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Anarchism. being somehow privileged or more advanced than others>

"The notion that you can abolish, or even deny expertise is illogical. That violent panda is more expert, is more advanced in the appreciation of social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it, than a BNP member, is obvious to me. Is it not obvious to you?"

The BNP member is also an "activist".

So even using your own argument, it is still not obvious.
BNP member IS an activist, an expert even, in social change. In the "revolution of despair". The social change of reaction. So you are partially correct I will concede.so I will slightly rephrase.

That violent panda is more expert, is more advanced in the appreciation of progressive social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it, than a BNP member, is obvious to me. Is it not obvious to you?"
 
BNP member IS an activist, an expert even, in social change. In the "revolution of despair". The social change of reaction. So you are partially correct I will concede.so I will slightly rephrase.

That violent panda is more expert, is more advanced in the appreciation of progressive social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it, than a BNP member, is obvious to me. Is it not obvious to you?"
 
I'll probably regret asking this, but what's the difference between an activist expert and a Leninist vanguard?
 
"The notion that you can abolish, or even deny expertise is illogical. That violent panda is more expert, is more advanced in the appreciation of social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it, than a BNP member, is obvious to me. Is it not obvious to you?"

The BNP member is also an "activist".

Who may very well have a great appreciation of social change and the knowledge of how to achieve it.

So even using your own argument, it is still not obvious.

Unless one makes the mistake of automatically assuming that a BNP member is ipso facto an intellectual inferior to an activist on the other side of the political divide.
 
do people still use "advanced" when they mean more radical/militant? Bit 1920s, isn't it?
You can have a radical or militant fascist, can't you? if fascism is reactionary, and going backwards away from the 'democracy' of capitalism, then surely the movement towards the real democracy of a classless society is more advanced? But if you can think of a better term, I don't mind using it.

That violent panda is more expert, is more advanced in the appreciation of progressive social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it, than a BNP member, is obvious to me. Is it not obvious to you?"
 
Sorry. Clumsy fingers.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say...anarchists are more expert in anarchism than non-anarchists?
 
You can have a radical or militant fascist, can't you? if fascism is reactionary, and going backwards away from the 'democracy' of capitalism, then surely the movement towards the real democracy of a classless society is more advanced? But if you can think of a better term, I don't mind using it.

We all speak from perspectives. You're speaking from a perspective, just as fascists speak from a perspective. You both also appear to make the error of mistaking your perspective for reality.
 
Sorry. Clumsy fingers.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say...anarchists are more expert in anarchism than non-anarchists?

It seems that what's happening is that rmp3 is naturalising his political perspective, and all his judgements about "better" or "worse" proceed from that.
 
That violent panda is more expert, is more advanced in the appreciation of progressive social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it, than a BNP member, is obvious to me. Is it not obvious to you?"
What an odd way to put it. Totally weird, unless you're trying to shoe-horn in some kind of apology for vanguardist leadership or something
 
Sorry. Clumsy fingers.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say...anarchists are more expert in anarchism than non-anarchists?
Well that concession to theFUCKING obvious would be a start. :D So we agree anarchists are more expert in anarchism than non-anarchists? ;)
 
It seems that what's happening is that rmp3 is naturalising his political perspective, and all his judgements about "better" or "worse" proceed from that.
Do you not agree that RMP3 is more expert, more 'advanced' at writing endlessly confused RMP3-style threads? Because I certainly do.
 
so what would be a better way? Anything? Any ideas whatsoever? VP has a greater inclination towards progressive social change, and how to achieve that, than a BNP member?
How about "I often agree with what VP writes, on social change and politics". Why do you have to bring in notions of expertise? Are you saying Vp is an anarchist brain surgeon? He is.
 
How about "I often agree with what VP writes, on social change and politics". Why do you have to bring in notions of expertise? Are you saying Vp is an anarchist brain surgeon? He is.
See OP class struggle Anarchists quote about expertise, and justify it. Explain it. Also;
And so the division of Labour that existed in the Paris commune between those who were elected to organise and the rest, that Marx supported and was to inspire his life's work?

I don't think destruction of the structures that compel a division of Labour on class grounds, capitalism, negate a division of Labour for Marx. For me the difference is, the product of the division of Labour is held in common, and the process of the division of Labour is held in common, by producing democratic structures that negate the power of the expert, manager, or anyone.

So those in the Paris commune who held the 'power' to lead and organise, had that 'power' negated by the fact they were paid the average wage, electable and sackable. They don't have power, because they are controlled by the common.

To deal with your specific point, That ie Stephen Hawkings would be free to fish, to hunt etc, does not mean he would be compelled to be distracted from his expertise. This would be ridiculous. However exploitation of the many through the use of his expertise would be negated by holding in common the product of his expertise.


The notion that you can abolish, or even deny expertise is illogical. That violent panda is more expert, is more advanced in the appreciation of social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it, than a BNP member, is obvious to me. Is it not obvious to you?


So for me the activist's are often NOT mistaken to believe "The activist is a specialist or an expert in social change. To think of yourself as being an activist means to think of yourself as being somehow privileged or more advanced than others in your appreciation of the need for social change, in the knowledge of how to achieve it and as leading or being in the forefront of the practical struggle to create this change." They often are more expert. Where they are mistaken is to believe that they can substitute for the working class, bring about social change on behalf of the working class. The emancipation of the working class, has to be the act of the working class, because until they know how to take power, they cannot know how to hold it in common and so negate it.


The only caveat I would add to that, is that the expert/teacher who forgets how to learn, is no longer a teacher/expert. The situation between a activist, and the working class is dynamic. As the experience of the Russian Revolution shows. Often the working class can be in advance of the activist. Even if you are not part of the class, as in the case of Marx and Engels, you have to be organically connected to the class, to achieve social change, social revolution.

[BTW violent Panda, I believe this last paragraph negates your argument about the socialist workers party not being part of the class. Though I don't necessarily accept your argument, the constituency of the SWP is not working class. We don't have the evidence to say one way or the other. I can only work off my own experience, and that says the vast majority of them were.]
 
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