Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[butchersapron]

I think you're searching hard for something nasty is all
I mean the price of holding facile, ill-thought-out political views that will never be able to have an impact is quite low for students in that (a) many of them are relatively comfortable, particularly globally speaking, and they won't lose much of that by holding crap political views (b) We're not in a time of large-scale leftist movements here and so in their heart of hearts they probably know that their 'radical' views will never be held by anyone except them and their friends, and they'll probably never have to defend it on national tv and so on.

Thank you for explaining, glad to hear that you didn't think what i thought you thought. The replies to the rest of your posts though - any response?

Why are you sepearating students with left wing views from non-students btw?

 

[sihhi]

Astonishing. So many claims, so many lies, so much hyperbole, so much self-love and self-mythology in so many words. Who is hiring the peoples press?

It ends with a note of disgust at the tie-wearing centre-right:

"Stepping out into the sparkling Docklands night, it felt like I had just attended the party at the end of the world. Televised debates may be new and exciting, but the magnitude of the crisis facing my generation is frighteningly misunderstood by the tie-wearing centre-right politicians of today."

 

[cesare]

It ends with a note of disgust at the tie-wearing centre-right:

"Stepping out into the sparkling Docklands night, it felt like I had just attended the party at the end of the world. Televised debates may be new and exciting, but the magnitude of the crisis facing my generation is frighteningly misunderstood by the tie-wearing centre-right politicians of today."

By Docklands she means fucking Canary Wharf, no doubt.

 

[sihhi]

By Docklands she means fucking Canary Wharf, no doubt.

Yes the Reuters building :

 

[Brainaddict]

Thank you for explaining, glad to hear that you didn't think what i thought you thought. The replies to the rest of your posts though - any response?

Why are you sepearating students with left wing views from non-students btw?

I don't know how useful it is to debate with someone who is never going to concede I've made a good point but will pounce on everything he considers incorrect like a starved dog on a raw steak

In a very general way, I think people's politics should be based on the world they experience around them and that theory can be useful to modulate and inform that a little. Grounding your politics mostly in theory results in some truly absurd positions and in developing your own weird language and this is prevalent among students and quite a lot of the non-student left too.
So I almost wince if someone describes themselves or even their organisation as 'marxist', or 'leninist' or 'autonomist' or 'anarchist'. Theory can be a tool and a weapon, I'm just not sure its useful when it becomes something to bind yourself to, a system of beliefs, an identifier. Theory can help reveal the world to people who use it but a lot of the time I think it does precisely the opposite, becoming more important to people than the problems, relationships, situations right in front of them.

 

[sihhi]

The ground floor foyer apparently:

"I was at the Orwell Prize party because my writing had been shortlisted for the award. But any amount of prizes, any amount of expensive canapes and any amount of televised right-wing pageantry will not make up for the manner in which the British political class has betrayed its poorest constituents and broken the hearts of its children.
On giant screens in the glittering Reuters foyer, Messrs Clegg, Cameron and Brown fought to score cheap laughs off each other's poster campaigns while appearing to be men of the people. ITV had to resort to a clunky gameshow formula to distinguish the speakers, with swooping close-ups and colour-coded ties - Gordon Brown chose a fetching metallic fuschia, presumably in order to deflect the impression that he had any sort of red flag around his neck."

 

[sihhi]

I don't know how useful it is to debate with someone who is never going to concede I've made a good point but will pounce on everything he considers incorrect like a starved dog on a raw steak

If you don't want to answer, don't, but this stuff is pretty senseless.

 

[JHE]

the tie-wearing centre-right politicians of today.

If they take their ties off (as the Cameroons did for a while) are they any different? No, of course they are not.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't know how useful it is to debate with someone who is never going to concede I've made a good point but will pounce on everything he considers incorrect like a starved dog on a raw steak

In a very general way, I think people's politics should be based on the world they experience around them and that theory can be useful to modulate and inform that a little. Grounding your politics mostly in theory results in some truly absurd positions and in developing your own weird language and this is prevalent among students and quite a lot of the non-student left too.
So I almost wince if someone describes themselves or even their organisation as 'marxist', or 'leninist' or 'autonomist' or 'anarchist'. Theory can be a tool and a weapon, I'm just not sure its useful when it something to bind yourself to, a system of beliefs, an identifier. Theory can help reveal the world to people who use it but a lot of the time I think it does precisely the opposite, becoming more important to people than the problems, relationships, situations right in front of them.

Your last para is a banal truism, one that no one would disagree with - and you neglect to say who you are talking about whilst throwing non-specific accusations at posters here for making it hard for you to explain it.

I'm interested in why you think you've made a good point but won't reply to responses to it. You argued this stuff is important, i argued it wasn't. And so on. But let's do this 'ive been to latin america' one first. Have a crack.

 

[Brainaddict]

Your last para is a banal truism, one that no one would disagree with.

Apart from anyone on the left who calls thems 'marxist' or 'leninist' or 'autonomist' or 'anarchist' or is in an organisation that declares itself as such.

The Latin America comment was simply about evidence that student politics can be important in national politics. You were quite dismissive.

 

[butchersapron]

Apart from anyone on the left who calls thems 'marxist' or 'leninist' or 'autonomist' or 'anarchist' or is in an organisation that declares itself as such.

The Latin America comment was simply about evidence that student politics can be important in national politics. You were quite dismissive.

No, i think that they would agree with such a banal truism too.

I was dismissive rightly, because you failed to develop anything out of your trip - all you did was some totally incoherent shouting and then stormed off. Work out what you want to say, then say it.

And why won't you respond to replies to your posts for gods sake? You posted them, defend or change them.

 

[eoin_k]

Apart from anyone on the left who calls thems 'marxist' or 'leninist' or 'autonomist' or 'anarchist' or is in an organisation that declares itself as such.

You should write a book about your ideas. You could call it The Revolution of Everyday Life. Oops it's already taken. It looks like your idea is not only already a few decades old, but one that was developed by Marxists, autonomists and anarchists.

 

[Buckaroo]

You were quite dismissive.

Quite.

 

[emanymton]

Like juggling, masturbation should only be done in public by the exceptionally skilled. (Mark Thomas)

Masturbation is a lot like exercise in that it is a perfectly natural and healthy thing to do, but in neither case do I want to hear you talk about it or see you at it in park (Jeremy Hardy)

 

[butchersapron]

Some might. I might dislike some things.

 

[sihhi]

Privilege checking for upper class teenagers:

http://www.sherborne.org/news/2010/06/Boys_forge_surfing_freindships_with_Kids_Co

A series of fundraising events run throughout the Lent term helped to finance a trip to Polzeath in North Cornwall for six young people from the London centres together with their support staff. Kids Company was set up by Camila Batmanghelidjh (an Old Girl of Sherborne Girls School). The Kids Company centres provide practical, emotional and educational support to vulnerable inner-city children. Boys and staff from Sherborne met a wonderfully enthusiastic group from Kids Company from the train before we set off to Cornwall in the sunshine with the aim of taking a break to make time to learn more about each other and to develop friendships.
...
After a slightly later morning lesson on Sunday, we packed up and headed back to Sherborne, saying good-bye to the staff and boys from Kids Company at the station. With Facebook addresses exchanged and warm embraces we had all gained much from spending such a magical weekend together

 

[frogwoman]

Privilege checking for upper class teenagers:

http://www.sherborne.org/news/2010/06/Boys_forge_surfing_freindships_with_Kids_Co

i thought that she was all right? bit naive of me im sure but i thought her charity had actually helped quite a few people? obviously charity etc etc but i had heard good things in the past, or am i being naive?

 

[sihhi]

i thought that she was all right? bit naive of me im sure but i thought her charity had actually helped quite a few people? obviously charity etc etc but i had heard good things in the past, or am i being naive?

Good things By taking funding from Barclay's and HSBC the same people who caused the problems in the first, with the obvious proviso that the funders will receive no criticism or additional burden, instead a generalised "uncaring" society (ie ordinary people) are blamed.

Also lying

A poster ad for a children's charity that showed two black teenagers harassing a white man reinforced negative stereotypes and was therefore "racist", the advertising watchdog has ruled. The Advertising Standards Authority also found that another billboard ad for the Kids Company charity that stated "You are right – kids who can kill really are wrong in the head" beneath a picture of four black teenagers was likely to cause offence.
In addition, this ad made misleading claims about a supposed link between emotional development, brain size and violent behaviour, the ASA said.
Both ads were judged to be in breach of the ASA's code on decency, with the one featuring the claims about brain size also falling foul of clauses on truthfulness

Young neglected criminals have smaller brains - not actually true, who cares LOL!

stiff suits left and right, person of colour in centre

 

[frogwoman]

Good things By taking funding from Barclay's and HSBC the same people who caused the problems in the first, with the obvious proviso that the funders will receive no criticism or additional burden, instead a generalised "uncaring" society (ie ordinary people) are blamed.

Also lying




Young neglected criminals have smaller brains - not actually true, who cares LOL!

stiff suits left and right, person of colour in centre

the fuck, thats a bit "bell-curve" esque she actually said that!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Good things By taking funding from Barclay's and HSBC the same people who caused the problems in the first,

The same as Unite?

 

[sihhi]

the fuck, thats a bit "bell-curve" esque she actually said that!

It was the pictures of their advertisement campaign.

The ideas are nonsense:

I am hopeful that the combined leadership of David Cameron and Nick Clegg will build on Labour's priorities to enhance the life chances of children. Self-direction, self-regulation, application and empathy are needed to mobilise the "good character" of our politicians in delivering not only a Big Society, but also a Moral Society. Perhaps they might want to follow the example of Winston Churchill : "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."

Guess who she worked for DEMOS with?
http://www.demos.co.uk/projects/the-character-inquiry
Anthony Seldon. LP's "personal mentor", "a lot of the reason" LP is "like who she is" hence "legend"

 

[sihhi]

The same as Unite?

UNITE are funded by subs, aren't they?

 

[frogwoman]

to be fair i never knew much about her before this thread apart from she ran a kids charity in london. fuck

 

[SpineyNorman]

It ends with a note of disgust at the tie-wearing centre-right:

"Stepping out into the sparkling Docklands night, it felt like I had just attended the party at the end of the world. Televised debates may be new and exciting, but the magnitude of the crisis facing my generation is frighteningly misunderstood by the tie-wearing centre-right politicians of today."

My grandad always wore a tie when he wasn't at work - he was a miner. Some of the blokes in my parents' village wear ties - most of them are retired miners. So the idea of ties = privilege doesn't really make any sense to me.

 

[SpineyNorman]

UNITE are funded by subs, aren't they?

Yeah but one or other of those banks (can't remember which) is providing supporting a unite community social centre somewhere or other. I'm fucking glad the partner in the one I'm involved in is the NUM and not them.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Schoolchildren have been using intersectionality for years?

Only Smart kids at smart schools so you probably wouldn't know about it.

 

[el-ahrairah]

Wow, she might as well have wrote the businessman in his suit and tie/squares.

To be writing this stuff after 19. Embarrassing.

i know. i was a teenage pseud and even then i'd only have used that expression knowingly

 

[el-ahrairah]

i thought that she was all right? bit naive of me im sure but i thought her charity had actually helped quite a few people? obviously charity etc etc but i had heard good things in the past, or am i being naive?

she is alright, by liberal standards. [damned with faint praise]


not to be trusted from a socialist viewpoint to my mind.

 

[el-ahrairah]

My grandad always wore a tie when he wasn't at work - he was a miner. Some of the blokes in my parents' village wear ties - most of them are retired miners. So the idea of ties = privilege doesn't really make any sense to me.

aye, my grandad was never seen without a tie. he was a tube driver all his life and a staunch labourite unionist.

 

[J Ed]

I had no idea that kids in private schools were doing intersectionality. Absolutely surreal stuff.

Seems like the theoretical equivalent of the private school trips to the third world to paint school buildings or whatever.