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Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

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made an exception for the brown

I don't get that line, but I think you are wholly right on the inconvenienced angle - as this from the Guardian 'back when it was sort of OK' in 1997 suggests:


Nick Lezard said:
Parking Mad

We do not think enough about parking, which is silly. For parking is to driving as death is to life: a supremely significant moment of definition, of closure, of release. The journey is not over until you have parked, as anyone who has driven round and round a town centre for a bewildering and increasingly surreal three and a half hours trying to find some kind of space could tell you. In this sense, parking is not only like death: it's like the afterlife, specifically the one imagined by Dante in his Purgatorio (which involved a lot of going round and round until eventual salvation). Of course, if you have not yet found a space, you are not in purgatory, you are in hell. It was not always like this.
[... some stuff about the good old pre-1960 days before parking meters ...]
As it is, none of the residents in the adjoining streets had the gumption to get up a petition, so people from miles around flock to my road. Cars are not so much double-parked as parked 'on top' of one another. The effect is of a strangely well-ordered scrapyard, but it makes getting the shopping out bloody difficult, especially if you've got kids. It looks as though we will have to cave in. Indeed, one has the ghastly fear that in a few years' time, every single last inch of tarmac in the country, from Shetland to Land's End, will have helpful white lines painted on them and those bloody ticket-dispensing boxes which are always five minutes' walk away.
You may notice, from the bad-tempered tone of this article, that parking is the kind of subject that brings out the worst in people. In this respect, parking is not like death, which, while often unpleasant, can nevertheless instil noble emotions and some great speeches. No, parking doesn't do that to one. Don't think I didn't notice you going 'Hear, hear' at Sir Wavell Wakefield's outburst a few paragraphs back. And you a Guardian reader. Shame on you.
No: parking is becoming increasingly stressful and a significant factor in the gradual loss of civility cultural commentators have noticed in our nation. (None, until now, has pinpointed the cause. One can attribute the legendarily vile temper of Parisians to the fact that no one has been able to find a parking space in their city since 1972.) Do you ever feel as murderous as when that space up the road you have been coveting is nicked by some bastard in a Peugeot 405, or as despairing as when another space turns out to be some piffling municipal concession to liberalism, like a disabled bay or hospital entrance?
[... dreary pseudo-anguish...]
I wish I could close this piece with an uplifting message, but there isn't one. Parking is terrible. No one, whether a man or a woman, knows how to park any more because no one has managed to find a space for weeks. When one does, the fees are not allowed to be spent on schools or hospitals: they are spent on traffic wardens - 'council parking attendants' - privatised, armed to the teeth. (Traffic wardens have been released to patrol red routes and destabilise popular socialist governments in Third World countries.) One day, someone will find a solution to this madness. But what, one wonders, are these wretched people trying to do? Get us to use public transport or something?

It could be ironic though, so I am not sure, perhaps he isn't inconvenienced at all.:confused:
 
I don't get that line, but I think you are wholly right on the inconvenienced angle - as this from the Guardian 'back when it was sort of OK' in 1997 suggests:




It could be ironic though, so I am not sure, perhaps he isn't inconvenienced at all.:confused:


I was quoting self there- he wants others to take the sensuous risks except when he fancied some heroin
 
Anyway, why are we taking potshots at Penny's housemate? Who cares what he thinks or does? It's enough to criticise the arsedribblings that she writes
 
Anyway, why are we taking potshots at Penny's housemate? Who cares what he thinks or does? It's enough to criticise the arsedribblings that she writes
The over-arching point (I think) is about the effect that she (and her ilk) have on people's perception of Left politics. Therefore examples of her ilk - and Lezard is definitely one - are as apposite as are the examples of her's.
 
Anyway, why are we taking potshots at Penny's housemate? Who cares what he thinks or does? It's enough to criticise the arsedribblings that she writes

Yeah, but he's probably a wonderfully constructive critic of her doings, sounding board and occasional editor. She wants to impress him. Which explains a lot. Someone needs to make her realise: if you structure your prose with a constant eye on the approval of a sneering hypocritical dick, it's gonna show.
 
Anyway, why are we taking potshots at Penny's housemate? Who cares what he thinks or does? It's enough to criticise the arsedribblings that she writes

Well there's a risk that by focussing on Laurie that it will look like bullying, secondly Laurie and her peer group are some of the most prominent people of 'the left' in mainstream media. The result is that people's perception of the left is that of privileged liberals with no real substance.
 
God, I quoted Orang, went to the loo - came back and typed up my reply to find half a dozen people have replied to him!

This thread is hellish.
 
Yeah, but he's probably a wonderfully constructive critic of her doings, sounding board and occasional editor. She wants to impress him. Which explains a lot. Someone needs to make her realise: if you structure your prose with a constant eye on the approval of a sneering hypocritical dick, it's gonna show.
You are assuming a hell of a lot. So much that your post is worthless
 

Suzanne Moore, using a Penny tactic (and I'm sure others of the privileged left)

https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/289464052923654145
Fire walk with me. I asked for solidarity in face of horrendous attacks on all genders. Many prefer to abuse me. This makes me sad not sorry
No apology for her disgusting transphobia on Twitter. She's the real victim here of course.
 
That tells us something about the media.

The clause - the only reference to transexuals - is unnecessary and ill-advised, even though it's playing on a positive stereotype.

I might argue that the stereotype's not entirely positive as pneumatic hyper sexual femininity representations tend not to be.

Or I could just call you transphobic, if I want to be lazy and shut down discussion.
 
Suzanne Moore, using a Penny tactic (and I'm sure others of the privileged left)

https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/289464052923654145

No apology for her disgusting transphobia on Twitter. She's the real victim here of course.

Her toys out of the pram on twitter is bad - but she's not wrong about intersectionality being good theory, and implementable in some ways - but falls down in many others.

I suppose it's the instant accusation of transphobia. There's an argument to be had that those experiencing oppression of one form or another, alien to the person who may have inadvertently supported that oppression, doesn't have to educate or inform when highlighting that contribution to that oppression - but that does lead to rather a lot of heat, light and shrapnel - and no real progress.

If anything, Moore's got the tin helmet on and hunkered in the trench.
 
Even Will Self refers to it as a hovel - the name Nick Lezard has given the home he's been renting in Marleybone since his divorce - so in that respect Laurie Penny was "right":

All this garlic has turned us into a vast army of urbanely middle-class undead
http://www.newstatesman.com/culture...ned-us-vast-army-urbanely-middle-class-undead


Nick Lezard, whom I met at Prezzo for one of our twice-per-lustrum inter-columnar suppers, told me that prezzo means “price” in Italian. Nick is good at languages but he couldn’t be certain whether this restaurant chain was named after the common nounal form of the word, or the verbal one “priced”, which prezzo can also mean.
...
A litre! What kind of a weirdo goes into a chain restaurant on a Wednesday evening and drinks enough mineral water to leach the amino acids from his brain? Well, quite a lot of them actually – the joint was packed, and on almost every table there several bottles of the pricey fizz (£3.95). We ordered crab cakes (£5.65 x2), Nick said he would “try” the lasagne (£9.75), and I risked the Pollo Siciliana (£12.50), which was glossed on the menu as “Chargrilled chicken breast, prosciutto ham and plum tomato slices baked with our own blend of cheese”. In the event, both dishes looked like blobs of cheesy gloop – mine had the consistency and warmth of flip-flops left out in English summer sun, Nick’s was cold in the middle. “Has it been microwaved?” I asked him and he grimly replied, “I suspect not even that.”

Did we complain? No – because life’s too short and I operate on my own form of Pascal’s Wager, reasoning that in the unlikely event that at the moment of my death I discover that the deity is a 22-year-old Slovakian girl in a tomatosauce- flecked black apron, I’ll be pleased that I didn’t. Anyway, Nick and I had become too embroiled in a mild contretemps about salad to bother with anything as prosaic as the food. Nick claimed that he only ever ordered salad in France – “a nice frisée with lardons” was the phrase he had the snobbery to use – while when he was in Blighty he preferred to get down with the herbage in the privacy of his own hovel.
I had ordered a rocket and Grana Padano salad (£3.50), on the grounds that I simply wasn’t fulfilling my daily lactose quota, but in the event my Sicilian gloop came with an adequate salad garnish. Nick, while helping himself to forkfuls of my rocket, said he’d once seen a fly-on- the-wall documentary in which British sous-chefs sat around with their sweaty feet in boxes of salad. Why he imagines their Gallic counterparts could never be guilty of such bestial behaviour is beyond me – but unlike most of Prezzo’s clientele, Nick fancies himself, despite all appearances to the contrary, as some sort of Proustian character, who turns down the Duchesse de Guermantes’s invitations in order to slum it with his friends.
 
You are assuming a hell of a lot. So much that your post is worthless

What a strange statement. It's true I've made assumptions, but in the case that they're all factual then it's a valid hypothesis concerning the state of the universe. As things stand it's an informed hypothesis, supported by all manner of evidence. It's science FFS!!!...and you say it's worthless.
 
I might argue that the stereotype's not entirely positive as pneumatic hyper sexual femininity representations tend not to be.

Or I could just call you transphobic, if I want to be lazy and shut down discussion.

No, it's not positive no stereotype is, but I was thinking how Suzanne Moore would have intended it to come across, I didn't phrase it well. I don't think that part of her sentence was harmless. She could have said 'fair cop' and asked the NS to remove those 5 words and that's it. Instead it's become a storm from a teacup.
 
No, it's not positive no stereotype is, but I was thinking how Suzanne Moore would have intended it to come across, I didn't phrase it well. I don't think that part of her sentence was harmless. She could have said 'fair cop' and asked the NS to remove those 5 words and that's it. Instead it's become a storm from a teacup.

Aye, thanks for clarifying that. She meant it as a throwaway comment, but it got pulled up and highlighted in a way to provoke a similarly aggressive response. Starting a discussion by calling someone transphobic is ending the discussion and starting the argument.
 
it's clumsy a bit ignorant and it seems a strange place for her to make a stand, but its hardly 'disgusting transphobia'

So goes the polarisation of debate. In a time where there are no alternatives apparently, it's acceptable that if you in any way endorse or contribute towards any particular ideology or oppression than you therefore endorse all forma to the extreme and must be treated in a manner as if you have, in fact, taken part in all or some of them. It's dangerously stupid, as it leaves no room for discussion, exchange of experience and most importantly compromise and cooperation. Just lots of people shouting at each other for the weaknesses percieved by others.

Now, you can say a lot about the fuckers who genuinely oppress us at a state level, but they're far too disciplined to fall into this particular quagmire of group flagellation.
 
View attachment 27378

Choose your privilege.

I've got 12 :D

Wow.

It's sort of where some of this stuff is going

http://themasterstools.tumblr.com/post/40107984832/why-be-aware-of-whiteness

I’m a woman, I’m white and I’m British. Growing up, my family had enough money for me to have what I needed, and more. I’m cisgender. I got a great education. Even though I’m queer, I date cismen too. I’m able-bodied, and I’m neurotypical. My nonmonogamy is easy to hide. I’m fat, but I’m the ‘acceptable’ kind of fat most people can get over. Aside from the fact I’m a ciswoman, I get to navigate the world in a way that means the world just works for me. In the simplest terms: I benefit from racism, capitalism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism and heteronormativity. This happens whether or not I want it to.

All women are not the same. If you look at the list of attributes I just gave, you’ll see that I’m not just a woman. I’m a privileged woman, whose class and ethnicity and physical ability have completely and utterly dictated how I experience my society in a positive way. The first step in becoming a less shitty person was understanding and then believing that not everyone is like me. The second step was listening to the people who are expressing the ways in which they are not like me. The third step was, and still is, figuring out how to facilitate change for the people who are not like me. My privilege means I will mess up again and again. I will, consciously or otherwise, project my needs and experiences onto people whose needs and experiences are different to mine. The process by which you try and try to divest yourself of your own shittiness means you have to know that. Privilege means your rightness is reinforced often, and more women like me need to have their wrongness shown the hell up.
 
View attachment 27378

Choose your privilege.

I've got 12 :D

while that list has some value it's a bit daft to put them all on an equal footing and independent of each other surely? "disabilities" ffs. as if they are all the same.

also, something like "literacy" is so related to class anyway, because people who find it more difficult to read and are part of the upper and upper middle classes are able to be given more help, and there is a lot more time to give them help, both when they are at school and during adult life, where they are a lot more likely to be aware of the public and private support services on offer.
 
Aye, thanks for clarifying that. She meant it as a throwaway comment, but it got pulled up and highlighted in a way to provoke a similarly aggressive response. Starting a discussion by calling someone transphobic is ending the discussion and starting the argument.

Part of me thinks Suzanne Moore over-acted in a massive way on purpose, almost as if she wanted to be the centre of a shit-storm like with her Anders Breivik piece:

Suzanne Moore said:
The quiet, almost sterile way in which the Norwegians are listening to him personifies the "muscular liberalism" that David Cameron once spoke of. Breivik's ideology may be difficult to listen to, but not because it is incoherent. Precisely the opposite: it is familiar. This is a problem for all of us, right or left. I wish I lived in a world where I didn't have to hear gross generalisations about Islam and creeping sharia or see an increase in antisemitism, hear fantasies about feminism going too far, and where people didn't feel their own culture to be "swamped". I wish the word "war" wasn't thrown around all the time – the war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on red tape. I wish that everything really was run by "cultural Marxists". I wish my neighbour, who has lived here for 50 years and whose grandchildren tell me she prays for me, had learned English and left the house sometimes.
 
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