camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Pet-Left.
And next, Syria?
- Thread starter Idris2002
- Start date
Pet-Left.
coley
Well-Known Member
Not based on this cable, there isn't.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
So even by your own conservative, anti syrian estimation , significantly more than Cameron, or Obama . Or...Hollande.
I wouldn't exactly class these news outlets as either pro Syrian or pro Russian , but even those hostile to him admit he's pretty damn popular among his own people , especially the young .
Syrian election shows depth of popular support for Assad, even among Sunni majority
Syria: As the bombs fall, the people of Damascus rally round Bashar al-Assad
Democracy Damascus style: Assad the only choice in referendum
Last edited:
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Was not seriously suggesting that at all. Sometimes you do come across as comically eager to defend (or failing that deny) everything Russia does but.. What you've been saying about there being massive support for Assad in Syria, and how nobody wants to answer that point is interesting. Also I am not a he so there, not that that in any way disqualifies me from being a massive wanker or anything.
This threads been going 4 years or so . Theres been virtually zero analysis or acceptance of what is a very important and crucial issue ...the central issue...in all that time .The abuse and derision evident over the last few pages when the Cameronbot " Assad must go " narrative is challenged, by pointing out that doesn't seem to be what the Syrians want themselves , is evidence of why .
And yet they accuse me of blind partisanship. 4 fucking years it's been staring them in the face . But barely a word of acknowledgement of the patently bloody obvious . Assad has mass support among his own people. From all sectors of Syrian life . And that's the primary reason why he's still in power .
Which leads one to the conclusion many on here who proclaim such concern and empathy for the syrian people really couldn't give a flying fuck about them when alls said and done. And that " the Syrian people " are really only useful when it comes to their own world view and own agenda . As dead victims of a state they want to see overthrown they have a utility and a worth . As ammunition . But not as live supporters of a nation struggling for sovereignty and survival . Or indeed as dead martyrs in that struggle .
They don't even remotely consider them in that light , and are wholly hostile to the very notion of it , because they really couldn't give a toss about them unless they can be portrayed as useful to their own biased narrative .
If I'm wrong then the 4 years this thread has been in existence would have regularly been discussing the issue of Assads support . It patently hasn't been . Yet even media outlets deeply hostile to the Syrian nation have reluctantly admitted he seems to have the bulk of the people behind him, particularly the young, and that however flawed the election methodology, turn out in his support was undeniably massive . Both within and without of Syria .
Last edited:
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
It entails the destruction of that nation itself, and well they know it . All of them. With all their empathy and concern and abhorrence . They know well what it means if that happens but still they want it. They're of the Albright mentality.."worth it ".
Last edited:
bimble
floofy
Casually Red Thanks for the 3 links from mainstream outlets that you use to illustrate the point about massive popular support for Assad. I'm not saying you're wrong, how would I know, but having read them what comes across most clearly to me is just that, the fact that we just can't possibly know because in the climate he's created nobody can speak freely, especially to these journalists.
You say "even media outlets deeply hostile to the Syrian nation have reluctantly admitted he seems to have the bulk of the people behind him" but the articles you've posted to illustrate this are deeply ambiguous:
From the fox news one:
"It is difficult to ascertain the popularity or discontent with Assad inside Syria.. The country has a pervasive security apparatus in place that punishes people for speaking out against the ruling establishment... ""I think it's a duty to vote for Assad," said Arfan Jumra, a 45-year-old civil servant."
From the telegraph one:
I have only been in Damascus a few days and have been out of the city just once, on a government-sponsored trip [..] I have not spoken to the opposition (travel in rebel-held areas is impossibly hazardous: many journalists have been kidnapped). I have been accompanied for much of the time by a government minder.
from guardian one :
"President Assad does seem genuinely popular, especially with younger people, though there is no opinion polling. Fear of the Mukhabarat secret police is pervasive. Jokes abound about the man who once dared to tick the no box and was dragged back by his terrified mother to beg to be allowed to vote again. "Don't worry," the officials reply. "We've changed it for you - but just this once."
Just saying I don't know either way and not sure how you can either.
My dad grew up in Communist Czechoslovakia, marching and enthusiastically waving red flags but, you know, it wasn't real love it was terror.
You say "even media outlets deeply hostile to the Syrian nation have reluctantly admitted he seems to have the bulk of the people behind him" but the articles you've posted to illustrate this are deeply ambiguous:
From the fox news one:
"It is difficult to ascertain the popularity or discontent with Assad inside Syria.. The country has a pervasive security apparatus in place that punishes people for speaking out against the ruling establishment... ""I think it's a duty to vote for Assad," said Arfan Jumra, a 45-year-old civil servant."
From the telegraph one:
I have only been in Damascus a few days and have been out of the city just once, on a government-sponsored trip [..] I have not spoken to the opposition (travel in rebel-held areas is impossibly hazardous: many journalists have been kidnapped). I have been accompanied for much of the time by a government minder.
from guardian one :
"President Assad does seem genuinely popular, especially with younger people, though there is no opinion polling. Fear of the Mukhabarat secret police is pervasive. Jokes abound about the man who once dared to tick the no box and was dragged back by his terrified mother to beg to be allowed to vote again. "Don't worry," the officials reply. "We've changed it for you - but just this once."
Just saying I don't know either way and not sure how you can either.
My dad grew up in Communist Czechoslovakia, marching and enthusiastically waving red flags but, you know, it wasn't real love it was terror.
Last edited:
teqniq
DisMembered
Do not presume to ascribe positions to me that I do not hold. I am anti regime, who it bears repeating for the nth time have killed far more of the Syrian people than anyone else. Also anti IS and the various Al-Qaeda types, not anti Syrian. Which is not the same thing.
It also bears repeating that there are very few 'good guys' in this war.
Moreover I see you are wibbling on about the massively flawed 'elections' that have already been amply deconstructed upthread.
Last edited:
coley
Well-Known Member
A popular leader has no need to resort to shooting or barrel bombing the opposition, but then again, it seems an Assad family tradition to slaughter the opposition in order to maintain their 'popularity'
rekil
to menny cranks
The conditions may not have conformed with the degenerate western buttplug worshipping so-called left's standards of 'fairness' but Pinochet's 1980 constitution referendum was carried with a whopping 67%. Why are you anti-Chilean? At the same time, Assad = Allende.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
I hope I'm mistaken in my interpretation of this statement by Blackbird Leys IWCA. Are they and IWCA nationally supporting airstrikes in Syria ?
If so is this organisation supporting airstrikes supporting Kurds; naïve policy at best, or any airstrikes by the West and for that matter Assad & Russia ?
"Thanks. Those who proclaim support for the YPG but oppose aerial bombing in support of the YPG are being somewhat inconsistant. The YPG are the ones risking their necks and sacrificing their lives on the front line, but armchair activists (and sadly many real otherwise decent activists) patronisingly brush aside the Kurds insistance that they need airstrikes to win the war against ISIS. This shows a remarkable lack of respect and queasy lack of confidence in the YPG."
Blackbird Leys IWCA
If so is this organisation supporting airstrikes supporting Kurds; naïve policy at best, or any airstrikes by the West and for that matter Assad & Russia ?
"Thanks. Those who proclaim support for the YPG but oppose aerial bombing in support of the YPG are being somewhat inconsistant. The YPG are the ones risking their necks and sacrificing their lives on the front line, but armchair activists (and sadly many real otherwise decent activists) patronisingly brush aside the Kurds insistance that they need airstrikes to win the war against ISIS. This shows a remarkable lack of respect and queasy lack of confidence in the YPG."
Blackbird Leys IWCA
Last edited:
andysays
Love and solidarity
Calling for aerial bombing in support of the YPG seems to pre-suppose that there is some power willing and able to carry it out who respond to the call.
Who are the IWCA suggesting will be carrying out this bombing? To argue that anyone currently carrying out bombing or likely/able to do so is meaningfully "supportive of the YPG" strikes me as nonsensical
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh but what's the point of being a popular leader if you can't be nasty to the opposition?
bimble
floofy
Here's a helpful idea (i think): We're all suffering from millenarianism, not just the beardies us too.
"To take only the most obvious example, an eschatological turn of mind lay behind a good deal of the support for the Iraq War.. Sometimes this thinking was explicitly religious, as with the American Christian fundamentalists who supported the war as a prelude to Armageddon; but the same mentality was expressed by neoconservatives who saw regime change as the start of a "global democratic revolution", and by liberal interventionists who imagined that toppling Saddam Hussein would inaugurate a new world order ruled by human rights. In each case, the particularities of Iraq .. were ignored, the warnings of history lost in an epiphany of a new world.'
The book that changed my life
"To take only the most obvious example, an eschatological turn of mind lay behind a good deal of the support for the Iraq War.. Sometimes this thinking was explicitly religious, as with the American Christian fundamentalists who supported the war as a prelude to Armageddon; but the same mentality was expressed by neoconservatives who saw regime change as the start of a "global democratic revolution", and by liberal interventionists who imagined that toppling Saddam Hussein would inaugurate a new world order ruled by human rights. In each case, the particularities of Iraq .. were ignored, the warnings of history lost in an epiphany of a new world.'
The book that changed my life
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
a triumph of hope over common sense.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
A new edgy travel destination. What's not to like. Well other than maybe travel insurance costs and suprise YouTube appearances.
rekil
to menny cranks
I propose that we all chip in and buy a one way ticket for caj fash. As part of the package they might let him hack cocks off 13 year old kids or something.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
All e the other bullshit by assorted wankers aside .but has this actually happened ? Ahave the ICWa actually done this?
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Well he does sadly when they consist of a bunch of rabidly sectarian maniacs who've descended on Syria from the corners of the earth. And they've been armed ,trained and financed by a host of hostile states , including a military superpower . Cuba had to contend with this type of thing at the Bay of pigs. Nicaragua had to contend with it in the 1980s . Same with Angola and Mozambique.
Last edited:
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Moreover I see you are wibbling on about the massively flawed 'elections' that have already been amply deconstructed upthread.
Were they fuck.
bimble
floofy
Good morning! It must be awful for him yes. Presumably you've been too busy to respond to the stuff above, suggesting that neither me nor you can possibly guess how many Syrians actually love Dr. Assad and how many are just terrified.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Congratulations for characterising the entire opposition to Assad as "a bunch of rabidly sectarian maniacs who've descended on Syria from the corners of the earth".
I suppose simply dismissing them all this way means that anyone who gets in the way of one of his barrel bombs simply gets what was coming to them and their deaths are somehow all the responsibility of hostile external states, nothing to do with Assad at all, oh no.
More disgusting delusion from the murderer's friend...
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
I can certainly . Earlier in the thread I posted links to Syrian refugees in Lebanon heading for the polling booths in the Syrian embassy . The traffic jams from people trying to get there were that bad they started abandoning their cars at the side of the road and walking in their thousands to get there . They queued for hours in the heat , the Lebanese fire brigade had to come in with hoses to keep them hydrated . And they were still there until 12 at night .
Yet we are told these people are fleeing from Assad and are his victims . Plainly they don't see themselves in that light . They're outside of Syria , there's no fearsome apparatus making them do it .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
The " moderate " Syrian opposition called repeatedly for these maniacs to come to Syria from the 4 corners of the earth. They boasted their friends were coming to help them. Gloated about it . Called them their brothers .And they're embedded with them to this day . It's the maniacs who still do most of their fighting for them . If they're not a maniac themselves they're a friend of one. A " brother " , in fact . Is what they call them .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Is it ok to ask you CR to do a one sentence explanation of your view of what's going on in Syria please?
I don't think one sentence can do any justice to a sometimes complicated subject . And it would just lead to a chorus of wails about me being overly simplistic from the cameronbots and detract from the subject at hand . However that's not going to put me off .
The Syrian people are defending their country and its sovereignty from foreign backed and foreign inspired aggression.
Similar threads
