And next, Syria?
- Thread starter Idris2002
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Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
dont get me wrong, I think his intentions were very noble but based on a massive tactical and personal misreading of who he was up against . He forgot the most important thing, those people actually were and are the enemies of humanity . It wasnt just soviet propaganda . Some tea and biccies with Maggie and he was losing the run of himself . Ultimately the only thing they respect is force . Anything else is just weakness to them . As soon as he started talking peace and concialiation all they smelled was blood in the water, while he was sniffing roses .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
this is the one i read, it was quite short
Manifesto for the Earth: Action Now for Peace, Global Justice and a Sustainable Future by Mikhail S. Gorbachev
not sure why i had it - i think i found it...
the guys been at the levers of world power, his brain is certainly worth picking
The truth is we all are sat at our keyboards with slightly bated breath.
The war-hawks are being bolstered by the news media stirring up this crisis.
As Gorbachev says while it is a crisis it can be negotiated, but once military action starts, chaos begins and all reason and expectations are lost and anything could happen.(Paraphrased)
If the news media want a story it seems they can push all the buttons to create that story.
Shameful.
The war-hawks are being bolstered by the news media stirring up this crisis.
As Gorbachev says while it is a crisis it can be negotiated, but once military action starts, chaos begins and all reason and expectations are lost and anything could happen.(Paraphrased)
If the news media want a story it seems they can push all the buttons to create that story.
Shameful.
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Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
thats well interesting, thanks for that
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
its sickening . The diplomatic door is completely open on this but the yanks insist on slamming it shut . They keep painting themselves into a diplomatic corner very deliberately were the only option can ever be war. The media should be demanding of them why they dont simply call Putins and Assads bluff by taking their evidence to the UN and following the proper and agreed procedures , as well as waiting for the UNs own investigation to complete. If the west are telling the truth then Putin is exposed on the world stage as a liar and Assad a war criminal . But theres absolutely no media pressure on them to do this . Any decent reporter would be smelling a rat, and assuming if a politician is hiding something then he plainly has something to hide.
Instead Youtube videos are all the medias interested in and such things are certainly not a basis for war . In an era of dodgy dossiers and vials of white powder thats an absolute disgrace .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
The yanks are now advising all non essential diplomatic staff in Turkey and Lebanon to leg it, as well as telling their citizens to get out of both countries .
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
The literal transliteration is impossible because it features every arabic students favourite impossible-to-say letter 'ayn which doesn't exist in the roman alphabet. 'Ayn is usually literally transliterated to an apostrophe and if so the spelling would be al qa'da. But that looks like "al carda" in most European languages so people stick an 'i' or an 'e' or whatever to get a more realistic sound.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
That doesn't bode well. An attack by the US inevitable?
ska invita
back on the other side
i guess it will happen fast once the approval is made - though a link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/where-lawmakers-stand-on-syria/
Though Obama could act anyway - i find it impossible to believe it won't happen, but i guess there is a chance
Here we are again, I noticed there is a shortage of gas masks for sale to the public in Israel too according to Israeli on line media.
This could turn very nasty, very quickly.
There are now Chinese warships in the Eastern Mediterranean, just observing of course.
I really do hope they find some way to make a deal, but it's probably got to a point where the Obama administration thinks it has to act militarily, or else make America look spectacularly weak. You can't bang the war drums like that and not follow it up. I don't think that Obama wants to do something that would lead to them putting troops in Syria, but these things have a momentum of their own and unless somehow he steps ups and makes some kind of deal with the Russians over Assad's future then we're heading for war.
I also think they're dragging out the "will they, won't they" stuff as much as possible coz the uncertainty makes it harder for Assad to respond and all the speculation builds up pressure. There's a lot of psychology and bluff going on.
I don't think the UN security council decision will determine the US's course of action. The US has never had any problem ignoring the wishes of the UN or other international obligations if it gets in the way of their national interests. The vote in congress is a different story though.
I also think they're dragging out the "will they, won't they" stuff as much as possible coz the uncertainty makes it harder for Assad to respond and all the speculation builds up pressure. There's a lot of psychology and bluff going on.
I don't think the UN security council decision will determine the US's course of action. The US has never had any problem ignoring the wishes of the UN or other international obligations if it gets in the way of their national interests. The vote in congress is a different story though.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
just going from a lot of reports im reading the Syrian army itself seems to be going into assymetric mode in a lot of areas, as well as reports of a lot of young men signing up . They dont seem to be shitting themselves and i fail to see how cruise missile strikes can make much impact there . So the plan has to be escalation .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
well when it comes to the zionists they just veto it automatically, and now theyre calling the Russians cunts for vetoing them a couple of times . The argument though isnt whether it will or not, its about the fact it should. Because to act outside it makes those actions criminal and theres no getting away from that. And if whatever remains of the pretence of international law ends up dead and buried then theres no constraints on anyone at all . A bad situation gets a million times worse .
It is heart breaking and bewildering when you consider all the deaths in the middle east and north Africa since 1947.
Yet it still goes on and the casualty list grows daily.
Those refugees from Palestine in 48, all the way to now and the endless stream of humanity fleeing Syria it is appalling and shaming to witness.
It can only get worse if military action ensues.
The UN needs a re-boot. Innocents are dying again and again, whilst a few profit from the turmoil.
Is there such a thing as humanity? Did we let it die?
So many turn their faces away and fill their lives with immaterial things. While some make poor, sick jokes about the plight of those less fortunate.
We should be out in the streets, throwing rocks and demanding change. Oh just a minute Big Brother is on.
Yet it still goes on and the casualty list grows daily.
Those refugees from Palestine in 48, all the way to now and the endless stream of humanity fleeing Syria it is appalling and shaming to witness.
It can only get worse if military action ensues.
The UN needs a re-boot. Innocents are dying again and again, whilst a few profit from the turmoil.
Is there such a thing as humanity? Did we let it die?
So many turn their faces away and fill their lives with immaterial things. While some make poor, sick jokes about the plight of those less fortunate.
We should be out in the streets, throwing rocks and demanding change. Oh just a minute Big Brother is on.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
spot on
There's no constraints on anyone as it is, it's always been like this. If international law or the UN was ever something that could ever possibly inhibit US imperial interests they would never have took the lead in setting it up, would they? Same goes for the League of Nations. The US (and most other powerful states for that matter, Russia included) only pay any attention to international law when it's in their national interest to do so. If it's in their interest to ignore it, they practically always do so. The primary function today of the system of international law, in a globalised capitalist society, is to provide a veneer of legitimacy for the great powers to enforce the system of global capitalism, with all the pseudo-liberal platitudes about national self-determination and pluralism and so on being just as empty now as the treaties and conventions that existed during the 18th and 19th centuries. It's not something that's ever going to be able to hold the great powers to account, and it's tragic to see you put so much faith in it, especially as it's so at odds with understanding how imperialism actually works.
And I also think that the idea it took this event, rather than invasion of Iraq 2003, South Ossettian war 2008, Turkish Invasion of Northern Cyprus 1974, the constant breaches of the 1967 internationally recognised borders of Palestine by Israel, (etc etc) for you to see just how useful international law really is in holding states to account.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/06/david-cameron-uk-small-island
Anyway David Cameron has been had off. This is some expert politicking. Knowing that Cameron is a bad tempered angry dickhead, too weak to even get a vote through Parliament and be the Yanks bag-carrier which even Blair managed, the Russians have made some comments about Britain being a small island to get to Cameron. Standard bit of mind games at a tense conference like this, and a more shrewd person might know better than to rise to it, but predictably Cameron took the bait and went on a toe-curling little monologue about how wonderful Britain is and got himself a bit flustered. He really is a fucking idiot.
Anyway David Cameron has been had off. This is some expert politicking. Knowing that Cameron is a bad tempered angry dickhead, too weak to even get a vote through Parliament and be the Yanks bag-carrier which even Blair managed, the Russians have made some comments about Britain being a small island to get to Cameron. Standard bit of mind games at a tense conference like this, and a more shrewd person might know better than to rise to it, but predictably Cameron took the bait and went on a toe-curling little monologue about how wonderful Britain is and got himself a bit flustered. He really is a fucking idiot.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
well if we advocate the abandonment of international law then goodbye to non proliferation treaties, goodbye to climate treaties, sell whatever weapons to whoever you want, goodbye to all human rights everwhere and hello slavery . Bad as the situation is theres no doubt it imposes mny constraints on many states behaviour . Theres no doubt either the application of international law has failed in many areas but its essential for world peace and a lot of other things . Taking some ideological approach in rejecting it outright to it isnt the way forward . The entire world has affirmed the United Nations and send their representatives there .The way forward is for the world..the majority of us on the globe.. to demand the democratisation of the UN, not the abandonment of international law itself on ultra leftist ideological grounds.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
bated
That does sound a bit like 20/20 hindsight. Old Cold War warriors like Fidel are bound to take that attitude, and Mikhail wanted to do something bold because the Cold War was such a drain. It turns out that Fidel's predictions were bourn out, but at the time it was far from obvious. When I was at college, we were introduced to the concept of moral luck. That an action might be justified or condemned post hoc by the turn of circumstances. I think it was meant to be a critique of Utilitarianism but we do tend to take that attitude. I'm not so sure. You can be right and fail.
It is a shame we cannot give a like times ten for fellow postings, brilliant DB.
I have visions of cameron running around the grown-ups feet at G20, like a spoilt brat at a wedding, shouting look at me, I'm important.
This isn't leftist ideological stuff this neo-realist, neo-classical view as much as anything else. This is how it works, haven't you noticed how the USA and other big powers just pick and choose what international laws they follow? Is this news to you or something? I'd love to there be a functional system of international law but c'mon look around, it doesn't exist, it's liberal fantasy shit.
cheers. Putin's notorious for this kind of stuff, you never really leave the KGB. He moved Barack Obama 5 seats down the line at the opening meeting of the G20 apparently at the last minute I had heard, opted to be seated next to Mexico instead iirc. Or the story from the US wikileaks cables, about how he got his big nasty rottweiler dog to come onstage with Angela Merkel (who has a fear of dogs after being attacked by one as a child) to intimidate her. Real bastard.
You don't rise to it though, but David Cameron is quite easily riled and bad tempered. You only have to see the arrogant bastard on PMQ's for 2 minutes to see that. I've heard he's got a habit for throwing tantrums and getting enraged at his staff easily.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
im just surprised he never mentioned england cheated and won the world cup in the 60s against half of germany.
The claim that Britain cleansed the European continent of fascism will result in some chin stroking in Moscow Im sure though .
Ending the slave trade too. That's a Ray Liotta moment that.
Where did all that cotton for the mills in Lancashire come from then? Grown on the cotton fields of Cheshire?
No-one made more money out of slavery than the British empire.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Actually Fidels advice was borne of experience, because hed tried exactly that with the yanks himself and gotten nowhere . In fact all his overtures were just seen as a sign of weakness and resulted in the yanks piling more pressure on.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
he's got really easy to spot signals as weel- eyes go wide, face reddens, lips go thin as he starts to grimace. I'm not exactly an expert in reading body language but you can see the man losing it. Half that fucking front bench are incapable of playing a subtle face, IDS loses it regular, Gove s head starts to wobble when he's angry. The only one with any 'game' is Haugue and even then he's just a smile and anod man when he isn't the one at pulpit.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
and thats just because hes been living a secret life for decades and has learned to watch himself
Yeah you're absolutely right, especially when his face goes red, I remember noticing it whenever Dennis Skinner talks at PMQ's, he just gets really angry, like a feudal baron angry at being questioned out of turn by an impudent serf.
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