And next, Syria?

[cdg]

BBC is reporting that the FSA has received an arms shipment that will change the course of the war but without specifying what weapons.

 

[Delroy Booth]

An interesting article looking at the fall of Al-Qusair from a rebel point of view

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Mi...h-for-alternative-strategy.ashx#ixzz2WpPT0pIJ

 

[Casually Red]

BBC is reporting that the FSA has received an arms shipment that will change the course of the war but without specifying what weapons.

the only conventional weapon that could have any conceivable impact is the stinger . And if theyve committed that act of criminal madness then getting on a passenger jet anywhere in western europe over the next ten years is going to be an adrenaline fuelled rush to say the least .

"We have begun distributing them on the front lines, they will be in the hands of professional officers and FSA fighters," he said.
He did not specify what weapons had been received or when they had arrived, but added that another shipment was expected soon.
"The weapons will be used for one objective, which is to fight the regime of Bashar al-Assad," Muqdad insisted. "They will be collected after the fall of the regime, we have made this commitment to the friends and brotherly countries."



this of course is the very same FSA whos own brigade commanders openly admit is a completely disorganised rabble of looters and criminals, inherently corrupt , and whos fighters are not only routinely disarmed by Al Qaeda en masse but who often defect to Al Qaeda en masse as well .

Criminal madness, even in the strictly legal sense.

 

[TomUS]

This was inevitable....Iraqis with US supplied arms fighting Syrian rebels with US supplied arms.

Thousands of Shi'ite Muslims from Iraq and beyond will take up arms against Sunni al Qaeda "savages" in Syria if fellow Shi'ites or their shrines come under attack again, a powerful minister in Iraq's Shi'ite-led government said.

It would be impossible to "sit idle while the Shi'ites are being attacked", while the United States and Western allies arm and finance the mainly Sunni rebels fighting against Syria's government, Hadi al-Amiri told Reuters in an interview.
Amiri, Iraq's transport minister, is head of the Badr Organisation, a political movement which arose from a heavily-armed Iran-trained militia and many of whose members are now part of Iraq's security forces.

"After Deir al-Zor, thousands of Shi'ite youths from Iraq and all over the world will head to fight in Syria. If 300 Lebanese Hezbollah fighters changed the equation in Syria, Iraqi young men will go to Syria to change it a hundred times over," Amiri said, referring to Hezbollah forces whose intervention enabled Assad loyalists retake the town of Qusair this month.

http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-shiites-ready-fight-syria-iraqi-says-144545309.html

 

[Casually Red]

Actually it didn't. Only 98 Syrians were polled (and even then the sample was only drawn from people who had access to the internet which is 18% of the population).


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155349

why did they bother carrying it out then, save for the forlorn hope they could get an anti assad majority . So when they didnt get the result they wanted they instead poo poohed their own poll .

 

[thriller]

This was inevitable....Iraqis with US supplied arms fighting Syrian rebels with US supplied arms.


http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-shiites-ready-fight-syria-iraqi-says-144545309.html

'bout time. personally would like to see break up of iraq. the shia south split away, maybe creating a greater persia

 

[yield]

This was inevitable....Iraqis with US supplied arms fighting Syrian rebels with US supplied arms.
http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-shiites-ready-fight-syria-iraqi-says-144545309.html

This article takes a slightly different angle.
Iraqi Shi'ites flock to Assad's side as sectarian split widens
Reuters. Wed Jun 19, 2013

Now the rules of engagement have changed, and splits have emerged among Syrian and Iraqi Shi'ite fighters. The Iraqi Mehdi army, Asaib al-Haq and Kata'ib Hezbollah have begun fighting under the command of the Lebanese Hezbollah, which helped Assad troops to recapture the strategic town of Qusair this month.

Military discipline imposed by leaders of Asaib al-Haq and Kata'ib Hezbollah on the Iraqis has irritated the Shabiha, some Iraqi fighters say, because the Syrians had tried to take advantage of the chaos to profit financially from the fighting.

Those disagreements erupted into a gunbattle near the shrine of Sayyida Zeinab few weeks ago between Asaib, Kata'ib and some Iraqi Mehdi Army fighters on one side and Abu Ajil, the Syrian commander of the Abu al-Fadhl al-Abbas brigade, and his local followers on the other. Two Iraqi fighters and three Syrian Shabiha died in the clash, militants in Baghdad said.

A reconciliation meeting was held under orders of Khamenei's office, but divisions fester and Iraqi combatants have formed a new brigade, refusing to fight under Syrian command.

"I am not taking a salary from the Syrian government, no one has a right to treat me as a mercenary Shabiha," said Abu Sajad, a former Mehdi Armi fighter, and one of the Shi'ite leaders who established the Abu al-Fadhl al-Abbas brigade. "I won't ever fight again by the side of those who killed my brothers."

Special Report - Syria's Islamists seize control as moderates dither

Looks like the FSA is the "Islamist alliance formed between Jabhat al-Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham and Liwa al-Tawhid".

 

[CyberRose]

why did they bother carrying it out then, save for the forlorn hope they could get an anti assad majority . So when they didnt get the result they wanted they instead poo poohed their own poll .

Are you seriously still going down this route?!

The poll was never intended to canvass the opinions of the Syrian people (it was a poll of all Arab countries) and it did get an anti-Assad majority of 81%. Did you even read the article?

But forget that, you're basing your opinion that Assad has public support on the fact that 54 (fifty four) people support him and you're actually sticking to that!

 

[yield]

Are you seriously still going down this route?!

The poll was never intended to canvass the opinions of the Syrian people (it was a poll of all Arab countries) and it did get an anti-Assad majority of 81%. Did you even read the article?

But forget that, you're basing your opinion that Assad has public support on the fact that 54 (fifty four) people support him and you're actually sticking to that!

To be fair I can't find any corroboration for this article either.
Only an all-out war can depose Assad. Anything less is like being 'half-pregnant'
World View: Syria's insurgents cannot win just by getting a few more weapons. If the West intervenes, it will be as a main player
Patrick Cockburn. Independent. Saturday 15 June 2013

Britain and France speak as if the struggle was between an overwhelmingly popular insurgency and a hated dictatorship. But it was a rebel commander, Abu Ahmed, in the al-Tawheed Brigade that is part of the FSA in Aleppo, who volunteered to a reporter earlier this year that 70 per cent of people in Aleppo support Assad.

Cyberrose your demands for a yougov poll in a warzone are pretty risible though.

 

[elbows]

Info on flow of arms from Libya to Syria, including Russian arms that were originally for Gaddafi.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/22/w...s-get-libyan-weapons.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[CyberRose]

Cyberrose your demands for a yougov poll in a warzone are pretty risible though.

Think you're confusing me with Casually Red...s/he is the one pinning their arguments to a YouGov poll (which was never intended to be used in the way Casually Red and the media have used it). It might be right for all I know, but it's certainly not a reliable source of public opinion in Syria

 

[thriller]

Rebels murdered my 14-year-old for a joke': Anguish of Syrian mother who saw her son being shot dead

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Anguish-Syrian-mother-saw-son-shot-dead.html

'I was at the door when I hear the second shot.
'I saw the third shot.'
The killers ignored her screams, merely giving her a dirty look as they climbed into their car, she said.
'As they went, they drove over my son's arm, as he lay there dying.'

 

[bendeus]

Rebels murdered my 14-year-old for a joke': Anguish of Syrian mother who saw her son being shot dead

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Anguish-Syrian-mother-saw-son-shot-dead.html

The comments section of that piece is particularly revelatory. Seems even the swivel-eyed loons are against the current policy of arming the dead-eyed loons. Seems there's a fair amount of awareness of what the fruits of this fucking folly might be, and little appetite for further progress down that road

 

[TomUS]

Rebels murdered my 14-year-old for a joke': Anguish of Syrian mother who saw her son being shot dead

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Anguish-Syrian-mother-saw-son-shot-dead.html

Well then I'm definitely rooting for that nice Mr. Assad who commits no atrocities.

 

[sihhi]

Palestine/Fatah: keeping their head down, sfaics

Fatah lashing out at Hamas for their anti-Assad pronouncements.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=607949

 

[thriller]

Well then I'm definitely rooting for that nice Mr. Assad who commits no atrocities.

not suggesting that. But life under assad before sunni jihadi terrorists got uppity- such things would not have been tolerated.

 

[Casually Red]

The comments section of that piece is particularly revelatory. Seems even the swivel-eyed loons are against the current policy of arming the dead-eyed loons. Seems there's a fair amount of awareness of what the fruits of this fucking folly might be, and little appetite for further progress down that road

I think this is very revealing . Remember that big Freinds of Syria conference in Paris last year ? Not only were they proclaiming imminent victory but even dividing up the spoils of Syrias wealth between them. One year on and the enthusiasm seems to have waned...just a tad. Out of the original 121 international members in Paris last year only 11 bothered their backsides to turn up in Doha this time round. Looks like quite a few people have decided they didnt back a winner afterall .

http://www.voltairenet.org/article179094.html

And going back to what I was saying earlier on the issue of criminal responsibility for what happens with the weapons after they are supplied to the jihadists. The United Nations International Commission of Inquiry for Syria is warning those supplying weapons to the terrorists can be held responsible for any atrocities committed with them.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article179093.html

 

[Casually Red]

Fatah lashing out at Hamas for their anti-Assad pronouncements.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=607949

Its possible theyve moved beyond pronouncements. Apart from the jihadists adopting specific tactics and using home made Katyusha designs that Hezbollah insist they provided to Hamas to resist zionist aggression with,which would mean Hamas are providing training and support to the jihadists, it looks like Hamas police in Gaza have pretty much gone and executed a senior member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad group, which is backed by Iran, Hezbollah and Damascus . Reports indicate he was shot by Hamas police through the head in his home . The PIJ are claiming theyve severed all ties with Hamas , Hamas claiming they havent .

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...dies-after-clash-with-Hamas-police--1515.html

Almost immediately theres been a flare up of rocket fire into Israel from Gaza, and an Israeli response .

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/w...-gaza-shakes-cease-fire-with-israel.html?_r=0


If it transpires this was a deliberate execution it could have very serious consequences on the ground in Gaza and elsewhere .

 

[Delroy Booth]

Here's a potentially significant development. Russia has withdrawn its remaining military personnel from the naval base in Tartous. http://rt.com/politics/navy-diplomat-syria-base-251/

Remember earlier I was saying how a lot of the recent tit-for-tat posturing, competitively offering each side arms, has been a NATO vs Russia showdown - well it seems Russia has blinked first. This could be a calculation on Russia's part that direct american intervention is going to take place and they don't want to be in the way if the US sends troops in, or it could be a calculation that with new weapons the rebels are going to ultimately win and they're getting out now before Assad falls. Must be worrying Assad a lot this.

Naval base at Tartous

 

[laptop]

Fatah lashing out at Hamas for their anti-Assad pronouncements.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=607949

I think that's more internal Fatah -v- Hamas and Hamas -v- Hizb sniping than anything to do with Syria?

 

[TomUS]

Here's a potentially significant development. Russia has withdrawn its remaining military personnel from the naval base in Tartous. http://rt.com/politics/navy-diplomat-syria-base-251/

Remember earlier I was saying how a lot of the recent tit-for-tat posturing, competitively offering each side arms, has been a NATO vs Russia showdown - well it seems Russia has blinked first. This could be a calculation on Russia's part that direct american intervention is going to take place and they don't want to be in the way if the US sends troops in, or it could be a calculation that with new weapons the rebels are going to ultimately win and they're getting out now before Assad falls. Must be worrying Assad a lot this.

Naval base at Tartous

Hmmmm. If they're really withdrawing like that (& so far we have only Russian gov or quasi gov sources) it would a bad sign for Assad, & somehow I kind of doubt the story without further corroboration. But no way in hell will there be any American ground troops. Obama isn't nuts. Whatever may happen will come from the air.

 

[Delroy Booth]

So, erm, according to Pravda they're not withdrawing from Tartus after all. Apologies.

If it's a hoax story then I wonder who/why and all that. Really hard to find impartial news on anything to do with Syria.

 

[camouflage]

'bout time. personally would like to see break up of iraq. the shia south split away, maybe creating a greater persia

You are either a gifted but heartless nine year old who spends the rest of his time playing Command and Conquer and pulling the wings off flies, or some dead-eyed asshole with a personality disorder. Possibly both.

 

[thriller]

You are either a gifted but heartless nine year old who spends the rest of his time playing Command and Conquer and pulling the wings off flies, or some dead-eyed asshole with a personality disorder. Possibly both.

The whole of the middle east is a western creation, you stupid fuck. a bit of redrawing of the boarder will eventually bring peace.

 

[bendeus]

The whole of the middle east is a western creation, you stupid fuck. a bit of redrawing of the boarder will eventually bring peace.

This is a spectacularly dim post.

 

[thriller]

So, erm, according to Pravda they're not withdrawing from Tartus after all. Apologies.

If it's a hoax story then I wonder who/why and all that. Really hard to find impartial news on anything to do with Syria.

moron

 

[goldenecitrone]

The whole of the middle east is a western creation, you stupid fuck. a bit of redrawing of the boarder will eventually bring peace.

Which borders would you like to see redrawn? And how are they going to get redrawn?

 

[Casually Red]

anyways, looks like Homs is turning into the next major front . Syrian army going for it very heavy over the last 3 days, retaking it will be a major blow . Earlier in the week they retook the town of Tel Kalakh near the lebanese border and other districts around Homs

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/26/310988/syria-army-takes-city-on-lebanon-border/

 

[camouflage]

anyways, looks like Homs is turning into the next major front . Syrian army going for it very heavy over the last 3 days, retaking it will be a major blow . Earlier in the week they retook the town of Tel Kalakh near the lebanese border and other districts around Homs

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/26/310988/syria-army-takes-city-on-lebanon-border/

The thing about Tel Kalakh is that it wasn't taken in battle but through a process of truces and ceasefires. This is what a peace process looks like, truces and ceasefires by the people who actually live in a place. Make no mistake, Hague, Kerry, Hollande etc... this sort of thing (dialogue, negotiated settlement, amnesty and ceasefire) is not what they want to see in Syria, peace is not their priority. Conflict in Syria is to them.... useful, they would rather the rebels had held out and that the battle rages on as of today. Now the town is taken they would rather battle were to break out again tomorrow with a reinvigorated rebel assault.

 

[CNT36]

The thing about Tel Kalakh is that it wasn't taken in battle but through a process of truces and ceasefires. This is what a peace process looks like, truces and ceasefires by the people who actually live in a place.

Have you got a link for that or any more information? All I can find is a sentence about truce ending under which it had allowed a few rebels to stick around and an army statement talking about the terrorists and how the people there wanted them back.