Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[DotCommunist]

also its not a 'dodgy turn' to be accurate, crabobble has been mentioned on this thread a few times alongside ownen jones and various other commenteriat/bubble/assorted twats.

 

[ymu]

Interesting to be reminded of the Nixon-hate in the context of this and the Thatcher-based sexism thread. If it miaows it might be a cat but sometimes it is a big angry lioness and her mates protecting their brood and you should let them get on with it. Within limits that are not too difficult to work out when the edge is neared.

And articul8 has form for this, and has been told off for this, and is too dim careerist to take the hint.

 

[Bakunin]

nervous titters from the back

 

[phildwyer]

ownen jones and various other commenteriat/bubble/assorted twats.

I'd never heard of Owen Jones before this thread, but my curiosity piqued, I just watched him on YouTube. He's excellent. I've no idea why people here dislike him.

 

[frogwoman]

most of the people commenting on old molly have been women.

i doubt she's the only one involved in this monetisation of everything, the thing is tho i have real problems with this type of "activism"

 

[ymu]

So how long have those two been lurking on Urban then...

The emptiness of rolling news and 24 hour live coverage of often banal events, the pestering of 'victims' and hounding of families and the need to just keep opening their ignorant mouths. The need to fill time with inane jabber and any old self-publicising cunt who is dying to perform for the camera and earn a living off screwing other people out of theirs. And the over-whelming, desperate, need to be loved before they get scrapped for younger models.

 

[phildwyer]

most of the people commenting on old molly have been women.

i doubt she's the only one involved in this monetisation of everything, the thing is tho i have real problems with this type of "activism"

I just can't get past the use of "entrepreneur" as a positive.

 

[andysays]

Fair play, ymu. I enjoy your postings too. I agree there's loads of good contributions on this thread but for me the turn to Molly just doesn't smell right.

I think the turn to Molly is a bit of a mis-direction as well (though I've kind of gone along with it, so am not claiming blamelessness).

Ultimately, she's interesting only as a manifestation of a tendency rather than as a subject in herself, and that interest soon gets exhausted (has already in my opinion).

I don't think it's actually misogynistic, though her explicit use of "monetising her hotness" maybe throws up a couple of gender related questions:

Is it easier for a vaguely attractive young women to do this than an equally vaguely attractive young man?

Is it more "necessary" for a young woman to do this to to get herself noticed/taken seriously (sic) than an equivalent young man?

I'll have to leave those burning issues for now as I'm off to work...

 

[DotCommunist]

I'd never heard of Owen Jones before this thread, but my curiosity piqued, I just watched him on YouTube. He's excellent. I've no idea why people here dislike him.

Owens allright, its his labourite pipe dreams that cause dismay and annoyance I think. He came to prominence through his book 'Chavs: the demonization of the working class' which is a good read if a bit obvious in places. Best bit in it is where he compare/contrasts the treatment in press of the Mcanns compared to the treatment of that Karen woman who hid her kid under a bed for the money.

The level of vitriol directed not at one individual but her whole community was astonishing. Op Ed comment piees going as far to talk of breeding controls for the poor etc whereas the mcanns ere treated quite differently......see also philpot

 

[andysays]

The emptiness of rolling news and 24 hour coverage of often banal events, the pestering of 'victims' and hounding of families and the need to just keep opening their ignorant mouths. The need to fill time with inane jabber and any old self-publicising cunt who is dying to perform for the camera and earn a living off screwing other people out of theirs.

Yeah, I knew that.

But sometimes, being self-critical, there can be a tendency for some of us here (including me) to get sucked into the inane jabber shit as well.

 

[killer b]

Yeah, I knew that.

But sometimes, being self-critical, there can be a tendency for some of us here (including me) to get sucked into the inane jabber shit as well.

it's ok, we're doing this for free. we can talk about what we like.

 

[DotCommunist]

it's ok, we're doing this for free. we can talk about what we like.

speak for yourself, I monetized my sarkiness ages ago and get paid a direct wage from the server fund.

 

[Badgers]

Dunno. Sound's sexist to me

 

[killer b]

you're coming accross as a bit of a snide prick atm badgers. if you've got a problem, tackle it head on eh?

 

[Badgers]

you're coming accross as a bit of a snide prick atm badgers. if you've got a problem, tackle it head on eh?

Sexist

 

[DotCommunist]

Dunno. Sound's sexist to me

that apostrophe is not parsable in either contractive or possessive, sort it out.

 

[Badgers]

that apostrophe is not parsable in either contractive or possessive, sort it out.

Sorry

But next time can you send me a spiteful PM to settle a trivial matter?

 

[J Ed]

I'd never heard of Owen Jones before this thread, but my curiosity piqued, I just watched him on YouTube. He's excellent. I've no idea why people here dislike him.

I really like him too, which is why I'm so frustrated when he tells me to vote Labour!

 

[Firky]

I really like him too, which is why I'm so frustrated when he tells me to vote Labour!

He thinks if the right kind of people vote for Labour 'we' can change it from within. Bless him. For someone as smart as he is, he is stupid.

 

[Firky]

Fair play, ymu. I enjoy your postings too. I agree there's loads of good contributions on this thread but for me the turn to Molly just doesn't smell right.

Your liberal sensibilities are perhaps getting in the way of legitimate criticisms and debate.

Go down that path and you'll soon be modifying your language, "as not to offend the delicate ladies". Also, you're quite new so probably (understandably) haven't read this thread from start to finish, if you had, you'd see that it more of an attack on Laurie Penny and her ilk, that is why there's mentions of Nick Lez', Ellie, Sunny and other bubbles. Couple that together with the fact there is an awful lot of women criticising Laurie and her kind on this thread, then what you said earlier isn't true either.

FWIW I rather naively though Molly Crabapple wasn't so bad but because of this thread and research into her by both men and women, my opinion has changed from - well intentioned muppet into another egotistical maniac who's only left wing because it lets her bring in a six figure income and swan about the globe. Fuck her and her kind.

 

[Steel Icarus]

It's like she was actually anywhere she writes about

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-margaret-thatcher

 

[phildwyer]

I really like him too, which is why I'm so frustrated when he tells me to vote Labour!

That is slightly suspicious.

 

[frogwoman]

It's like she was actually anywhere she writes about

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-margaret-thatcher

i thought she was singing her praises a few days ago?
I'm at work so i don't want to click on any laurie penny crap

 

[Idris2002]

i thought she was singing her praises a few days ago?
I'm at work so i don't want to click on any laurie penny crap

It's crap, pointless both sides are as bad as each other crap.

 

[butchersapron]

Lordy, to sum up: opens with some invented quotes, you're all horrible and nasty style argument, an illustration of how this horribleness came about is given by her talking to a 23 year old guardian journalist on the basis that she was originally from south wales and is possibly the only person penny knows with that background (but still a guardian journo - note, this is not at attack on her, beyond this i know nothing about her), then some more you're all horrible and simple and a laughable last paragraph that attempts to offer some gravitas but looks like a child predicting doom.

 

[el-ahrairah]

It's the oldest profession in fact.

i've always had a problem with this statement. i mean, prostitution isn't a profession unless there's some sort of professional standards board of which i am unaware. and secondly, if we assume that a profession = a job, how do people know it is the oldest. do all sources agree on this? citation needed.

i suspect people want to believe that so that they can pretend that there is some sort of historical tradition to prostitution, rather than it being indicative of values and power dynamics within the society.

 

[Bakunin]

i've always had a problem with this statement. i mean, prostitution isn't a profession unless there's some sort of professional standards board of which i am unaware. and secondly, if we assume that a profession = a job, how do people know it is the oldest. do all sources agree on this? citation needed.

i suspect people want to believe that so that they can pretend that there is some sort of historical tradition to prostitution, rather than it being indicative of values and power dynamics within the society.

If memory serves, historically the three oldest professions are those of the prostitute, the spy and the mercenary soldier. Which is a somewhat depressing comment on human nature.

 

[cesare]

i've always had a problem with this statement. i mean, prostitution isn't a profession unless there's some sort of professional standards board of which i am unaware. and secondly, if we assume that a profession = a job, how do people know it is the oldest. do all sources agree on this? citation needed.

i suspect people want to believe that so that they can pretend that there is some sort of historical tradition to prostitution, rather than it being indicative of values and power dynamics within the society.

You doubt that bartering for sex in the absence of goods predates selling labour?

Professional Standards Boards monetize standards.

 

[DotCommunist]

farmer, mother and hunter are the oldest professions. Everyone knows that. The accepted three need money (or barter) to pay for them which can only come from the real oldest proffesion.

Bet the proper oldest is 'chasing an animal till it falls off a cliff'

 

[Dillinger4]

If memory serves, historically the three oldest professions are those of the prostitute, the spy and the mercenary soldier. Which is a somewhat depressing comment on human nature.

A profession is a paid occupation, so the oldest profession must therefore be a minter who makes the money.