Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[sihhi]

MIM also held the unusual position that all sex under patriarchy is rape due to power relations in patriarchal society. They have drawn on the theoretical works of feminist author Catharine MacKinnon in coming to this analysis.​

what the fucking fuck???

A Bug's Life" is primarily a negative example to budding proletarian artists, because our art should take a definite, proletarian class stand. "A Bug's Life" fails to do this. It does not connect its abstract condemnation of feudalism and exploitation with the concrete reality that u.$. imperialism is the main supporter of feudalism and the biggest exploiter.

Another problem with "A Bug's Life:" It actively works to reduce the attention span of those who watch it. This is a problem with much modern programming (and modern children's programming in particular.) We believe youth can and must concentrate and think about issues in depth.

 

[frogwoman]

jesus christ, how can they get this shit out of something like a bug's life?

 

[sihhi]

It's certainly a tactic. When a particular Sheffield ex-SWP ISN member disagrees with someone he will accuse the person he is disagreeing with of being homophobic (particularly amusing when that person is gay) and then if the person isn't removed then he will accuse whoever is in charge of the space of not providing a safe space. Anyone who contests this tactic is homophobic for not agreeing with an "oppressed comrade".

How is this ever going to work?

Glaberman:

reject the idea that nothing can happen until white workers are no longer racist. I don’t know what anybody thinks the Russian workers in 1917 were. They were sexist. They were nationalist. A lot of them were under the thumb of the church. But they made a goddamn revolution that began to change them. Whether there’s a social explosion or not doesn’t depend on any formal attitudes or supporting this particular organisation or that particular organisation.

If 'within the movement', person Y(oppressor stamp) gets removed for not agreeing with X(oppressed stamp) where will Y ever have her or his ideas (assuming they are homophobic/sexist/racist) properly challenged within common struggle. It'll be just a case of wait for capitalism to force us together by moving around permit workers as and when it wants, sell us all Chinese New Year dragons and popularise gay subculture sex tools.

 

[frogwoman]

It'll be just a case of wait for capitalism to force us together by moving around permit workers as and when it wants, sell us all Chinese New Year dragons and popularise gay subculture sex tools.

Sorry but

 

[cesare]

jesus christ, how can they get this shit out of something like a bug's life?

But to balance it out a bit - I don't think there's any harm in just casually mentioning to your small daughter that it's nice that the beast's behaviour was cured by love but that's just a fairytale ending.

 

[DotCommunist]

If they made a disney version of Bluebeard, now there would be something to point out the dodginess of

 

[sihhi]

Durruti worked in Paris as a mechanic

Full fathom with the ultra-left's most famous guerrilla leader at a year 2 undergraduate middle-class but anti-fees mixed race student in mainland Britain.


In spite of apparent histrionics:

1. Lee Jasper still being invited as speaker (not observer or reporter) to black sections for NUS in 2013 is eroding any real autonomism. It is not working-class black students defining their own needs by themselves, but certain types following the dead weight of an established pattern of 'black sections within the Labour Party' politics.

Now to discuss the role of a guest speaker at this event who has publicly attacked both myself and a fellow delegate for simply criticising his speech. Might I add, he was not even tagged in the original tweet, he was definitely in the mood for a fight. How infantile for a man in his 50′s. Lee Jasper has done a lot for the Black Students movement, there is no doubt about that. However, his speech became very provocative and upset me with his anti-white stance. I do not accept -as someone of dual heritage- that all white people are trying to oppress us.

1a. General odd belittling stuff from him:

To suggest otherwise is angry and unhelpful. He also frequently used patronising terms such as ‘girls’ when referring to women and ‘the gays’ when referring to the LGBT community. I felt persecuted and bullied by this speaker and it is embarrassing for him that he cannot accept a little criticism from those who said it was awkward for them when he was shouting his aggressive anti-white rhetoric.

2. Pushing acceptance of UAF on the basis of Doreen Lawrence (a black woman)'s participation:

I attempted to hold a debate on the fact that UAF was included in the motion. This was after Aaron failed to acknowledge that Black female students were being forced to chose between parts of themselves. He insinuated that because Doreen Lawrence was the chair, we do not have any right to criticise the rape apologists within the movement. Sorry, but no!

3. An apparently judgmental form of colourism:-

Malia was challenged for sharing best practice with fellow Black Students (something which we really need). Apparently being North African excludes her from being able to give advice.

with the suggestion that the black section is picking on its paler members on the basis of this paleness to hold their experiences to greater scrutiny/more doubt than the more wholly darker skinned:

I will not be told - as I was - that my views were less important because of the colour of my skin. I am half white and I am half black. This weekend has proven what I have previously said which is that no matter where I am I can be the victim of racism from ANYBODY. Black people will challenge me and white people will challenge me. That is why it is important to be inclusive, that is why the anti-white rhetoric was appalling, that rhetoric was condemning half of my family, shame on you.

 

[J Ed]

Doesn't this raise a white backlash or raise white disinterest levels if you have more and more identity paid politics officers and fewer general ones?
What do you have in an average SU? SU chief, SU education expert, SU cultural events, SU women's, SU postgraduate, SU black, SU LGBTQI, SU foreign students, SU mature students, SU part-time students. Because of how things are quite boxed - the minority students often (but not always) get just SU black and SU foreign students plus maybe SU cultural events - so they demand a SU black women's and a SU black LGBTQI officer is that how it's working?

Typically in universities there are two tiers of student government, paid officers which usually consists of (but varies according to almost every uni) a President, Vice President, Welfare, Treasury and Sports. At Sheffield we don't have a treasurer but we do have a women's officer and subject to referendum we will have a Black Students Officer in 2014-2015 These are the full time salaried positions, I think they are on about 18,000.

Then there are councillors who work for a few hours a week (if that) and are either representative (LGBT, disabled, women etc) or departmental councillors who represent the subject group they study in. At Sheffield councillors get paid per meeting to encourage attendance but I think that's atypical.

As far as a backlash goes, there usually isn't a backlash because almost all students are absolutely unaware of what goes on, it's a very closed shop although funnily enough it's a closed shop that involves a number of people who have long since stopped being students or have moved to London to be professional ex-student activists. There was something resembling a backlash when The Sun got banned from the SU shop but even then it was limited to a few exchanges between students and councillors, it's depressing that the one really contested issue this year was over the right to buy a right-wing newspaper.

The exchanges were pretty revealing, rather than trying to explain their reasoning for banning the newspaper while addressing people as equals or explaining why The Sun acted against their interests, councillors used contested in-group language like 'liberation group', patriarchy and rape culture. I assume as an attempt to win the argument through verbosity. Student politicians are openly contemptuous of the people they represent at university so I have no idea how they behave when they are a few more steps removed at the NUS.

 

[chilango]

Waaay back I was a "Welsh students' rep" on our SU council for a year. "Elected" unopposed.

I'm not even Welsh.

 

[DotCommunist]

and what do these people actually do for their 18 large PA?

 

[Delroy Booth]

As far as a backlash goes, there usually isn't a backlash because almost all students are absolutely unaware of what goes on, it's a very closed shop although funnily enough it's a closed shop that involves a number of people who have long since stopped being students or have moved to London to be professional ex-student activists.

NUS politics is a joke. No-one cares amongst the vast majority of students because the NUS doesn't exist to serve their interests, but to be a playground for aspiring middle-class political types with an eye on a future career. We saw the NUS put to the test when they tripled tuition fees and they failed that test miserably.

 

[chilango]

Waaay back I was a "Welsh students' rep" on our SU council for a year. "Elected" unopposed.

I'm not even Welsh.

...then again, a bunch of us blagged our way into the NUS conference years back too. Just turned up, got chatting to the delegates from Aberdeen (iirc) who were short a few people cos of no-shows etc. they gave us the spare credentials. Bingo. Free food, accommodation and voting rights.

Student politics is a joke.

 

[frogwoman]

Stop decent music being played at students' union nights

 

[frogwoman]

free drinks. if your lucky another pool table

twats

but keep your NUS card, you can get amazing discounts with it.

 

[J Ed]

and what do these people actually do for their 18 large PA?

As much or as little as they like, typically the former but not always. It really is what you make of it. Several student officers literally do not bother to spend 10 minutes writing up the report that they are required to write every fortnight while some unsalaried councillors who study full-time often put 20+ hours a week in.

 

[Delroy Booth]

but keep your NUS card, you can get amazing discounts with it.

Apart from the cost of actually getting an education in the first place, which is far from discounted...

 

[J Ed]

...then again, a bunch of us blagged our way into the NUS conference years back too. Just turned up, got chatting to the delegates from Aberdeen (iirc) who were short a few people cos of no-shows etc. they gave us the spare credentials. Bingo. Free food, accommodation and voting rights.

Student politics is a joke.

Delegates from Sheffield Hallam take full expenses (including hotel rooms) for NUS conferences in Sheffield.

They were resolutely opposed to a needs budget for the uni however...

 

[DotCommunist]

Delegates from Sheffield Hallam take full expenses (including hotel rooms) for NUS conferences in Sheffield.

They were resolutely opposed to a needs budget for the uni however...

its almost like practise for the grown ups gravy train

 

[sihhi]

The exchanges were pretty revealing, rather than trying to explain their reasoning for banning the newspaper while addressing people as equals or explaining why The Sun acted against their interests, councillors used contested in-group language like 'liberation group', patriarchy and rape culture. I assume as an attempt to win the argument through verbosity. Student politicians are openly contemptuous of the people they represent at university so I have no idea how they behave when they are a few more steps removed at the NUS.

This is the women's councillor who was part of/leading the campaign:
A very interesting set of points using the experience of black/foreign student sections to press the case for 50/50 delegates from all universities.



What do people think about this kind of specific self-privilege checking

https://twitter.com/lucy_globalmind/status/334025849957400576

1. 19 sa​
   @HannahRudman_ @AlishaRouse @_laurenarcher @Emma_Galley You guys know how to have fun!

​

Lucy Pedrick‏@lucy_globalmind
@HannahRudman_ @AlishaRouse @_laurenarcher @Emma_Galley Sorry gendered language - I mean you lot (or something similar)

 

[chilango]

Delegates from Sheffield Hallam take full expenses (including hotel rooms) for NUS conferences in Sheffield.

They were resolutely opposed to a needs budget for the uni however...

Oh yeah. NUS conference is a grand jolly.

Been two or three times...And NUS wales too. Food, posh hotel and spending money. Most of the weekend down the pleasure beach back in the Blackpool days.

Farcical.

 

[chilango]

its almost like practise for the grown ups gravy train

Absolutely.

 

[cesare]

If they made a disney version of Bluebeard, now there would be something to point out the dodginess of

It's a bit of a digression - but the Victorians had a lot to answer for when they dumbed down fairytales. They're meant to be scary and teach lessons, but in a safe environment.

 

[Idris2002]

It's a bit of a digression - but the Victorians had a lot to answer for when they dumbed down fairytales. They're meant to be scary and teach lessons, but in a safe environment.

Just show your kids Game of Thrones instead.

 

[sihhi]

Typically in universities there are two tiers of student government, paid officers which usually consists of (but varies according to almost every uni) a President, Vice President, Welfare, Treasury and Sports. At Sheffield we don't have a treasurer but we do have a women's officer and subject to referendum we will have a Black Students Officer in 2014-2015 These are the full time salaried positions, I think they are on about 18,000.

I reckon anyone here could do this for the NUS

helping to reduce tensions on campus, in particular around controversial external speakers, improve the student experience for students of faith, and encourage inter-faith dialogue and partnerships.

sounds cool for £31,000 - tell the dickheads to leave public education facilities and go talk in their own mosque or church hall - sorted .

but "managing experience" is required
proven track record in managing successful projects

 

[cesare]

Just show your kids Game of Thrones instead.

Someone else mentioned that to me recently, is it a programme or a game?

 

[fractionMan]

Someone else mentioned that to me recently, is it a programme or a game?

TV Series.

 

[cesare]

TV Series.

Cheers!

 

[Idris2002]

TV Series.

And book. And set of commemorative beer coasters.

PS, it was a joke about showing it to your kids.

 

[J Ed]

I reckon anyone here could do this for the NUS

helping to reduce tensions on campus, in particular around controversial external speakers, improve the student experience for students of faith, and encourage inter-faith dialogue and partnerships.

sounds cool for £31,000 - tell the dickheads to leave public education facilities and go talk in their own mosque or church hall - sorted .

but "managing experience" is required
proven track record in managing successful projects

Speakers with a history of inciting the death of gay people have been speaking at both Sheffield Unis for over 5 years, I've e-mailed student officers about this for 2 years and nothing has been done. Sometimes questions are asked AFTER the speaker has been allowed to lecture students unopposed.

Imagine LGBT speakers with a history of calling for the murder of Muslims being invited year after year!

 

[frogwoman]

No Platform for these cunts. What happened to that?