Anarchism. being somehow privileged or more advanced than others>
- Thread starter TremulousTetra
- Start date
Athos
Well-Known Member
Yes. But what does "... violent panda is more expert, is more advanced in the appreciation of progressive social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it, than a BNP member..." mean?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
he only caveat I would add to that, is that the expert/teacher who forgets how to learn, is no longer a teacher/expert. The situation between a activist, and the working class is dynamic. As the experience of the Russian Revolution shows. Often the working class can be in advance of the activist. Even if you are not part of the class, as in the case of Marx and Engels, you have to be organically connectedo the class, to achieve social change, social revolution.You totally rmp3ed that post (#87), butch.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
[quote="ResistanceMP3, post: 10917799, member: 5449"RMP3, please stop trying tthe knowledge of how to achieve ito suck up to the abusive panda. It makes me feel quite queasy and won't make him any less rude to you.]Hey, it could be VP, or any of my anarchist's comrades. They are all in my opinion, to quote a class struggle anarchist, " more advanced in the appreciation of progressive social change, in ,"[/quote]
Athos
Well-Known Member
But what do you mean when you say "more advanced in the appreciation of progressive social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it"?
I think that's more than half a dozen times I've asked you that question, by the way.
JHE
.
You're quoting yourself, I think. You're calling yourself an anarchist now? That could be fun, I suppose. Ernesto played the same game, before be was banned for some imaginary crime or other.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
i am not your comrade
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
a far right or fascist party cadre is almost certainly a cunt, but a cunt who's actual analysis of events and where conditions are going for the far right etc isn't necessarily wrong, and is often very astute at assessing the objective conditions for the growth of their party and the sentiments they're relying on for the rise of fascism, its support among the working and middle classes and its eventual seizure of power. if you ignore the fact that they're usually cunts (because that's not the same as being stupid) and look at their analysis of where the far right is at the moment, the bnp have certainly proved to be better - and more realsitic - at adapting their message and ideology to the conditions and their target audience than say the swappies have. The BNP for example grew from openly nazi origins to the BNP of today, not because they're not far right any more but because they recognised that their methods and what they outwardly appeared to believe were putting people off the far right. that doesn't mean they're right. it just means they're not stupid or politically "undeveloped".
It's the same with the tories. David cameron doesn't support cuts and attacks on disabled people because he's stupid. He might not even do it because he is scum (although being in the position he's in there was no way he would ever be, or ever be allowed to be by capital, anything but scum), but because of the logic of capital and defending his own class's interests. He is anything but stupid though.
as for this thread i don't think that people don't believe different political ideologies to marxism and socialism out of "stupidity" whatever that is. we live in and are products of a capitalist society and even many (or most) marxists have some reactionary ideas along the line that they will have picked up on the line. and frankly a lot of swappies come across as pretty fucking stupid a lot of the time.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
If you are not my comrade, then all you are is fertiliser for the peoples' runner beans.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Well said.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
rhubarb
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
custard
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Thank you!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Dialectical treats.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
RMP3 you cannot conflate expertise, being good at one particular task, with being involved in a process of pro-working class social change. You want to say that political power is justified... because of Steven Hawking. Come on! Not to mention that you're completely ignoring the clear maning in the Marx quote that Eoin posted up, that there would be no experts like our Hawking under Marx's vision of commumism. He would not be a half-person defined by a specialisation, that's an aspect of modern alienation. But you ignore this in favour of your own shoe-horn that wants to justify professional politicos.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
What sort of "social change"?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
one generally has a 2.1 and the other a 2.2
and we're off.
Hope someone- propaganda of the deeds your arse. Silly cunt.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Progressive austerity.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
one anarchist, doesn't know what another anarchist means? LOLhttp://www.eco-action.org/dod/no9/activism.htm
Experts
By 'an activist mentality' what I mean is that people think of themselves primarily as activists and as belonging to some wider community of activists. The activist identifies with what they do and thinks of it as their role in life, like a job or career. In the same way some people will identify with their job as a doctor or a teacher, and instead of it being something they just happen to be doing, it becomes an essential part of their self-image.
The activist is a specialist or an expert in social change. To think of yourself as being an activist means to think of yourself as being somehow privileged or more advanced than others in your appreciation of the need for social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it and as leading or being in the forefront of the practical struggle to create this change.
Activism, like all expert roles, has its basis in the division of labour - it is a specialised separate task. The division of labour is the foundation of class society, the fundamental division being that between mental and manual labour. The division of labour operates, for example, in medicine or education - instead of healing and bringing up kids being common knowledge and tasks that everyone has a hand in, this knowledge becomes the specialised property of doctors and teachers - experts that we must rely on to do these things for us. Experts jealously guard and mystify the skills they have. This keeps people separated and disempowered and reinforces hierarchical class society.
A division of labour implies that one person takes on a role on behalf of many others who relinquish this responsibility. A separation of tasks means that other people will grow your food and make your clothes and supply your electricity while you get on with achieving social change. The activist, being an expert in social change, assumes that other people aren't doing anything to change their lives and so feels a duty or a responsibility to do it on their behalf. Activists think they are compensating for the lack of activity by others. Defining ourselves as activists means definingour actions as the ones which will bring about social change, thus disregarding the activity of thousands upon thousands of other non-activists. Activism is based on this misconception that it is only activists who do social change - whereas of course class struggle is happening all the time.
who would have thunk it?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
bloody bowel flux.
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