And next, Syria?

[Libertad]

The Middle East as It Will Be

That's a very depressing read.

 

[bimble]

That's a very depressing read.

Yep. Great start to a Monday.

 

[frogwoman]

US-led coalition air strike 'targets Assad regime forces' for the first time in Syria

Nobody could have predicted this, obviously.

 

[teqniq]

but unsurprisingly in a they would say that anyway sort of way

 

[J Ed]

Let's deal with the Devil: we should work with Vladimir Putin and Bashar al-Assad in Syria says Boris Johnson

 

[butchersapron]

Why would they deliberately 'target' them with airstrikes when their recent actions have been in implicit/covert support of the regime? There are similar suggestions that russians did this - they are not being targeted as deliberately targeting him/them though.

 

[J Ed]

Let's deal with the Devil: we should work with Vladimir Putin and Bashar al-Assad in Syria says Boris Johnson

Apparently he wants to do a deal with someone he compared to Hitler..

 

[kebabking]

US-led coalition air strike 'targets Assad regime forces' for the first time in Syria

Nobody could have predicted this, obviously.

lets wait and see, 50p says its a Russian strike that went wrong - the logic is simple: firstly, despite the reluctant acceptance that to some degree or other, the regime or its adherants will play a role in whatever passes as the 'new Syria', neither the US nor its allies has any interest in helping to take pressure off the Assad faction. so, the idea that a US aircraft attacked an IS target that was firing on an Assad forces is unlikely, secondly the Russians do have just such an interest, however, their bombing accuracy is, erm... less focused.

so, 50p to the charity of your choice says it turns out to be a Russian airstrike in support of Assad forces that went wrong, and the Russians/Syrians' are trying to direct the blame elsewhere.

 

[frogwoman]

lets wait and see, 50p says its a Russian strike that went wrong - the logic is simple: firstly, despite the reluctant acceptance that to some degree or other, the regime or its adherants will play a role in whatever passes as the 'new Syria', neither the US nor its allies has any interest in helping to take pressure off the Assad faction. so, the idea that a US aircraft attacked an IS target that was firing on an Assad forces is unlikely, secondly the Russians do have just such an interest, however, their bombing accuracy is, erm... less focused.

so, 50p to the charity of your choice says it turns out to be a Russian airstrike in support of Assad forces that went wrong, and the Russians/Syrians' are trying to direct the blame elsewhere.

sure, but it shows what can go "wrong" when so many countries are bombing one place ...

 

[Pickman's model]

Apparently he wants to do a deal with someone he compared to Hitler..

 

[kebabking]

sure, but it shows what can go "wrong" when so many countries are bombing one place ...

oh it does - gangfuck and confusion reigns, and i don't doubt there will be far worse before this is over, however what it really shows is how focused the Assad faction is on what it sees as its main effort - not IS, but the other groups its currently fighting. if its focus was on IS, its first priority would not have been to attempt to either heap blame on those bombing IS, or on those who are providing those other groups with training, equipment etc..

getting rid of that support - both logistic and kinetic - is the absolute priority of the Assad faction, this just illustrates that.

 

[rekil]

Let's deal with the Devil: we should work with Vladimir Putin and Bashar al-Assad in Syria says Boris Johnson

The lion of damascus will never cooperate with the satanic imperialists!

 

[irf520]

oh it does - gangfuck and confusion reigns, and i don't doubt there will be far worse before this is over, however what it really shows is how focused the Assad faction is on what it sees as its main effort - not IS, but the other groups its currently fighting. if its focus was on IS, its first priority would not have been to attempt to either heap blame on those bombing IS, or on those who are providing those other groups with training, equipment etc..

getting rid of that support - both logistic and kinetic - is the absolute priority of the Assad faction, this just illustrates that.

Well there is also the slight issue that the terrority in closest proximity to government held territory is held by Nusra and various other head chopper / liver eater types rather than by IS per se. So how would you suggest that Assad's army takes on IS without dealing with the others first?

 

[kebabking]

Well there is also the slight issue that the terrority in closest proximity to government held territory is held by Nusra and various other head chopper / liver eater types rather than by IS per se. So how would you suggest that Assad's army takes on IS without dealing with the others first?

actually, you underline my point - Assad has little interest in IS because its not his immediate problem, infact - as has been suggested before - IS is helpful, if unintentionally, to Assad, as IS is a bigger problem to the various other groups than they are to Assad. this shows the rather ludacrous suggestions that Assad et al are the cure for IS to be utter rubbish. personally, i take the view that Assad has written off IS controlled/influenced eastern Syria, and he's happy to leave them to it while their main focus is on holding/expanding territory thats well away from him.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A senior U.S. military official says the United States is "certain" that it was a Russian airstrike that killed three Syrian soldiers and wounded 13 others.

News from The Associated Press

 

[TomUS]

Oh no, not again. I doubt Obama would launch another land invasion but the next pres might, and will for sure if it's a Repub.

The survey also finds that a majority of Americans -- 53 percent -- now favor sending ground troops into combat to fight ISIS. This is a shift from previous CNN surveys, which have consistently shown Americans to be against deploying troops since the question was first asked in September 2014.

Sixty-nine percent of Republicans and those that lean Republican support sending troops compared to 36 percent of Democrats and those that lean Democrat.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...troops-to-fight-isis_56650050e4b072e9d1c68d44

 

[Casually Red]

oh it does - gangfuck and confusion reigns, and i don't doubt there will be far worse before this is over, however what it really shows is how focused the Assad faction is on what it sees as its main effort - not IS, but the other groups its currently fighting. if its focus was on IS, its first priority would not have been to attempt to either heap blame on those bombing IS, or on those who are providing those other groups with training, equipment etc..

getting rid of that support - both logistic and kinetic - is the absolute priority of the Assad faction, this just illustrates that.

This is completely idiotic. If the Syrian army turned its back on the other armed groups they'd simply be slaughtered by them . It's the other armed groups who are preventing the Syrian army from focussing solely on IS.
Such a suggestion is ridiculous . It's just more of the usual disinformation and deliberate confusion mongering .

 

[Casually Red]

actually, you underline my point - Assad has little interest in IS because its not his immediate problem, infact - as has been suggested before - IS is helpful, if unintentionally, to Assad, as IS is a bigger problem to the various other groups than they are to Assad. this shows the rather ludacrous suggestions that Assad et al are the cure for IS to be utter rubbish. personally, i take the view that Assad has written off IS controlled/influenced eastern Syria, and he's happy to leave them to it while their main focus is on holding/expanding territory thats well away from him.

Again more rubbish . From the outset Assads military and political strategy has been to hold bases at all costs right across Syria . To keep an army presence in every corner no matter how isolated . That's a matter of public record and has been regularly commented upon .

We can easily see who views IS as helpful . The United states openly admits it refused to attack the thousands of IS barbarians massing in broad daylight in the open desert around Palmyra because to do so would have been to "assist the regime " . So they sat back and effectively made IS their proxy . And Palmyra fell .

US planes were regularly returning to base still carrying bombs , claiming to have been unable to find IS targets. There were literally thousands of them besieging Kweres air base for almost 3 years . Just sitting there . Frequently massing waves of vehicles for swarm attack after swarm attack. They were deliberately left untouched . Same too with Deir EzZor , which they still besiege in their thousands . Because its under Syrian control they leave Daesh completely alone .

And then there were those massive IS truck convoys stretching for absolutely miles across the open desert that the yanks somehow couldn't see until Putin attacked them and showed the world the evidence . Never touched .

Assad hasn't written of anywhere. Lifting the siege of Kweres took massive resources, but it was done. Deir EzZor will be liberated too. As will Palmyra.
Syrian forces are advancing all over the place against IS. IS are only starting to crumble now that there's a properly equipped air force working in close support of a proper force on the ground. Syrian and Russian. Prior to that the yanks were just making a token show of opposing them , and talking about " containing them " for the next ten years . But plainly not containing them while they were advancing on government held territory. Then they were..and remain to this day..a convenient proxy to attack government held areas . Who have no fear of NATO air strikes as long as they attack the right people.

That's why this western campaign isn't remotely serious. It's a joke. A NATO partner is up to its Turkish bollocks with IS, has been for years and everyone knows it . And the real policy , as opposed to the rhetoric, is largely inline with that. It's basically fine when IS attacks government held areas. And they're cracking up because Putin put a spanner in that particular works .

 

[Casually Red]

Assad has little interest in IS because its not his immediate problem, infact - as has been suggested before - IS is helpful, if unintentionally, to Assad, as IS is a bigger problem to the various other groups than they are to Assad. this shows the rather ludacrous suggestions that Assad et al are the cure for IS to be utter rubbish.

This doesn't make an ounce of sense. If there's 1000 head hackers on the front line , and IS come along and kill them all, all that means is there's a bigger and better motivated and armed group of head hackers facing Syrian troops than there were before , with different initials . Nothing more . It makes as much sense to claim " the moderate " head hackers are helping the Syrian army when they attack IS .

What is certainly beficial to the Syrian army are that sporadically ALL these groups engage in conflict with one another . No doubt about that . Because when the moderate head hackers and the IS head hackers were all such good mates a few years back and carrying out joint attacks , as brothers, things looked pretty grim . But a few people on here reckon that's " apologism" to be pointing it out .

 

[coley]

The Middle East as It Will Be

No, more the Middle East as it is, good summary but offers no answers.

 

[coley]

Let's deal with the Devil: we should work with Vladimir Putin and Bashar al-Assad in Syria says Boris Johnson

Aye, can't argue with the broad logic of what he's saying, the option to bomb indiscriminately for X number of years doesn't make sense.
Though the West should make recognising Kurdish demands for a kurdish state a lynchpin for any future agreement and stuff any Turkish objections.

 

[coley]

Show me the alternative and let's debate it. Please . Just show me a platform and programme....the bare bones of one . The barest minimum...show me it .

Ok, all parties agree on a joint programme to eliminate all ISIL forces demanding a "caliphate" the rights of the Kurds to their own state being recognised, Assad agreeing to elections being supervised by the EU ( not perfect I agree, but better than having the US or Russia involved) and all parties agreeing to respect the result of said properly constituted election( with long/medium) oversight as necessary)
But prior to this, a UN led re-demarcation of borders to accommodate the realities on the ground of the various ethnic groupings and to reinstate ( by force if necessary) those who have been dispossessed.
OK, bit of on the back of an envelopeI agree,but a basis for a sensible conversation?

 

[DownwardDog]

Russians do have just such an interest, however, their bombing accuracy is, erm... less focused.

Su-24 nav kit. LOL.

That's a mil spec rubber band holding it in.

 

[Casually Red]

Ok, all parties agree on a joint programme to eliminate all ISIL forces demanding a "caliphate" the rights of the Kurds to their own state being recognised, Assad agreeing to elections being supervised by the EU ( not perfect I agree, but better than having the US or Russia involved) and all parties agreeing to respect the result of said properly constituted election( with long/medium) oversight as necessary)
But prior to this, a UN led re-demarcation of borders to accommodate the realities on the ground of the various ethnic groupings and to reinstate ( by force if necessary) those who have been dispossessed.
OK, bit of on the back of an envelopeI agree,but a basis for a sensible conversation?

Well it's a sensible reply ..or a reply in a sensible vein..but I'd strongly disagree with it. Primarily because it's your own view, not anyone else's . And you aren't in charge of the insurgent war effort . Plus there isn't even any ethnic conflict as such .
What I meant was show me the platform of any opposition group that's remotely workable . Not your own solution .

 

[Patteran]

Local Coordination Committees Facebook reporting dire death toll in Hassakeh after coalition strikes on IS controlled village.

7-12-2015 Evening
20 Children in A Massacre in Hasaka

The International Coalition air combats committed a massacre that claimed the lives of 39 civilians including 20 children and 9 women in Khwitlet al-Khan village in Hasaka. The warplanes attacked the civilian houses in the ISIS-controlled village with several airstrikes.
In Aleppo, the Russian warplanes targeted a mosque in Kafr Hamra city in the northern suburbs, which killed 7 people including a woman. The surrounding of Darat Azza village was also exposed to 14 similar airstrikes.
In the same context, 2 martyrs and several wounded were reported in the vicinities of Marrat Noaman city to the south of Idlib due to Russian warplanes airstrikes on the area using vacuum missiles. Furthermore, Tamanaa town was exposed to a similar airstrike and no casualties were reported there.
In Homs, Assad's forces targeted a civilian car with a rocket, which led to several injuries.
In the Western Gouta of Damascus, Assad's forces targeted Darayya city with 3 surface-to-surface missiles (Fil missiles) and the helicopters dropped 16 barrel bombs on it this morning as well

 

[frogwoman]

 

[Casually Red]

Yesterday in Aleppo the moderates detonated a massive moderate tunnel bomb under a government held area, and followed it up with barrages of moderate mortars and rockets , causing serious civilian casualties .





Apparently they tried to set 2 of them off but the army intercepted one of them. Seems like revenge for all the territory they've been losing .

 

[Casually Red]

According to this Iran are sending a few aerial squadrons in now too, while more Syrian airbases are going to be operational to cope with the influx of Russian and Iranian hardware .

Iran’s air force to enter Syria conflict: report

In it to win it by the looks of things .

 

[sihhi]

The last traces of the (non-Kurdish) anti-Syrian armed forces anti-Assad democratic revolution, a dozen Free Syria Army groups are meeting in Riyadh

 

[coley]

Well it's a sensible reply ..or a reply in a sensible vein..but I'd strongly disagree with it. Primarily because it's your own view, not anyone else's . And you aren't in charge of the insurgent war effort . Plus there isn't even any ethnic conflict as such .
What I meant was show me the platform of any opposition group that's remotely workable . Not your own solution .

Why would you disagree with it?