Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[ViolentPanda]

From the New Statesman, an article by Martha Gill in which she says the feminist reaction to campaigns about rape is 'a knee-jerk reaction' and 'group think'.
http://www.newstatesman.com/sci-tec...sex-little-girl-voice-internet-feminists-all-

So basically a reiteration of the "situational awareness of potential victims" versus "education and of potential abusers" argument.

 

[love detective]

Over there it is more obvious! Sorry for getting the hump with you over it, but you know.. a man of my reputation.

No problem - and sorry to everyone else for not giving advance warning of an incoming in-joke and failing to erect a suitable & responsible package of healthy & safety precautions before it was delivered.....

 

[smokedout]

Just to expand on my last point a little: compare what LP wrote this week with what Martha wrote.

One writes about the tipping point in society to fight back against rape culture and the other one writes about how feminists all say the same things without thinking about it enough to have an individual viewpoint (and I felt the last had echos of some of the posts seen on the Prince Bert thread recently). How can two diametrically opposed views be endorsed by the NS?

I know everyone always says this, but they're chasing traffic. they claimed 1.4 million unique views last month, thats starting to get lucrative, they want to keep it

 

[butchersapron]

No problem - and sorry to everyone else for not giving advance warning of an incoming in-joke and failing to erect all the necessary healthy & safety precautions before it was delivered.....

Please don't be so spontaneous and experienced in the future.

 

[equationgirl]

The content of their columns isn't what this thread is about (what's left of it that is) though is it? We're not going to cheer LP if she says things that we agree with are we? Was it really all about that?

(And ftr, the first part of that Gill piece was excellent).

No, but I if think she's written something good for a change I'm going to say so. I always have, throughout my postings on this thread.

 

[butchersapron]

No, but I if think she's written something good for a change I'm going to say so. I always have, throughout my postings on this thread.

Oh we are then? That shifts it onto the ground of how good a columnist she is rather than a critique of the role of columnist and what it entails. Saying how shit she is is fine though, that's not necessarily related to the role.

 

[Blagsta]

Prepare to be patronised, condescended and spoken down to now your age is common knowledge.

You don't remember what it was like when Kurt died, maaan!

You don't remember what it was like when Ian Curtis died maaaaan!

 

[equationgirl]

Oh we are then? That shifts it onto the ground of how good a columnist she is rather than a critique of the role of columnist and what it entails. Saying how shit she is is fine though, that's not necessarily related to the role.

No, I said I was doing that.


She's written a good article. I'm not saying she's the best journalist ever and she has on occasion written good stuff before. My personal viewpoint is that she's not yet consistently good and that her articles vary considerably depending on the audience.

 

[butchersapron]

No, I said I was doing that.


She's written a good article. I'm not saying she's the best journalist ever and she has on occasion written good stuff before. My personal viewpoint is that she's not yet consistently good and that her articles vary considerably depending on the audience.

It doesn't matter if she does or doesn't though - that's not the basis for the criticism of her and and her bubble is it? Or have i misread the thread entirely?

 

[ymu]

It doesn't matter if she does or doesn't though - that's not the basis for the criticism of her and and her bubble is it? Or have i misread the thread entirely?

Why aren't you having a pop at J Ed? He posted it first and then later commented on it. Surely a much more worthy target of your righteous ire?

 

[equationgirl]

It doesn't matter if she does or doesn't though - that's not the basis for the criticism of her and and her bubble is it? Or have i misread the thread entirely?

I'm sorry, I thought we were critiquing her output. On this occasion I think she got it right.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm sorry, I thought we were critiquing her output. On this occasion I think she got it right.

In thought we were doing something a bit more than that.

 

[equationgirl]

In thought we were doing something a bit more than that.

which is....?

 

[rekil]

Brendan O’Neill, is possibly the closest thing the British Left has to a professional rape apologist, and has no qualms about monetising misogyny in his Telegraph blog.

Men: Monetize yr hotness, NOT yr misogyny. Even you, mekon head.

 

[butchersapron]

which is....?

The role of journalist, and what it requires to exist, the role of specialists and what social-relations they demand (bit of immanent critique there), how recuperation works, how social-movements talk to themselves - not whether something is a good bit of writing that you (not you personally) agree with or not.

 

[toggle]

well, you m9ight not be able to manage more than one thing at a time, some people probably can.

 

[ymu]

frogwoman must be over the moon, it's taken over a decade but she's no longer the youngest pnp'er

But frogster will always be that amazing 13 year old who frankly could rival most of us for maturity back then let alone now.

 

[butchersapron]

well, you m9ight not be able to manage more than one thing at a time, some people probably can.

 

[love detective]

Got the name of that poster who claimed penny was lying about being raped yet toggle?

 

[ymu]

Why aren't you having a pop at J Ed? He posted it first and then later commented on it. Surely a much more worthy target of your righteous ire?

 

[toggle]

Got the name of the poster who claimed penny was lying about being raped yet toggle?

nope.

 

[love detective]

So you were talking shit/lying afterall

 

[ymu]

And the sincerity just keeps on shining through.

 

[binka]

whats happened to this topic? firky trying his best to act like he is grown up and mature now, complaints that butchers isn't arguing with enough people. the last twenty or so pages have been proper rubbish

 

[equationgirl]

whats happened to this topic? firky trying his best to act like he is grown up and mature now, complaints that butchers isn't arguing with enough people. the last twenty or so pages have been proper rubbish

As opposed to you who has clearly just come on to the thread to stir up trouble?

 

[binka]

As opposed to you who has clearly just come on to the thread to stir up trouble?

yes i apologise for interrupting, it wasn't my intention to take this thread off topic

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah, binka you shit-stirrer.

 

[weepiper]

Bloody hell, is it the phase of the moon or what.

 

[ymu]

There is this thing that no one wants to talk about:

OK. Let's get the thread back on track.

Seumas Milne, public school and Oxbridge twat, naive anti-imperialist polemics via a column in the Guardian. Perfectly at home on this thread.

Caught here acting as propagandist and anti-imperialist cheerleader for Julian Assange in only slightly more coherent fashion than Glenn fucking Greenwald. And misreporting the legal process after it had been clarified fully by many legal bloggers.

Like Jones, at the higher end of the quality scale when it comes to political perspective. But I asked him to correct the article in that link three times and he refused twice before ending the conversation and that is shoddy fucking journalism. He's a Hari who can be arsed to do some homework.

 

[J Ed]

There is this thing that no one wants to talk about:

Why do you think that is? I mean, I have nothing really to contribute to criticism to Seumas Milne, I don't know about the specifics of the case but the overall narrative that he's suggesting seems plausible to me. Regardless of his class background, he's always struck me as one of the better contributors to cif, I like his articles on Latin America.

What is wrong with Greenwald? I have to admit, I really like him and have for some time. His work on Portuguese drug policy is great.

I haven't followed the Assange issue very closely, but what are the criticisms of either of these two?