And next, Syria?

[coley]

I was initially ecstatic Mubarak was ousted. My enthusiasm waned somewhat ...a lot..when I saw what he was being replaced with . In another uprising that shower were dumped too . And then it's back to almost square one. And your chiding me for not being excited by it all . the choice was MB or Egyptian generals . Neither of whom I could really give a fiddlers for . I'm slightly more glad the MB are gone though.

And what you accuse me of is completely hypocritical. Get back to me with any of your posts ...or anyone else's on here for that matter..that even seriously tries to analyse why so many people in Syria support Assad. And have died for the government in such huge , massive numbers. From all sects and walks of life. Because whenever such discussion arises its immediately howled down by the gang . At best it's dismissed as Alawite sectarianism, or Assad will kill their families if they dont .The regurgitation of every pro western trope going . But most of the time it's just dismissed as not even true to begin with . And the incessant, inane wails of " strongman ". Which isnt an answer . Despite massive holes in that narrative .

As regards pawns here's what the opposition claimed was their very first meeting , in Turkey of course. Sponsored by Erdogan naturally.Mr Muslim brotherhood . Turns out it wasn't their first such meeting either. And you'll note precisely who wasn't invited . And who was there. Agency my hole.

Syrian opposition meet in Turkey to discuss increasing pressure on Assad | The National

Not a chance I'd support scum like that for an instant . Or their " revolution ". Revolution ffs.

2011?
Take your point,but events have moved on somewhat?

 

[Casually Red]

2011?
Take your point,but events have moved on somewhat?

Indeed . They moved on from there quite quickly into even worse fuckers than those at the meeting becoming part of the western , turkish and emirati backed " revolution ". Oh how such people love to back revolutions.
But the point is that's who was directing, co ordinating and financing it right from the get go. It was never going to get any better, only worse. Because these revolutionaries were nothing other than a shower of cunts to begin with . Who actively called for the likes of IS to come into Syria from across the globe and openly welcomed them as their shock troops. Only after the scorpion stung them later on did they blame Assad for it .
But this was all perfectly foreseeable. Their agenda and those of their backers was never a progressive one no matter what bollocks any deluded crank spouts on here . It was a sectarian and backward one from the get go , with a few liberal buzzwords chucked in for western consumption. For the idiots to nod approvingly at over their breakfasts .

 

[Casually Red]

Hope your not suggesting Casually Red is one of these? However wrong or objectionable people might find his opinions, I have never doubted these are his personally held opinions.

Of course he's suggesting it. There's an entire gang of wankers running about this board who've been openly saying it for years. A few who claim I'm in the actual pay of the kremlin even. They're on this thread.

Oh aye, I'm a neo nazi as well. No messing about. An actual proper neo nazi, in the pay of the kremlin. Who'd have thunk it. The self proclaimed board bigwigs regularly throw that one out . And attach snide little likes to it too . It's official . Its enough to make me lose my temper and want to invade the Sudetenland .

The massive wankers.

 

[DotCommunist]

everyones scheming to get you banned as well, we've all been at it for ages.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I always imagine CR to be a bloke with frizzy, curly hair sitting at a seven year old desktop pc doing lines of speed, chain smoking constantly and knocking back shoulders of czar whilst he angrily jabs at the keyboard with nicotine stained fingers, ash falling between keys encrusted with various substances built up over the years. Is any of this even remotely accurate, CR? I doubt all of it is but I reckon I'm on the mark with some of it.

 

[bluescreen]

Ew. That's not remotely how I imagine CR.
Please. Let's not get personal.

 

[bimble]

Of course he's suggesting it. There's an entire gang of wankers running about this board who've been openly saying it for years. A few who claim I'm in the actual pay of the kremlin even. They're on this thread.
The massive wankers.

Was not seriously suggesting that at all. Sometimes you do come across as comically eager to defend (or failing that deny) everything Russia does but.. What you've been saying about there being massive support for Assad in Syria, and how nobody wants to answer that point is interesting. Also I am not a he so there, not that that in any way disqualifies me from being a massive wanker or anything.

 

[teqniq]

Imo there isn't massive support for Assad; at best I would guess it to be 50/50 and it is just a guess which is all anyone can probably come up with. What he does have is the army, a brutal security services, Iran, Hezbollah and Russia.

 

[bimble]

What he does have is the army

This is interesting, someone trying to explain why the army has been so loyal.

"Army officers have access to a benefits system that links nearly every aspect of their professional and personal lives to the regime, and this places them in an antagonistic relationship with the rest of society."

Assad’s Officer Ghetto: Why the Syrian Army Remains Loyal

 

[frogwoman]

By the way according to wikipedia the Iraqi army has also been using barrel bombs and so has Sudan.

 

[camouflage]

By the way according to wikipedia the Iraqi army has also been using barrel bombs and so has Sudan.

Yup, frankly it's barbaric and indecent for a gentleman to use anything less than Lockheed when it comes to flattening civilian infrastructure. Only a brute merely stuffs explosives into a barrel to drop upon the enemy (and from some shabby not-Apache helicopter no less!).

 

[agricola]

Yup, frankly it's barbaric and indecent for a gentleman to use anything less than Lockheed when it comes to flattening civilian infrastructure. Only a brute merely stuffs explosives into a barrel to drop upon the enemy (and from some shabby not-Apache helicopter no less!).

TBH it is probably suicidal against any kind of opposition from the ground.

 

[frogwoman]

Yup, frankly it's barbaric and indecent for a gentleman to use anything less than Lockheed when it comes to flattening civilian infrastructure. Only a brute merely stuffs explosives into a barrel to drop upon the enemy (and from some shabby not-Apache helicopter no less!).

huh? why are you defending this? you know full well i oppose all bombing of civilian areas. there's no need to trivialise what he's doing.

 

[camouflage]

huh? why are you defending this? you know full well i oppose all bombing of civilian areas. there's no need to trivialise what he's doing.

I'm of the opinion that war should not have been forced on Syria in the first place. Once a war kicks off, participants tend to throw in whatever they've got. Part of why it's so worrying that NATO member Turkey; under the control of the Erdogan regime, has taken to shooting down Russian jets. As a British citizen I find it hard to start condeming the Syrian regime for their tactics while the political class of my own country boasts about packing Trident for if anyone fucks with us. By this I am not saying I am defending Assads methods of fighting that war, I condemn the war itself. You can't assert that a head of state should be removed forcibly and yet somehow (magical thinking) assert that this doesn't mean war on that nation.

 

[frogwoman]

i don't see assad as solely responsible for the conflict, but you can can recognise it's a bit more complex than him/russia being to blame for everything and still not trivilalising their actions, which it seems like you were doing in that post.

 

[teqniq]

I'm of the opinion that war should not have been forced on Syria in the first place. Once a war kicks off, participants tend to throw in whatever they've got. Part of why it's so worrying that NATO member Turkey; under the control of the Erdogan regime, has taken to shooting down Russian jets. As a British citizen I find it hard to start condeming the Syrian regime for their tactics while the political class of my country boasts about packing Trident for if anyone fucks with us. By this I am not saying I am defending Assads methods of fighting that war, I condemn the war itself.

You know it's a civil war, right? Something to do with government forces firing on unarmed protestors kicked it all off I seem to recall. Third parties did not get involved until later so I don't really see how war got 'forced' on Syria.

 

[camouflage]

You know it's a civil war, right? Something to do with government forces firing on unarmed protestors kicked it all off I seem to recall. Third parties did not get involved until later so I don't really see how war got 'forced' on Syria.

1. (S) Summary. The SARG ends 2006 in a much stronger position domestically and internationally than it did 2005. While there may be additional bilateral or multilateral pressure that can impact Syria, the regime is based on a small clique that is largely immune to such pressure. However, Bashar Asad's growing self-confidence )- and reliance on this small clique -- could lead him to make mistakes and ill-judged policy decisions through trademark emotional reactions to challenges, providing us with new opportunities. For example, Bashar,s reaction to the prospect of Hariri tribunal and to publicity for Khaddam and the National Salvation Front borders on the irrational. Additionally, Bashar,s reported preoccupation with his image and how he is perceived internationally is a potential liability in his decision making process. We believe Bashar,s weaknesses are in how he chooses to react to looming issues, both perceived and real, such as a the conflict between economic reform steps (however limited) and entrenched, corrupt forces, the Kurdish question, and the potential threat to the regime from the increasing presence of transiting Islamist extremists. This cable summarizes our assessment of these vulnerabilities and suggests that there may be actions, statements, and signals that the USG can send that will improve the likelihood of such opportunities arising.

Cable: 06DAMASCUS5399_a

There is ample evidence to suggest that the militarization of these issues within Syria did not originate from within the country.

 

[butchersapron]

What's that got to do with you justifying barrel bomb attacks on civilians?

 

[camouflage]

"To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

-Nuremberg judgement.

accumulated evil including barrel bombs I might add. An attempt at forcible regime change of a nation states leadership counts as war of aggression I think.

 

[frogwoman]

Syria’s many moderate rebels

 

[bimble]

Syria’s many moderate rebels

"While a moderate opposition exists within Syria, its continued reliance on [Nusra] as a partner against Assad will degrade the possible mechanisms whereby those rebels can reject [Nusra's] influence in the long-term." For Western policymakers there are serious legal, as well as political, risks in supporting factions of the Syrian rebellion after Al-Qaeda has been allowed this long to embed itself within the insurgency. .. Al-Qaeda is marching toward erecting a base of operations that is wholly integrated into the local terrain in Syria from which to wage its global holy war.'

 

[rekil]

On the subject of wikileaks cables, this one on Rami Makhlouf is a doozy. What a cunt.

Embassy contacts report that Makhlouf is anticipating his eventual designation, and that he has taken steps to lower his profile and mitigate risk to his personal fortune.

Rami Makhlouf: Buying Syria One Bank at a Time

Makhlouf, known by some critics as “Mr. Five Percent” – a reference to an alleged mandatory share he commands in any new business venture – is believed to have dominated much of the Syrian economy. He has a hand in the finance sector, tourism, restaurants, real estate, duty free shops, the oil sector, telecommunications, media, and much more.

Makhlouf 'repented' and vowed to leave business by liquidating his 40 percent holding in Syriatel, promising to allocate the funds solely to humanitarian work. Many have argued that he was able to monopolize economic power – with a personal wealth estimated to reach into the billion dollar range – due to his familial ties with the regime, becoming one of the symbols of corruption and impunity. Thus, the companies he owned, especially Syriatel, were one of the first to be targeted by protesters when the Syrian uprising began in March 2011.

Syria's Makhlouf owes fortune and infamy to Assad

Just three months ago it would have been unthinkable to have even criticized him and Assad told businessmen last year, before the uprising against him: "I wish Syria had 10 Rami Makhloufs."

Yet by March, his name was already being uttered by demonstrators trying to burn down the premises of his telecoms operation while chanting: "Go away Makhlouf. We don't want thieves."

 

[butchersapron]

Funder of the Shabiha.

 

[butchersapron]

That's pro-assasd people who go into villages and massacre civilians with knifes btw for those who'll not click.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Cable: 06DAMASCUS5399_a

There is ample evidence to suggest that the militarization of these issues within Syria did not originate from within the country.

Thanks for posting this, was interesting to read the nakedness of how power operates away from public scrutiny. However, I don't think it makes the case that western countries have financially and militarily armed Islamist groups. It even says in the conclusion that not enough is known about anti regime islamist forces although elements inside its gulf state allies certainly have. This whole argument that 'everything that happens in the Niddle East' is 100% down to the scheming of Western governments is pretty tiresome. I'm sure if Russian cables were leaked there would be similar writings about regimes they don't support.

 

[butchersapron]

Here's pretty much the only non-gory thing that could be posted about these drugged up thugs

 

[rekil]

The politics of envy.

 

[camouflage]

Syria’s many moderate rebels

70,000?

 

[camouflage]

Thanks for posting this, was interesting to read the nakedness of how power operates away from public scrutiny. However, I don't think it makes the case that western countries have financially and militarily armed Islamist groups. It even says in the conclusion that not enough is known about anti regime islamist forces although elements inside its gulf state allies certainly have. This whole argument that 'everything that happens in the Niddle East' is 100% down to the scheming of Western governments is pretty tiresome. I'm sure if Russian cables were leaked there would be similar writings about regimes they don't support.

I agree to an extent, I find it tiresome when people talk about Sykes-Picot in that whole "it was like this when I got here in my C130" kind if way. No nation state is not the product of some cynical band of chancers out to break off and divy-up a peice of something, and I include the UK in that. But decades went by, people were born and lived their lives, and human beings are able to not kill each other despite the existence of other ethnicities/religions/star-signs living next door.

The point I was making re the cables is that its important to avoid what I've taken to thinking of as September-Tenism. Assads reactions were part of a greater escalation of events that the narrative here deep in the heat of Natoland usually neglects to include, our own dirty hands help set this thing up.

 

[butchersapron]

I agree to an extent, I find it tiresome when people talk about Sykes-Picot in that whole "it was like this when I got here in my C130" kind if way. No nation state is not the product of some cynical band of chancers out to break off a peice of something, and I include the UK in that. But decades went by, people were born and lived their lives, and human beings are able to not kill each other despite the existence of other ethnicities/religions/star-signs living next door.

The point I was making re the cables is that its important to avoid what I've taken to thinking of as September-Tenism. Assads reactions were part of a greater escalation of events that the narrative here deep in the heat of Natoland usually neglects to include, our own dirty hands help set this thing up.

You pinochet dog.