I think it will carry on being a useful resource. But yes, bunfights are better taken elsewhere, if there are to be any.

 

[cesare]

It's a long thread for newcomers to try and catch up on. Perhaps time to start a new one with the opening post containing an index to useful resources?

 

[kittyP]

You are totally correct but I think there is something in what PP said because it is so hypocritical of the government.
If they want to create an us and them society then this is a pretty stupid way to go about it.
In fact, it might actually be a good thing in that, if some people who have always worked, are very anti benefits culture, suddenly find themselves without a job, suddenly realise how much the government is penalizing them, they might wake up to how it actually fucking is.

There may be some truth in this even within their own party.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-could-backfire-warns-tory-ally-8677585.html

 

[panpete]

Please may I ask a question about the form I just sent on 25th June?

I have a copy of the latest "benefitsandwork.com" pdf on how to fill, and submit a form.

In this booklet, they say:

"For people filling in this questionnaire for someone else.
If someone else is helping you to fill in the form but you are going to sign it yourself then we
would say that it is up to you whether this part is completed or not.
However, the DWP seem often to be suspicious about evidence given by claimants
themselves, particularly where a mental health condition is involved. So, if you get help from
a social worker, housing worker, health professional or someone similar, it may actually be to
your advantage for them to complete this section."

The CAB filled mine out and signed it, and I also signed it.
I filled out extra sheets, however, while I never changed the boxes the CAB ticked, I also wrote some additional info on the form.

Is this going to be a problem for me?

Thanks

 

[cesare]

Please may I ask a question about the form I just sent on 25th June?

I have a copy of the latest "benefitsandwork.com" pdf on how to fill, and submit a form.

In this booklet, they say:

"For people filling in this questionnaire for someone else.
If someone else is helping you to fill in the form but you are going to sign it yourself then we
would say that it is up to you whether this part is completed or not.
However, the DWP seem often to be suspicious about evidence given by claimants
themselves, particularly where a mental health condition is involved. So, if you get help from
a social worker, housing worker, health professional or someone similar, it may actually be to
your advantage for them to complete this section."

The CAB filled mine out and signed it, and I also signed it.
I filled out extra sheets, however, while I never changed the boxes the CAB ticked, I also wrote some additional info on the form.

Is this going to be a problem for me?

Thanks

The signatures are for everything you submitted including the additional pages, so I don't think it'll be a problem or anything to worry about, Pete.