So the reason you find this so shit is because their politics seem superficial and without... I don't know what word to use... Mandate?
Anarchists sabotage railway signalling in Bristol
- Thread starter emanymton
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So the reason you find this so shit is because their politics seem superficial and without... I don't know what word to use... Mandate?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The latest, the one he's concerned with. The one he asked about "I've seen people mention that this might bring "heat" on their own left wing group ". Then suggested it was justified - i.e this action.
Got a genuine answer.
Got a genuine answer.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What?
I didn't say it was justified. I said police stations seem like "fair game", by which I mean I didn't think too many leftists would be that bothered either way what someone else might chose to do to it. What with lots of them not liking the police very much, and having a bit of a thing for organised civil disobedience.
I just wondered why this was seen as different to other actions people might take.
That was me attempting to put into my own words my understanding of your words I had quoted, with the hope that you might correct or clarify if I had misunderstood something.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
But you'd already heard people talking about this action 5 minutes after it was posted?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Jesus, never do politics near me.
Literally, what are you talking about?
I wasn't planning on it.
You know, if you don't want to answer the question, you can just ignore it. I was hoping you and others might expand on what your issue with this was.
I thought earlier in the thread you spoke of people's doors going in. Will try and find it. Does he mean that?
This.
Attacking a railway line is hardly class politics is it? Is the driver landed gentry or something?
I fully understand the issue with the railway line. Fucks people up who are just trying to get to work. That was shit.
It's torching a cop fire arms centre that I'm less clear about people's objections to. Not that I think it's a particularly worthy action. I'm just a lot more ambiguous in my feelings on the matter.
JHE
.
Because it needlessly gets the old bills back up without actually damaging them in any way. So *known* anarchists are likely to get crap for actions not of their doing. Why don't they organise around workfare, the NHS or any of the other zillion things being attacked at the moment instead of this infantile James Bond shit?
Thanks for the answer.
I'd be interested to hear them address some of these criticisms. Who knows? Maybe they are doing some more formal organising and campaigns, etc. I suppose of they were, when they inevitably get caught, they would tar innocent associates with the same brush.
kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
I suspect that an institutions HQ being firebombed does "actually damage" in some way.
bi0boy
Power User
The lead instigator of such actions is probably a cop.
You only 'suspect' that a fire bomb causes damage?
What I meant was - seeing as you need it pointing out - it won't actually harm their operations so all in all it was an exercise in self indulgence.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-23861098
It's gone national now. Looking at the pics I'd say it was quite a fire they started.
Two things about this concern me. One is that it will have put firefighters at risk to put this blaze out, the other is that Avon & Somerset will more than likely be beating the bushes looking for whoever did this and that will cause a lot of disruption for other activists and groups. The plod won't just want to catch whoever did this, they'll be looking to save face and remind the Great Unwashed of who's in charge and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up kicking down doors, appearing on people's doorsteps with an air of 'We can discuss this at your home or drag you down to the station' and, while they're kicking down doors, also they may opt for some large-scale intelligence-gathering by seizing computers, paperwork, documents etc.
I'd also note that, according to the group's statement, the firearms training school they torched is directly beneath the Avon & Somerset Police regional HQ. Which, in the eyes of the plod, is likely to amount to a declaration of war.
There IS going to be a shitstorm over this.
It's gone national now. Looking at the pics I'd say it was quite a fire they started.
Two things about this concern me. One is that it will have put firefighters at risk to put this blaze out, the other is that Avon & Somerset will more than likely be beating the bushes looking for whoever did this and that will cause a lot of disruption for other activists and groups. The plod won't just want to catch whoever did this, they'll be looking to save face and remind the Great Unwashed of who's in charge and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up kicking down doors, appearing on people's doorsteps with an air of 'We can discuss this at your home or drag you down to the station' and, while they're kicking down doors, also they may opt for some large-scale intelligence-gathering by seizing computers, paperwork, documents etc.
I'd also note that, according to the group's statement, the firearms training school they torched is directly beneath the Avon & Somerset Police regional HQ. Which, in the eyes of the plod, is likely to amount to a declaration of war.
There IS going to be a shitstorm over this.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I'm going to be unconcscionably shallow here, and say that that was one of the most poorly-written press releases I've ever seen. It verged on Dave fucking Spart, for crying out loud.
And in case the author is reading this - sunshine, slashing tyres and pouring Nitromors on bodywork does superficial damage. Sand or sugar in the oil reservoir or fuel tank costs the owner/lessee or their insurer a new engine.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
There's several issues here, in my estimation:
1) The claiming of the fire by "radicals" provides the secret state with an excuse to intimidate people in the south-west with avowedly "alternative" politics to a greater extent than they already do.
2) The damage reports vary from "devastating" (the tabloids) to causing a "setback" (the construction companies). If the latter, then all they've done is put back completion by a couple of months a gesture rather than an effective action.
3) This doesn't actively inconvenience the Old Bill. The constabularies/police services still retain their individual ranges. All this has done is cause them to continue to use those facilities, rather than the shiny new one.
As I've said before on this thread, these folk seem to be all about striking poses and doing superficial headline-snatching stuff. That doesn't float my boat. If you're seriously committed to physical force anti-state action, you'd target infrastructure that has a direct and persistent effect on the state, not just hit targets-of-opportunity that generate headlines.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Destroying or undermining the local DWP/Jobcentreplus information hub would be more long-term praiseworthy, but nowhere near as publicity-garnering, though.
in theory, then, could you (or anyone else on this thread for that matter) support high risk, high damage attacks on public infrastructure, were the reasons behind the action ideologically sound?
would many of the same objections, re police response and media portrayal not apply?
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
i read and appreciate all the arguments against this from other anarchists and lefties. but there's not enough propaganda of the deed these days so i can't help approving.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I would. I saw how effective infrastructure sabotage was in Germany in stopping nuclear material being moved around the country unsafely.
I'm not just talking about public infrastructure, though, I'm talking about infrastructure per se, including the privately-owned media infrastructure.
My point was that if you're being "ideologically sound", then you can minimise the effects on people who aren't your targets, and that police harrassment and media misrepresentation will happen anyway, but without the added fillip of you, the activist, having provided a rod for your own back.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I agree that there isn't, but I'm firmly of the opinion that anyonne that way inclined that has a bit of nous can find a target that doesn't blow-back onto their entire political milieu, or if it does, can be exposed as being state noisemaking.
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