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Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

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Listened to the first 10 minutes of that - my first time.

'The fact of the newspaper as a public organ is already dying, newspapers are going to die within the next 10 to 15 years.'

I don't really see this at all.

People like Niall Ferguson, Simon Schama, David Starkey are a very particular field they can do history documentaries on the media on the TV.

Academia is hardly being moulded with this kind of production as the end-point? Is it?

Will listen to rest later and post.

It was a link to that particular show earlier in the thread that first introduced me to Novara, I could barley get through this particular show so I'm glad I checked out some of the others for a comparison, definitely worth a listen.

/brownnose
 
"I remember marching through our city to support an asylum seeker. One of the great strengths of the working class is solidarity. Conflating asylum seekers and an influx of immigrants underlines something deeply unpleasant.

how much solidarity did you get

and Id prefer if you clearly spelt out what unpleasantness it is your accusing me of as opposed to making some veiled reference to something or other

Have the courage of your convictions and spit it out, youll feel better for it
 
Im quite sure my DNA has got very little to do with my politics , and my mothers most certainly not a republican .

Your father was an IRA man iirc? And no doubt his father before him? And presumably your ancestor Cashelleigh O'Rheide went up to Carlow with Fiach MacHugh O'Byrne, am I right?

well he was . One who committed treachery certainly

It's the "certainly" that gets me. The definition of "treachery" depends where your loyalties lie doesn't it?

Id profoundly disagree . Ive always felt it was mawkish, embarassing, sentimental and ultimately self serving nonsense that was devoid of any analysis whatsoever, bar the fact those executed were regarded as heroes. Which was stating the bleedin obvious by he time it was written . And even in it Yeats is forced to admit he frequently mocked their beliefs as opposed to sharing them.
But later tries to claim he was responsible for them . Self sering and self important . Written in an atmosphere where half the country were claiming they were in the GPO, Yeats there too..in spirit .

It was written when most of the country vehemently opposed the rebellion, a position certainly not shared by Yeats, who basically applauds the motives while deploring the violence. Which is a fair enough view of the matter imo.
 
It was written when most of the country vehemently opposed the rebellion, a position certainly not shared by Yeats, who basically applauds the motives while deploring the violence. Which is a fair enough view of the matter imo.

As regards his views on violence only a few years earlier, when it seemed there was no prospect whatsoever of insurrectionary violence, he was openly scorning his fellow Dubliners about "romantic Ireland" being dead with Oleary - and by extension the Fenians- in the grave . Scorning them for their non violence, and by extension painting himself as a follower of the Fenians - again all this while desperately trying to pork the very republican Maud Gonne . OLeary though was a fenian dynamiter, a committed physical force activist and conspirator . The Fenians were the epitome of Irish physical force . And he was scorning those who didnt follow that example . Until of course someone did .

And the 1916 poem was written in France in the immediate company of...guess who...Maude Gonne . Whom Yeats very thoughtfully set out to comfort now that she was a widow . All that stuff about moorcocks and hens..stone of the heart...all it was about was when was she going to let him ride her, and worrying she might sacrifice her carnal needs for attachment to republicanism . It was all about him and his cock , Not patriotism or republicanism.

And the bit


I write it out in a verse—

Its him proclaiming himself as the man who conferred greatness on them . Its all about him .

Maud Gonne told him the poem was a load of shite btw


and he made sure it wasnt published until years later because he was worried about losing his hoity toity upper class contacts and his British government pension . He only published it years later when there was sufficient concern on Irish victimhood within the English bougouisie.

Maud Gonne knew him well and what his motivations were for writing it , herslef and her husband being part of its subject matter. And when she was telling him it was an shite poem she knew what she was talking about and what it was really about . And what he was about .
 
"I remember marching through our city to support an asylum seeker. One of the great strengths of the working class is solidarity. Conflating asylum seekers and an influx of immigrants underlines something deeply unpleasant.

well done, youve just copped onto the fact its not all that bright to call someone a racist for pointing out if working class people talk to the left about immigration concerns they immediately get branded a racist .

marvellous
 
As regards his views on violence only a few years earlier, when it seemed there was no prospect whatsoever of insurrectionary violence, he was openly scorning his fellow Dubliners about "romantic Ireland" being dead with Oleary - and by extension the Fenians- in the grave . Scorning them for their non violence, and by extension painting himself as a follower of the Fenians - again all this while desperately trying to pork the very republican Maud Gonne . OLeary though was a fenian dynamiter, a committed physical force activist and conspirator . The Fenians were the epitome of Irish physical force . And he was scorning those who didnt follow that example . Until of course someone did .

He was conflicted and ambivalent about his politics, as any rational observer of the Irish scene would have been. You should wish that more of your countrymen were more ambivalent and less certain in their opinions.

And the 1916 poem was written in France in the immediate company of...guess who...Maude Gonne . Whom Yeats very thoughtfully set out to comfort now that she was a widow . All that stuff about moorcocks and hens..stone of the heart...all it was about was when was she going to let him ride her, and worrying she might sacrifice her carnal needs for attachment to republicanism . It was all about him and his cock , Not patriotism or republicanism.

It was about both. He did have difficulty separating his goal of shagging Maud Gonne from his aim of getting the Brits out. But the moorhens and that represent the changing historical circumstances, while the stone is republicanism, and the "stone of the heart" is physical force republicanism (as well as Maud Gonne's refusal to shag him).

Maud Gonne told him the poem was a load of shite btw

She never did have taste. John MacBride I ask you.
 
Crabapple is making a new project: "Because I say everything way in advance, and because its late at night. My next giant art show is about The Internet. I'll kickstart it"
But is unsure what level of art investment deserves what product -
"Question for my kickstarter backers- if I did another kickstarter for an art show, what rewards would you like to see?"
 
do we all need to post pics of ourselves to prove otherwise :D
Remember, we've already established that she thinks you can't be w/c and dress nice or have a nice car, you must live in some crack-hovel and have mud and old fish in your hair or something:

There are more interesting questions – such as why a man who claims to be an authentic, representative voice of “working class” Britain turns up to a meeting in a shiny new BMW 1 series with leather seats, kitted out from top to toe in designer sports gear and reeking of posh cologne.
 
Butchers, for example,is a fine figure of a man:

Roland.jpg
 
Lezard - still a prick:

Outside the Tube, I was nearly knocked over by the wind. Is Cameron in control of the skies? Nicholas Lezard's "Down and Out" column.

Talking of bad language, my revelation last week that I stamped on a mouse inspired someone to address me on Twitter with The Rudest Word. I don’t know. A quarter of a century in journalism with many strong opinions delivered along the way and the first time I get called a see-you-next-Tuesday is because I flatten a mouse. I ask you. Let me inform whoever hides behind their chosen pseudonym that (a) I don’t have a back garden to release any mice into and it’s rather patronising to expect that I do, (b) it wouldn’t have done any good if I had, and (c) not only would I gladly flatten Mousie again, for it turns out he is legion, I’ll dance on his grave singing “Hallelujah” when I do. ...

When the sun fails to shine when you might reasonably expect it to, you feel robbed: really robbed, as if something precious has been stolen from you – time, perhaps. I have got to that stage of life when I am conscious that I am now on the way out rather than on the way in, and each crappy summer induces a kind of panic, rather in the same way my father used to worry, before 2005, that he’d be dead before we ever retrieved the Ashes. (Although I sometimes wonder whether, if that series had been any more exciting, it might have in fact polished him off for good. It nearly did for me.) And I feel for my children, who live in a house where the radiators, for economic reasons, give off about as much warmth as a dog that has been dead for two hours.

It’s not made any better by this wretched, ghastly government, and an opposition so quiet and toothless I wonder whether it’s actually died. Poverty and cold weather go together in a most horribly inevitable way and I had a ghastly thought the other night that Cameron and his gang are actually in control of the skies and the air currents as well, and that making everyone freeze is part of a deliberate ploy to immiserate the less well-off completely, for no other reason except that it pleases them to do so. Rather in the way that we hear that members of the Bullingdon Club these days like to set fire to £50 notes in front of homeless people. Oh, to stamp them out like vermin.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"A quarter of a century in journalism with many strong opinions delivered along the way and the first time I get called a see-you-next-Tuesday is because I flatten a mouse."

The first time anyone has called him the c word :hmm:
 
It’s not made any better by this wretched, ghastly government, and an opposition so quiet and toothless I wonder whether it’s actually died. Poverty and cold weather go together in a most horribly inevitable way and I had a ghastly thought

really? really?
 
really? really?

Yes was it rhetorical? :D. Lezard is a writer:

Nick Lezard said:
“I’m a writer,” I explained. “I don’t even get out of bed if I can help it. And I don’t wear them during the summer.” (Which I concede means that in 2012 they only got about a week’s rest, so awful was last year for good weather.)
 
also knows a lot about poverty esp. how to sort out free alcoholic drinks and just randomly getting £500 from your friends:


Nick Lezard said:
As for specific wheezes, one thing I like to do is sit on my own in the Duke at a table that would normally be expected to hold four people eating its excellent-but-slightly-out-my-price-range food. The guv’nor, Alan, who has taken pity on me and yet in some bizarre way sees me as an adornment to his establishment (I helped him get a glowing review in the Standard), or at the very least an amusing curiosity, will then shove me over to a less prominent table, but top up my pint by way of compensation. This takes timing, but I’ve got it down, I would like to think, to a fine art. If some real high-flyers come in he will even give me a large whisky just to get me away from them.

Poncing off your friends is another matter. Most of mine are in almost the same boat as me, so I can’t. My housemate, Razors, and I scrounge off each other, because even though he earns a fantastic salary, it all goes straight out again to sort out his own tormented domestic issues. He gets paid in the middle of the month, I at the end, so we help each other like mountaineers scaling a cliff that would have defeated the solitary climber. And you do find, when you get divorced, that some of your so-called friends never call you again; and some of them lend you £500 when you really need it and say “pay me back when you can”.
 
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